Bloomberg: Congestion Pricing Opposition is Stupid!

Correction to my own comment - the Queensboro leads to streets too. I guess that would leave the Brooklyn Bridge, Triboro and Willis Ave (3rd Ave) bridges to lead to the FDR. Great planning!

Bloomberg is trying to pimp us out. Who cares if the Feds are offering us a lot of money - with a condition like this, if Bloomberg truly were a good leader, he would say thanks but no thanks.

I had a hard time believing how anyone, other than the companies that are hoping for the contract, could possibly support Congeestion Pricing and I realize that it is because there are facts they don't yet know or haven't considered. Please allow me:

1) We are being told that this system works in London - FALSE

Those who drove through that area had to pay the "toll" within a certain number of HOURS and when they didn't, they were fined I belive a hundred dollars (not positive on this amount) but is was the fine that paid the bulk of the money. The system needs a certain number of cars going through to pay for itself and when that didn't happen they raised the penalty AND the fine. (I won't go into the fact that congestion outside of that area was horrendous - traffic where there never was before)

2) They are counting on us not understanding London's geography and comparing it to New York - FALSE

The prohibited area is a freestanding area not bound by highways or rivers - meaning that in London there is an option to go another way - in the plan that egomaniac Bloomberg wants - there is NO CHOICE but to drive in the zone for people who live in Manhattan as there is no option at all to do otherwise. Forcing us to pay money.

For our neighbors in Brooklyn, The Bronx and Queens who want to drive into Manhattan they are being forced to pay if they come into Manhattan - Take the Williamsburg - it leads directly to a city street and gives them no choice and they will be forced to pay this toll. And it is a toll! So nobody will be using the Willy-B. And the Manhattan Bridge also leads directly to a street, so nobody will be taking that either. So all traffic will be on the Brooklyn Bridge. The fact that the ramp to the FDR is technically over a street, will they still have to pay the toll. Imagine the back up with all the cars accessing the Brooklyn Bridge to avoid the toll. The Wilis Avenue bridge will be overloaded as it's a free bridge and it leads to a highway. The Midtown Tunnel leads to a street forcing the toll so the Queensboro will be backed up for miles.

It's more of the same plan to exclude our neighbors from the other boroughs from free movement in what is their city too.

3) They know absolutely nothing about human nature - people will want to get their money's worth. If they have have had a toll imposed on them, they will drive everywhere that day and not just the one stop into the city and home.

4) They talk about air pollution caused by cars which is apparently OK after 8:00pm This is so absolutely ridiculous.

Is there traffic? Of course, we live in a busy, vibrant city. (If you see the ads they're pushing, it shows a street near the courts with two cars on it - like it's the morning after doomsday - which is a case of misleading the public so that it may be a legal case of misrepresentation - the system would not make enough money to pay for itself and then we would be most likely taxed to make up the difference)

And would someone explain to me why they are charging delivery trucks - are they expecting our food supply to be transported on the E train? This is absolutely the most ridiculous idea that these knuckleheads have come up with yet. There is no option for the delivery trucks - let's call it what it is - a complete and total JACK which will make a ton of money for someone's cronies.

What could be some alternative choices to try out and that don't cost upwards of 200 million dollars for a program that will systematically spy on New Yorkers. (Land of the free?)

Here's a great one and it DOESN'T COST A DIME!!!

Let's start with repealing the FOUR HUNDRED parking passes that the Mayor's office doles out to whomever it likes. 400 less cars downtown seems like a good start. We can also take a look at the remaining 12,000 (or is it 14,000) additional parking passes that are given out - many for people other than cops and firemen and let's see if there could be a reduction by a thousand or so. So if 1,500 people don't have free parking where they want, maybe those "connected" people will take the freaking train like the rest of us.

Fight against this classist, corrupt, and stupid plan. The people we elect are either really limited or really corrupt.

Whew! I feel better now that I got that off my chest.

I'm against this.

I am currently living a stone's throw outside the boroughs and must commute in via. car because of my late hours. This would basically make me pay rent on accessing public space where no rent should be due. I spend my money in the shops of nyc which is where it counts.

