March 31, 2008
Your Home is Your Non-Smoking Castle
Property owners are not holding their breath for a citywide ban on domestic smoking, like the ones barring lighting up in bars or restaurants, but non-smoking is increasingly becoming a requirement for renters in New York City.
The Daily News reports that while the city's health department doesn't have hard numbers on the trend, more real estate companies are forbidding renters to smoke anywhere on the premises. It's not just rental properties either:
Manhattan real estate manager Jeff Lamb said most of the roughly 30 co-ops and condos he handles have banned smoking or are in the process of adopting no-smoking house rules.Audrey Silk of NYC Clash--Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment--is troubled, "First, it was planes for two hours, then six hours, then all planes; then half of restaurants, then all restaurants. Now, the home."That means the co-op boards can deny new applicants if they're smokers, or require existing owners who smoke to ventilate their apartments or plug holes to protect their neighbors.
Still, The City That Never Sleeps may soon be The City That Never Smokes, although it's unclear who will stringently enforce such ad hoc regulations. Litigious neighbors in a city full of lawyers are probably a good guess.
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And if the state passes the proposed $1.50 additional tax on tobacco, you can bet we will have even fewer smokers in the City. The fewer smokers, the better!
Smoke damages interiors of buildings as well as interiors of lungs.
Non-smokers who get smoked out by their neighbors may have legal grounds to sue their landlords under the 2006 ruling Poyck v. Bryant. And conversely landlords may have grounds to evict tenants.
http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2006/2006_26343.htm
While there appear to be no reported cases dealing with secondhand smoke in the context of implied warranty of habitability...secondhand smoke is just as insidious and invasive as the more common conditions ... Indeed, the United States Surgeon General, the New York State Legislature and the City of New York City Council declared that there is a substantial body of scientific research that breathing secondhand smoke poses a significant health hazard.... Therefore, this court holds as a matter of law that secondhand smoke qualifies as a condition that invokes the protections of Real Property Law ยง 235-b under the proper circumstances. As such, it is axiomatic that secondhand smoke can be grounds for a constructive eviction.
Tough shit, smokers.
I just moved and almost everyone in the new building smokes, even in the hallways. I put foam seals around the doors but the smoke is so heavy I get a sore throat anyway sometimes. Smokers can cry me a sooty river about harassment. It's a disgusting habit that negatively affects everyone around you.
Man, once I finally quit smoking, I felt so bad for all the people I pissed off when I walked around stinking like that. Jesus!
However...the best way to handle this is not through the gov't but through the market. I think that bars should have been able to choose whether or not they wanted to allow smokers or not, and if there was really that much of a demand for non-smoking bars (which turns out there is) then the smoking bars would just go out of business. When you bring legal shit into it it just gives the poor, downtrodden smoker a leg to stand on when they bitch at us.
Every time you smoke, God kills a puppy.
"Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment" ahahahahahahahahahahaha.... hahahahaha.. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... that's the funniest way i've heard of people wasting their time in forever
smoking should just be outlawed at the state or federal level, just like drugs. the health risks of smoking are as bad as, or worse than, drugs. what's the point of gradually curtailing the right to smoke by introducing more and more restrictions, one at a time like this? just get it over with and make cigarettes illegal...period.
I recently realized that New York may be one of the few places where smoking is no longer socially acceptable.
I ventured out to Jersey for the weekend and actually had a girl tell me how stupid I am for not smoking.
i had a huge problem with two smoking neighbors at an old apartment (one below, one next door). it was an older building with lots of old building charm: just enough gaps between the floorboards and old doors that didn't seal so well, so on and so forth. so i can completely understand why people might be interested in this. i think it's completely fair for a landlord or co-op board to disallow smoking on premises. however it's going to be a hard sell to make it apply to folks retroactively (if that's what they're trying to do).
