Gothamist: 9-Year-Old Braves the Subway System Alone

APOSEC72

Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:17:32 -0500

I rode the subway by myself when I was 9. That was in 1986, and it was a helluva lot more dangerous in the 80's than it was today. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I guess she was desparate for something to write about.

eyekantspel

Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:25:20 -0500

Back on topic- I don't have kids, but I can see arguments on both sides. Important to teach kids a certain level of self-sufficiency, part of which is how to get around on their own. Still, as others noted, it would depend on the neighborhood, time of day, etc. By 12, kids should know this stuff. 5-7 is too young I think, so learning at around 9 is probably right, depending on the maturity of the kid and how s/he feels about it.

eyekantspel

Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:18:06 -0500

I said bicycling in the city was safe as compared to the suburbs, and gave reasons. You can act indignant starrygordon, but your so-called reasons don't fit the facts. Most people riding bikes in the suburbs are doing it in residential areas, not on highways. When you're riding a bike in the suburbs, you can usually hear a car approaching because the sound isn't blocked out by all the urban noise like in the city. Also, you aren't being distracted a million things like pedestrians, lights, jaywalkers, trying to figure out if parked car doors are going to pop open, etc. On top of that, suburban streets tend to be much better maintained than the pothole littered streets of the city. It's MUCH easier and safer to ride a bike in the suburbs - kind of like riding in Central Park without so many joggers/pedestrians. Riding a bike in the suburbs is great- you can relax and enjoy it. Riding a bike in the city is an adrenaline rush, you are reacting to a ton of different ever-changing situations and it's definitely MUCH more risky.

starrygordon

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:48:03 -0500

I said bicycling in the city was safe as compared to the suburbs, and gave reasons. There is no absolute "safe", but one thing can be safer than another. I'd get out the statistics, but I'm sure no one would read them.

alwalh

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:51:20 -0500

I see kids alone on the subway or groups of kids all looking around 8 or 9 on the subway all the time. but they are not rich kids with parents who right columns for the New York Sun, so I guess that isn't important.

twenty3nyc

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:17:15 -0500

#43 I find it obnoxious that every opportunity to bash on NYU is taken. Grow up. Are you jealous? There are rich bratty kids everywhere in the city. Some of us worked hard to get into schools like NYU and don't have trust funds or wealthy parents. Some of us work 25 hours a week and go to class full-time because we have to make up tuition. Some of us are proud of the fact that we can attend a school like NYU (which, contrary to popular belief, is actually academically superior to lots of other places). It would be refreshing if I didn't have to read about NYU's supposed satanic evildoings every other story on here.

luv_guv

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:08:59 -0500

Hell, When I was 9, I was running a DA's office, supporting a wife and family on the UES and paying $2k per shtup to a Jersey girl hooker.

Tracer Bullet

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:02:42 -0500

Isn't the more salient question whether or not he man-sat?

lanciano

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:57:29 -0500

Subway riding is OK for kids at reasonable hours. Obviously, late late nite - 5am subway rides are questionable for everyone. Busses are not always the most efficient way of getting places. I see so many school aged kids on the subway--i was one myself about 25 years ago--i would not have even noticed this kid. however, to whomever said biking was safe. not really. I bike to work every other day and I have to try very very hard to keep myself safe. I would NOT let my 9 year old bike in the Manhattan streets. I say, no commuting by bike in until age 18.

Jen S

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:28:20 -0500

#53 -- I find it insulting that you assume: a. I'd not let my young child go on the subway alone because I don't trust his intelligence (more like I don't trust the people around him), and b. one's a "privileged snob" for being protective.

robingee

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:52:38 -0500

Next up: teaching him not to be a mansitter.

Pinkertrex

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:41:39 -0500

If they are not (intelligent and responsible enough to take the subway), that's too damn bad and your own damn fault for sheltering them.

Pinkertrex

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:36:12 -0500

Oh Puh-leaze. I started taking the subway home by myself when I was 10 in 1994. My elementary school let kids "Out to Lunch" the year before. The City's crime rate has only gone down since then. What the hell is a parent supposed to do when they can't leave work at 3 or pay a babysitter??? You're just a privileged snob if you think that kids CAN NOT take the subway by themselves.. If you think you're kid is intelligent and responsible enought to take public transportation on their own, they probably are.

snappaloosa

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:18:09 -0500

Having been the victim of a brutal mugging in Cleveland in 1989, I can vouch for the fact that the Midwest is not made up of mile after mile of idyllic suburban banality, strip malls, and clueless soccer moms. I would sooner walk through Bed-Stuy buck-a$$ nekkid with $20 bills taped to my boobs than to do the same in Gary, Indiana or Flint, MI.