Don't rob me for more then I already am being robbed for, let me give more to my family, friends, and city businesses.

Phase 1 could have been finished years ago (even taller than the WSB tower) if Ratner & Doctoroff hadn't abused eminent domain.

This new "staggered" development seems much more organic than the leviathan, Dubai-esque, Big Dig that Ratner had in store before.

I too hope private developers will think twice (*wink*) before invoking eminent domain on the grounds of speculated economic development as a public good.

And nobody is ever talking about the privacy implications of this. You realize the govt will know in real time exactly where your car is at all times, and where is has been at all times for years, right?

Want to be England?

I supported both the NYC 2012 Games and congestion pricing, but Bloomberg's pigheadedness, his disdain for compromising with local politicians, undid the former and may undo the latter.

Why not scale back the plan till he's got a working majority to back him up. Then after the fact, he and his supporters (both old and new) can scale it up when greater benefits are foreseeable.

Weiner went on to respond: "Yeah, and you're a big fat dumb dummyhead and you say dumb things and you're dumb."

Bloomberg, reached later, said: "Well, I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever I say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Coming out of diner by the airport, Weiner responded: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, doofus-face, but names will never hurt me."

And you wonder why this desperately-needed, common sense plan can't get passed?

"That is not why people were elected. They were elected to lead."

i generally like what bloomberg does but i didn't elect him to be my leader. he's a mayor & representatives are supposed to represent their constituents, not do what they think is right.

this notion of electing leaders is a rovian myth that bushco has hammered into the american people for the past 8 years as they've expanded executive powers & now other politicians are using this tactic to do whatever they want.

The real solution is to travel back in time about 25 years and sterilize 90% of the people on the planet. All of the problems (and I really do mean all of the problems) we now face can be traced back to overpopulation.

Apikores wrote:

They are comparatively expensive (we are paying $2 each time we use a system created and maintained by our tax dollars)

But as pigheaded as Weiner is being about this whole thing, I think he's right about Bloomberg and the name-calling.

Weiner responds:

"I'm interested in solutions, not name calling. I respect the Mayor, but I don't think the evidence supports trusting President Bush and his cabinet here. In Washington the Administration tries to cut money to roads and to cut mass transit, and then they come to New York City and say they won't. I'm concerned that New Yorkers will get the short end of the stick."

All I know is I already pay a city tax and I don't have a problem with commuters paying for some of the services they use every day. However, the plan sucks for people who already pay new york city tax and don't live within the restricted area.

Quite the opposite, since delivery companies will make up for the toll by having to pay their hourly drivers for less hours, since there'll be less congestion.

What wonderland are you living in? The projected decrease in congestion is minimal. It's a tax, and the costs will of course be passed on to everyone who needs the deliveries, because that's how it goes. Same with the comment about cleaner air... people are fooling themselves. Congestion, along with high tolls, parking and gas costs, already provide huge disincentives to drive in NYC. Most people who commute to work in the city don't drive, as anyone who works here is well aware.

Sorry Bloomberg, I generally like you, but you are wrong on this just like you are wrong to be so supportive of ConEd.

have you guys read anything about the congestion pricing plan? because most all of your (#1,2,5,7,10) concerns are addressed.

Bring back the 9th, 6th, 3rd and 2nd Ave. elevated railroads! I'd ride those in a heartbeat.they tore them down to build new subway lines, but only got as far as the 6th ave. IND. how awesome would elevated lines be in Manhattan?!?!

Congestion pricing is a TAX paid to use public roads paid for by TAXES.

I think it is a dream... But let's play along with the estimated 6% reduction in congrestion through implementation of the new tax. I imagine limited business' that would recoup the tax through productivity.

Every proponent of the new tax i have presented this concept abandons that arguement for "who cares, more money is good."

Its a money grab, pure and simple.

Subways are the best we can do, without pumping gazillion$$$ more into it, like it happens in the wonderful and clean subways of Moscow or Minsk.

For the record, B or D that I catch from Bowery to Mid-Town are always running on time.

Congestion pricing, hurry, we (Manhattan) are waiting for it!!