Smoking is just a very disgusting habit. Not only do smokers not care about their own health or the health of anyone around them, they also don't care about their surroundings. Every time I pass a building where a ton of smokers work, I can always tell where they're allowed to take their nicotine breaks, simply by looking for the piles of butts and matches on the sidewalk. That's usually the case even when a building has spent the money to put fancy ash cans outside. People suck and smokers suck even more.
I'm a smoker and I think smoking indoors is disgusting. HOWEVER, i'm not sure how i'm being inconsiderate of the people around when I take a smoke break outside of my office. As for my health, I'll worry about that, you can trouble yourself with things that directly effect you. Thanks!
Thanks for infringing on our rights, New York.
I am not a smoker, and I do treat them in the same manner as homeless people. They stink, they know they stink, I just avoid them to avoid the stink. If they get offended because I do not want to conversate with them, that is their own fault.
But it is their right to do that to themselves. Attempting to go down the road of outlawing because you think it is a disgusting habit is wrong.
There has to be some middle ground on this other than the knee jerk "I don't like it so let's get rid of it" response.
Pharmer:
What exactly was the dumb bint's reasoning?
Last time I checked, I lived in New York City...How did I end up in Berlin 1945? Honestly, banning people from smoking in bars and restaurants is fine, they are enclosed public spaces, and smoking inside them is selfish and gross. Smoking inside your apartment is your g-d given right. You pay an absurd amount to live there, so you should be able to smoke there.
People keep sighting the idea of 'Proper use and enjoyment' of their own apartment, to litigate against smokers. What about the smokers' right to do what they please in their own home? What about if the issue in question is nasty loud sex, should we van that as well because some 'neighbors' say it infringes upon their lives? What if it was a crying infant? I'd like to pass a law that my neighbor's 4 month old should have to cry on the sidewalk or wear a muzzle.
This is a transplant issue (no offense, many of you are amazing additions to NYC). Look, when you live in NYC, even if you run a hedge fund, you live 22 inches away from your neighbors. I can hear my neighbors brush their teeth, and have heard much more over the years. Get used to it. It's close quarters, and it's the price you pay for all the positive benefits of living in Interzone.
I don't smoke cigarettes, but I do occasionally enjoy the pot. Knock on my door and complain! 95% of you bitchy anti-smoking people smoke weed in your apartment, and I know some people who can't stand that smell as well.
For smokers, the writing is on the wall. They all know it. Even in Europe. I grew up here during the 80s and my parents & I would rarely go out to restaurants because of smokers. My mom and I also flew to Germany every summer to visit my grandmother & sister who lived in Bavaria near Frankfurt.
About 10 years ago we wanted to dine at a restaurant in Frankfurt. When we asked for a non-smoking area, the guy just looked funny at us. Now, we should have known better, but we were used to asking over here & forgot that we were in Europe's "smoker's paradise". He then replied to us "outside" and laughed. Today, there's even a smoking ban there.
Anyway, everyone living in my building is a non-smoker and I hope it stays that way. It looks like I may have the law on my side just in case that status changes.
Gromek - Great idea, I hear our prisons have lots of space in them...
You people are scary.
Ahh, the socialists are out to play tonight..
I had a neighbor who smoked and it was terrible in my apartment... oh, and she was 2 floors down!!! Fortunately she was there only a couple of months...
"Pharmer:
What exactly was the dumb bint's reasoning?"
Haha. Apparently, "Everyone smokes. You're a loser if you don't." She was serious.
I was surprised. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that apart from tv.
"Last time I checked, I lived in New York City...How did I end up in Berlin 1945?"
Invalidating your argument with the very first sentence - nice tactic!
I agree with everyone else. Smoking is a disgusting, dangerous habit. You have no right to smoke next to me in a bar or restaurant, no right to smoke next to me on a bus, train or plane, and no right to inject my living space with your smoke.
People with statements along the lines of "You have no right to smoke in my building" are usually the same people with their own addictions to hide.
It's NYC people. Everyone lives on top of each other. There has to be a way of dealing with this.
I am truly amazed the response of the "right" people thinking they have a "right" as to what goes on it other people's domiciles.