Alphabet_Citizen

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:17:26 -0500

Re: #32 "I think lot worse things can happen to kids in suburban malls than in our city's subways." I couldn't agree more.

Think twice

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:07:33 -0500

Re: #44 I grudgingly concur. Childhood in a major metropolis does not fully prepare someone for self-reliance in a small town...or vice versa.

JenChungsBra

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:04:15 -0500

Just last week I threw my two-year-old son off a moving 4 train over Jerome Avenue and told him to meet me at the Cyclone in two hours or find a new place to live. I hid a Metrocard in his sock but tricked him because it was expired. He fell for it too, the dummy. Almost like he was born yesterday. When I was a kid my parents couldn't afford the 35 cents for a subway token so I stood on Eastern Parkway and jumped onto the top of the Franklin Avenue shuttle as it sped by below. Then I would kick in the conductor's window and steal his lunch money before skating on the third rail all the way to Playland in Times Square.

Armchair_warrior

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:40:50 -0500

parents have made sissies of their children.

namtab

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:32:52 -0500

Growing up in the city, I started taking the city bus in the 3rd grade, and the subways in fourth. This was normal until the last 20 years. Our Grandparents were allowed to go as far as they could as children; why are today's children expected to stay within 100 ft of home?

JRod5417

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:15:43 -0500

I'm surprised this is such big story since I see young kids on buses and trains all the time by themselves. Also, growing up in the City in the 80s, me and my friends always took public transportation to get to middle school. Kudos to the Mom for not letting the culture of Fear control her or her son's life.

Mott the Hoople

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:05:47 -0500

stop hating on the midwest. first of all, that's a big area you're claiming to have the low-down on. what are you talking about? st. louis? kansas city? south bend? xenia? cleveland? all pretty different environments. also, some people are afraid of things other people are not afraid of. for instance, when i was in the fourth grade my dad said, whatever, if you wanna smoke cigarettes, that doesn't scare me. do whatever you want. learn from your mistakes. so yeah, i started fucking smoking. that might've scared some people. not me. not my dad. in conclusion, post-industrial metro-apocalypses like cleveland or detroit get deserted at like fucking 10 o'clock at night. oh wait, not deserted. what i meant to say was deserted except for the deranged and/or inebriated and/or desperate and/or angry and/or armed. oh and the bus comes once every hour starting at 11 pm. oh and in the middle of the fucking day a gang of fucking eighth graders with the pecs and biceps of press plant workers strolls downtown and picks up a businessman and throws him throught the plate glass front of a out-of-business discount garment store. and then they just fucking run away! why? because the cops are all fucking drunks and happy hour starts at noon! believe the dream. woo!

EastRiver

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:00:36 -0500

Now I realize we got much more of an education in taking care of yourself and respect for the people around you, good and bad. I went to college upstate and about half the kids were from New York City. They were mostly spoiled, obnoxious, disrespectful, and not self-sufficient at all. And it didn't seem to matter if they went to expensive private schools or the public exam schools.

chitchkoy

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:56:46 -0500

My childhood wasn't rough. It's learning about the city you live in. There is no better way to learn about paying attention and reading maps than ending up on the far end of Queens when you were trying to get to Manhattan. Children need exposure to the world not coddled and protected until their 18 and their rich parents send them to NYU and they're too scared to leave the Village.

fileunderk

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:29:42 -0500

I've seen plenty of young kids taking the subway on their own. Especially when I was living in Bed-Stuy. Maybe not the safest at every hour, but I'm sure mom was right to assume that most people are just looking to get where they're going.

brooklynbee

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:26:05 -0500

Wow, I am super impressed by everyone's stories of how tough they are and how rough their childhoods were.

halavais

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:23:21 -0500

What's strange is that this is strange. I lived in Japan for several years, and it was not unusual to see first graders going to school alone on the subway. Kids get abducted in Japan, as well, but I guess parents don't decide to shape their children's lives to fit their own fears, to the same extent. Oh, and take a look at "5 dangerous things you should let your kids do." ( http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/202 )

ladywarfield

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:18:09 -0500

its funny when people say to me, "You grew up here?!? Holy Sh-t!", but we never knew anything was strange about it or different from what other American kids experienced. Now I realize we got much more of an education in taking care of yourself and respect for the people around you, good and bad. I remember the subways as a scary place, but my dad's bachelor pad was in Hells Kitchen in the early 80s....(cue the screeching tranny hooker screams and horse carriages going by; you could close your eyes and it might be 1850). this mom treats her kid like he is a person. right-o.

starrygordon

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:06:16 -0500

Riding a bicycle in the suburbs is not particularly safer than riding in the city. With regard to the safety of bicyclists, the most important variables are the speed motor vehicles are driven and the mindlessness of the drivers, and the suburbs are way ahead in both. There are a lot of people flying on autopilot out there.

ihateallbrokers

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:05:37 -0500

I like how that dude just totally copied an original concept. http://www.flickr.com/photos/elswatchoboracho/2210557198/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/elswatchoboracho/2210557222/

The Edge

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:48:52 -0500

#31 - Yeah, biking isn't safe. Especially for the bikers who just plow through red lights and ride through pedestrian traffic and give YOU a dirty look if they happen to elbow you in the face. Yep. Not safe at all.