I say bullshit to those who say there will be less congestion. Even the Mayor's own rosy plan says that congestion would only decrease by around 6 percent, and when was the last time a government projection like that was true? If congestion decreases then it will become easier to drive and more people will do so, thus eliminating almost all the benefit. The only real difference will be that the people driving will be the ones for whom the congestion charge is not an issue, while the rest of us will be on even more crowded subways.

And don't tell me that there will be more subways to take up the slack because the busiest subway lines are already running at full capacity, with no room for more trains no matter how much money you throw at the problem.

Well, Edgar, I would argue that cars are not the mode of transportation of the proletariat because the mode of transportation of the proletariat is the friggin subway, the subway that this is going to make in worse condition. You seem to be suffering under the delusion that Uncle Pennybag's cab ride from his Wall Street job to his UES townhouse is going to be in any way affected by this while the real "proletariat" is trucking all his equipment, ladders, jackhammers, etc on public transit from Long Island City to Midtown and thus doesn't care about congestion pricing. Claiming that the average income of congestion fee payers is $100,000 is a pretty nice figure but without any documentation I am going to go ahead and assume that you pulled it out of your ass. Congestion pricing means nothing to rich people, most of whom never go above 96th street anyway. Driving in and out of the city in the way the current proposals would tax is not a luxury that people do because it's more enjoyable than public transportation--it's an unpleasant chore that people endure because they need to do it in order to put food on the table. I want less cars in the streets just as much as any other New Yorker. I just think that forcing people out of business and adding more strain to an already groaning subway system probably isn't the best way to do it. Maybe a decent compromise would be to instill the congestion fee only on non-commercial vehicles, or, as you mentioned, a credit for low-income drivers and/or small business owners. What's really important is that the money go towards improving public transit--if we're going to make the city more green we're going to have to create a public transit system that actually works.

FYI the reason the NYC subway system sucks is because there's not enough new construction -- and people like #7 are going to be the kind to oppose it.

Hey apikores, that's a pretty silly argument. You're saying cars are the mode of transportation of the proletariat, while Uncle Pennybags rides the subway with his monocle and top hat on?

The average income of those who will be hit by the congestion fee hovers somewhere around $100,000. And now with this credit for low-income drivers, pricing supporters are putting their money where their mouth is.

Your faux-populist arguments have now become even more ridiculous.

blablanyc, those truck drivers will be happy to see that, once congestion pricing is in effect, they won't be stuck in traffic as much, so they'll be able to make more deliveries in less time. Less wasted time stuck in traffic is good for truck drivers.

"Just wait to see how expensive goods from salads, to shoes, to candy bars become below 60th when delivery trucks have to pay $21 to enter every day."

Quite the opposite, since delivery companies will make up for the toll by having to pay their hourly drivers for less hours, since there'll be less congestion.

Congestion pricing is just another way for the city to make money. Do we actually think all the fare money collected from congestion pricing will go straight and ONLY to the MTA? It will probably just go into another general fund like the MTA taxes we pay.

As a Manhattan resident, I can't wait for congestion pricing to go in effect. Thank you Bloomberg!

And rules need to be tighter; no free entry below 125th and fees should be at least twice as much.

Cost of living in Manhattan is astronomical, so why should the air quality be that of some electronics recycling plant town in India?

It bothers me how many people let the Fed's bribe impair them from considering if the congestion tax is a good plan for our city's future.

Thank you nos. 4 + 10! Congestion pricing's a horrible idea. I always thought an elected official was supposed to represent the people (and listen to them). Bloomberg's arrogance never ceases to amaze me. The Swiss might have the right idea...they have referendums on issues like this.

Everything will go up in price! I know truck drivers that are finding more and more difficult to operate with the rising costs. The costs are going to get past down the line to the consumer. Bloomberg doesn't care about New Yorkers. His head is so big and he just believes he knows better than all of us. Refunds for low income workers isn't the answer. This guy is in billionaire lala land. Mayor Michael "Screw the little guy" Bloomberg.

I can't understand how it is legal to charge citizens access to public streets?