I don't give a damn what people do to the atmosphere inside their own homes, just keep it out of my home. I have a right to not have my apartment stunk up by someone else.
That being said, I love you Emily. I enjoyed the pot too in my old apartment. Pot and quite a few smelly cigars. Fortunately I was on the top floor and it didn't affect anyone.
AlpineIllusion, that's actually not a ridiculous comment... at all.
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/1/31
Wow.
So, to summarize, cigarette butts are now way too gross to look at, people can't take the smell of someone else smoking, and completely banning something some people don't like makes it right.
And then you guys wonder when NYC "lost its edge?"
Did I go to sleep and wake up in 30's Germany? I'm a non-smoker, always thought they were nasty, always will. It's a filthy habit and yes in many many cases it gives that person who CHOSE to smoke, some sort of cancer(several years after its given them the voice of Kathleen Turner and the teeth of an English sheepherder).
But what the hell is happening to this city? I hate tanktop wearing, bandana clad tool bags who wear gold chains and don't take that tage off their stupid tilted hats - they give me stress - and you know what - the surgeon general says stress is bad for your health. So I guess its reasonable to ban those bozos. Oh yeah - people who own poodles - arrest them and deport them to Roosevelt Island. You know - instead of itemizing - lets get rid of everything we don't agree with, don't understand, or simply don't like. Tax it to death so it all stops from bothering me!!!
This is not YOUR world, it's OURS. This country is founded on the absolute right to smoke yourself to death if you so choose. Why do you so desperately want to get rid of that freedom?
Oh and HannerHearse - there is so much smoke in your building that after you plugged the doorway with foam you still had a sore throat?? I think you might be mistaken....and your building is on fire!!!!!
I am truly amazed the response of the "right" people thinking they have a "right" as to what goes on it other people's domiciles.
That's the crux of the issue, really. One has the right to do what they wish in their own home. However, they do not have the right to control what happens in someone else's home.
And this is where smoking gets tricky. When a smoker lights up in an apartment and that smoke travels next door, he or she has just changed the environment of someone else's home. Unlike that screeching kid down the hall, that secondhand smoke is more than an annoyance, it's a health hazard. Why, as a tenant, should I be forced to court cancer or asthma to accommodate someone else's habit?
If smokers want to smoke in their apartment, I think it's fair to ask them to assume the costs of sealing their apartments to ensure that their smoke does not affect anyone else. Do what you like in your home, but keep it there.
The smell of people cooking nasty food in my hallway is much worse than any cigarette smoke. Should we outlaw stinky foods too?? If you people replace the word smoke w/ "cooking with curry" would your rational for remain the same?
roe - hasn't stress been linked to cancer (particularly breast cancer i think?). doesn't the screeching kid down the hallway cause stress? doesn't that make them more than an annoyance, but a health hazard?
ban kids from apartments!
If you're gonna smoke take it outside!
btw we don't wanna see your disgusting habit out in public, what kind of example are you setting for the children!? Go back to the attic or basement you trolls!
No, it wouldn't. The odor of stinky food isn't filled with carbon monoxide and other carcinogens. But if that odor of stinky food is coming from a commericial establishment call 311 and the city will cite the restaurant for violating the odor code.
Why is there such a venomous backlash at smokers? I mean, I understand the health issues and as a smoker I try to be as conscious as possible of others, but why all the nastiness? Wouldn't a little civility (form both sides, obviously) work better?
Considering all this negativity is it any wonder why there are rude smokers?!?!
I like the direction of thought that Roe is using on this (rather than the knee jerk response I've been seeing).
Firsthand smoke has been proven to be hazardous without a doubt. Secondhand smoke has incidental evidence after long exposure.
Thirdhand smoke (a.k.a. "nuisance" smoke) has no evidence of any health hazard. Merely being annoyed by the scent of smoke wafting from an apartment a couple floors below is not a solid ground to make a ban. If we're going that route, we should ban other annoying things, such as yapping dogs (oh wait, the mayor already did).