EastRiver

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:48:23 -0500

The people who are shocked by this are likely all midwestern a-holes (who work in finance and law), the same people responsible for destroying our city to the point that even madonna and her hundreds of millions think this place is now lame. Do you assholes need to turn every subject into an anti-Midwestern rant? You're so pathetic.

lucyvanpelt

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:24:38 -0500

I had the smothering, let's-keep-you-under-your-thumb kind of parents (I should note that I wasn't a hellion or an idiot--my parents were just uber-clingy). I missed out on so much. I would have LOVED to have done something like this. Rock on, kid. You should take your show on the road. Have Mom drop you off in the centers of London, Paris, etc.

kcin122

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:35:55 -0500

Ive got a question. where are these people from the midwest everyone is talking about? most places ive been in the midwest make 80's NYC look like a silly bitch. Gary, Detroit, Flint, South Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis... you'll get shot i guess im just confused.

runs with scissors

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 06:08:30 -0500

I think lot worse things can happen to kids in suburban malls than in our city's subways.

allenwhy

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 02:42:31 -0500

matty

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:41:40 -0500

Grew up in Chicago and used to sneak off downtown on the purple line at this age. Chicago can't really be the midwest, can it? I mean you a-holes are so blind that we have had so man parallel problems as you have from crime to gentrification that I am actually glad you dipshits can't afford to live their anymore. Go live somewhere that isn't nyc for a change. You'd be surprised.

roe

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:58:34 -0500

I'm another former latchkey kid who was riding the buses and subways alone by the time I was 9. My parents did the same thing--they'd ride the route with me a few times so I'd know it, and then I was on my own. It was fine, I enjoyed being able to get around by myself and I never had problems. Kudos to Lenore. Part of being a parent is teaching kids to be independent and do things for themselves. Her son is probably going to grow up to be a lot more assertive, independent and able to look out for himself than all these coddled, sheltered kids who are wheeled around in strollers to organized playdates until they're in middle school.

zstone

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:56:27 -0500

And I had to walk to school every day through five feet of snow...with my brother on my back...for 20 miles...uphill both ways...in cardboard shoes.

milissa

Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:47:31 -0500

I grew up in Queens and knew the subway so well by age five or six that my aunt who is 13 years older than me would take me with her and her friends into the city so they wouldn't get lost. This mom hasn't done anything wrong, if anything she should be applauded.

Toby von Meistersinger

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:39:01 -0500

When I was about that age I was taking the train to Baltimore. So the subway is nothing.

sikantis

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:19:15 -0500

There are always two sides. The parents want to protect their children and give them at the same time life experience. Who isn't a parent doesn't know how difficult this decision is. Finally it depends on the child, is he or she mature enough and understands the rules of behavior?

Jen S

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:16:28 -0500

I'm not from the Midwest, and I would never let my 9-year-old-child go anywhere alone in the city. In the burbs, yes. But here, I'd be sticking to that kid until he's 15.

Armchair_warrior

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:46:06 -0500

i'm from a working class family. grew up 80's in ny. i rode the subways when i was 9 with a bunch of same age friends. its not as shocking as you think kids do it alot.

west side Michael

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:54:28 -0500

It really depends on the character of the child I grew up more than 6 decades ago on 2nd Avenue and the east 70's before the hi rises and played all day in the neighborhood.However My Parents would never let me ride the subway at age 9. I started riding subways alone at age 12.

starrygordon

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:45:24 -0500

Lenore Skenazy deserves a medal for trying to reverse The Fear. But The Fear will not be easily reversed; too many people have an investment in it. I thank God I grew up before the triumph of The Fear.

jaja007

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:44:31 -0500

it's like yuppie Sparta

bornbrednewyorker

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:30:34 -0500

I was a latchkey kid from the age of 6 (in the 60's). Today I can't imagine anyone under 10 being one. Times have changed.

sj

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:44:25 -0500

This mom is the best! I thank her for being smart enough to realize that all the fear propogated by the media is by and large sensational bullshit and that by and large the world is a safe place to be. My bet is that this kid is going to grow up to be very well-adjusted and successful because his parents are actually doing what parents are supposed to do: help the kid gain life experience so they can survive in the world on their on. Forcing their kids to stay inside all day and play video games because they're afraid of some phantom child molester isn't gonna cut it.