From my experiences, this is what makes Bloomberg an unbearable person. He is rich; you are not. If you were as smart as he is, you'd be as rich. Since you're not, you must be a blithering idiot. Now shut the hell up and let the Mayor do what he wants, because he's richer and smarter than you are. If you don't like it, spend a few million getting yourself elected Mayor. Oh wait, you can't. Because you're poor and stupid.

No, jackhole. We hired you to do a job. We didn't elect a principal, we elected a public servant. You work for us. We are not your subjects.

That job is to do what is right, not what is popular. Just because you don't always get what you want doesn't make you a subject.

Let me get this straight. The NYC subways are already in abysmal condition: crowded, filthy, constantly late. They are filled with snotty rich mommies pushing children old enough to walk in SUV-size strollers, panhandlers, and "musicians" howling along atonally to their boom boxes while thrusting a cup of change under the nose of every rider. They are comparatively expensive (we are paying $2 each time we use a system created and maintained by our tax dollars) and incessantly undergoing never-ending and pricey "repairs" (on our dime, of course) that somehow manage to leave the system worse off and more frustrating to ride than it already is (if that is even possible..). And now their idea to fix the transit problem in NYC is to force MORE people to take the subway? Jesus Christ... What about the people who live right above the cut off line? They are going to be buried every day beneath a deluge of people trying to get the few remaining parking spots that don't require an arm and a leg. The only commuters this is going to really affect are working-class people who depend on getting their vehicles in and out of NYC (movers, AC repairmen, etc) on a daily basis. Anyone rich enough to afford the congestion fee probably already lives within the area and thus doesn't have to even think about it. This is a regressive tax in the classic sense of the word and it is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard proposed in NYC. The transit system is obviously broken, we obviously have a traffic problem, we obviously have a problem with crowded subways, and something obviously needs to be done about all these things. Perhaps a way to fix some of these problems while distributing the burden equitably would be to pair a reduced congestion fee (with an exemption for small business owners who need to get in and out the area in concern for their work) with, say, a mild boost in the capital gains tax for Manhattan residents making over $200,000 a year. Then we might have enough money to expand the subway system so that it can handle its current load and the increased load congestion pricing will create. However, the plan as it stands seems designed by Mayor Bloomberg to make the city more pleasant and convenient for rich people living in lower Manhattan by making life more difficult for the middle class. This is why it hasn't passed and this is why many people find the idea in its current form unacceptable.

U think the slow buses are gonna speed up after this congestion thingamajig passes?

Just wait to see how expensive goods from salads, to shoes, to candy bars become below 60th when delivery trucks have to pay $21 to enter every day. I'm not totally against the plan, there just needs to be some common sense with certain vehicles needed for all the businesses in Manhattan to run. Is Bloomburg really against businesses or consumers so much that he thinks they need to pay that much more every day for deliveries? Kind of makes you wonder what his real motive is under the guise of the MTA. I'd rather see $4 truck fees and $21 cab and NJ license plated car surcharges. Cabs and NJ drivers are more of a congestion problem than trucks. Oh and I love the much better service since the new MTA charges went into effect. The L train is twice as crowded every day and horrible on weekends, the G train runs every 20 minutes instead of 10, and now it takes 2 days to clean up vomit, urine, and feces in the stations instead of one. Good job MTA.

And regarding local leaders who aren't supporting congestion pricing because of their constituents, Bloomberg said, "“That is not why people were elected. They were elected to lead.

No, jackhole. We hired you to do a job. We didn't elect a principal, we elected a public servant. You work for us. We are not your subjects.

The tolls will be charged via EZ Pass or a camera system. There will not be physical tollbooths.

I don't know much about this congestion pricing deal, but here are a few things that should be interesting when they get the ball rolling on this:

1. Are there going to be tolls to enter this area?

2. If there are tolls, how will adjacent residents take to this ideal of tollbooths and traffic & noise at the tollbooths?

Good luck....

It seems like a parts of the MTA Capital Plan is based on the expectation of the congestion pricing funding.

It is also funny that Corzine is against it, since he has all sorts of toll raising schemes in New Jersey. Perhaps he things New Jersey should get a piece of the action.

We really need some sort of regional government that makes the Tri-State area one state and upstate and the crappy part of Jersey their own state.