cgee

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:40:23 -0500

@Hoover, Me too! I grew up in Woodhaven, which for you midwesterners is in southeastern Queens, bounded by Cypress Hills, Ozone Park, Richmond Hill, and Forest Park. I lived right off Jamaica Avenue, the location of the El (J train). Starting in approx. 6th Grade, I began to realize that the local branch libraries were not very useful for my school projects. The Queens Library system is made up of about 60 little neighborhood branches, all of which are really too small to be of any use other than as pickup points for bestselling novels. The Central Library on Merrick Boulevard, on the other hand, was amazing, plus it was open on weekends. The Mid-Manhattan Branch of the NYPL was also a winner. So at around 10 years old, I began taking the J train to Jamaica and J and Lex trains to Manhattan on a regular basis. This was 1977. Some of you know what NYC was like back then. I started attending high school in Manhattan (Regis) in 1980, again taking the J and Lex trains, three months after a graduating senior had been shot to death by muggers on his way home from the prom. While my parents were not thrilled with my riding the subway at a young age, they understood the necessity, and never thought to bar my use of the system. Why the uproar over something similar now, at a time during which the subway is far cleaner and safer than it was back in the 70s and early 80s?

nivek

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:32:10 -0500

I took the train myself when I was 12. Since I had been taking the train with my parents anyway, I knew how to get around. I guess the reason people are so shocked is because the kid hasn't entered middle school yet, or they don't actually use the subway.

babyhitler

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:59:21 -0500

I didn't ever take the subway by myself until I was 15 and this was during the Koch years. That shit was scary as hell. That was when people who looked like Obama weren't very presidential.

Barbj8

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:57:26 -0500

My parents did the same thing to me when I was a kid. Haven't seen them since.

REALITY CHECK

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:38:49 -0500

9-year-olds are smarter than many people remember. Think Bart Simpson. The kid is fine, no need to worry. The kid probably had a great time. He's having fun with his newfound freedom. Let him have his fun now, before he gets older and encounters a re-routed L-train and gets stranded waiting for a shuttle bus in the rain.

lower manhattan

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:21:41 -0500

That's my kind of mother! I give her an A+.

SP

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:17:41 -0500

"My fiance is from the midwest and finds this utterly shocking and appalling." Yup, just as I surmised.

Think twice

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:15:32 -0500

When I was eight I'd take two buses for four miles through Brooklyn to and from school. First my parents taught me the route then let me on my own. Never needed a ride from my parents for years and years. Any city kid who knows which buses or trains run by their home will know how to get home. Good for Lenore and her kid.

Hoover1

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:12:09 -0500

I grew up in the city during the Big Bad 80s when it was genuinely pretty unsafe, and I was commuting to and from school on public transportation starting when I was around 9 or 10. My fiance is from the midwest and finds this utterly shocking and appalling.

Kojak

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:08:30 -0500

I thank this child's parents for fighting the pussification of our children. If I had to ride a train with Patrick Swayze, even I'd be afraid.

Outter Burrougher

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:04:20 -0500

Jen, you might find that the child would be smart enough not to go with you. No offense to you, but if a child is capable of getting himself home, he's probably capable of knowing not to go with any stranger, now matter how good their intentions.

SP

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:57:02 -0500

I grew up here, and my dad used to do similar things: when we went out in the city to run errands or whatever, he would tell me it was up to me to get us home. I had to pick out the bus and/or subway combinations needed to get us back. Once I passed these tests, it wasnt long until I was traveling out to visit friends who lived out in queens and stuff on my own. The people who are shocked by this are likely all midwestern a-holes (who work in finance and law), the same people responsible for destroying our city to the point that even madonna and her hundreds of millions think this place is now lame.

chubbyonekanubby

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:56:47 -0500

More parents should do this. Only the fit survive!

r_friend

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:49:57 -0500

Hey, as long as he's not polehugging...

Dave Hogarty

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:46:43 -0500

I think Richard Branson said that when he was even younger than 9 years old, his mom dropped him off in the middle of the English countryside and told him to find his way home. He credits it as a character-building experience. I think it's a little different in the city though.

TKaisen

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:44:52 -0500

"It’s safe to go on the subway. It’s safe to ride your bike on the streets. We’re like brainwashed because of all the stories we hear that it isn’t safe. But those are the exceptions." Eleventy billion times yes. No reason to need a cell phone either. We still have the wacky things on the streets where you put some change in them and they make a phone call. Kids should still have to memorize numbers.

Jen Chung

Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:42:42 -0500

I think if I saw a 9-year-old on the subway alone, I'd bring the kid to a transit worker/cop.