February 27, 2008
NYC Vs. DC Subway Rat Race
It all started with a NY Times reporter-blogger's ride on the DC Metro. The Times' Jennifer 8. Lee spied a poster in a Metro subway car, showing a rat along with the copy (emphasis is ours): "Unlike some subway systems (which will remain nameless), you don’t see rats the size of house cats roaming the Metro. Why not? Because we are so strict about eating and drinking in the system. So help us keep the critters away. Please don’t eat or drink on the Metro.”
Lee bristled that the Metro would taunt NYC about our unofficial mascot, (even though a Metro spokesman denied the ad was referring to NYC) noting, "It’s a little out of form for another city to needle another about our rats," and proceeded to take down D.C., ending with, "City Room will say, sure, Washington’s system may be rat-free, but its subway map also has all the sophistication of Fisher Price."
Oh, snap! Our Beltway sibling DCist took umbrage, as did its readers. Possibly the most withering comment (and there are many!) is from DCist commenter monkeyrotica:
Who the f**k wants a sophisticated subway map? WTF does that even mean? I'm thinking something in an a nice font like Trajan with pictures of sea serpents around Rockaway with a scroll in their mouth that says, "Here There Be Monsters."Ouch, but love the idea of scroll-bearing sea serpents near Rockaway. Anyway, it's a reminder of the simmering feuds between urban centers - and between NYC subway map designs (Kick Map versus the current design).Welcome to Dumbassville (aka Park Slope). Population: you.
And some thoughts on how NYC's subway system stacks up against the world (three words: Twenty-four hours).
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This may be a bit wordy, but the MTA is free to use it, provided they give us a 1 year unlimited MetroCard/LIRR/Metro-North ticket:
Unlike some subway systems (which will remain nameless), you can ride 24 hours a day, don't have stations that look like they are the Dr. Strangelove War Room, have a simple flat fare system where you don't have to fumble with your fare instrument to exit. plus you can transfer from bus to subway and subway to bus for just one fare, and has its own ecosystem complete with wildlife. Stand clear of the closing doors!
i think the rat problem in DC is actually worse than in NYC and their rats are GINORMOUS. i mean, really huge. so you may not see them roaming the Metro, but they're everywhere else. and that's just nasty.
also, they're crazy about enforcing the no food rule, and if memory serves, a 15 year old girl was arrested and handcuffed for eating a candy bar on the Metro. not exactly the bastion of democracy it purports to be, eh?
finally, not only does their map appear to be designed by a four year old, it's actually totally deceptive. for example, the terminus of each end of the red line are within walking distance of each other. so you can't really fault the map for being stupid...
Ummm... our subway system is dirty. I don't see how that's even open for debate. That could be improved if people could manage to, I don't know, not leave their garbage everywhere?
I'm a Washington, D.C. native, but I've lived in New York City for ten years. After zero internal debate, I'll have to side with NYC on this one, and here's why (aka, Subway vs. Metro):
1. The Subway has a $2 flat fare. I dare anyone to tell me in less than 100 words the fare structure of Metro. I've probably got about $100 in Metro fares on various cards in denominations of 15, 35 and 60 cents.
2. The Subway is open 24 hours. The Metro is great if you have kids or if you're an expert drunk driver.
3. It takes about one minute to get from the street to the platform at the vast majority of Subway stations. If you're lucky, you can get from the street to the platform on the Metro in about eight minutes (and that doesn't include the suburban stations). I've actually written three chapters of a novel while on the escalator at the Dupont Circle station.
4. In NYC, you have just enough time to get mugged while waiting for a train. In DC, they hold confirmation hearings while waiting for trains.
5. The Subway pretty much goes everywhere in a logical fashion. I can get from my home in Brooklyn to Yankee Stadium in the Bronx in under 35 minutes while transferring once. The Metro, meanwhile, is routed to go through the center of the city. This means that a trip from Wheaton, MD to Rockville, MD, which is about 6 to 7 miles in a car, ends up taking you down more than 16 miles of track and on 60 minute journey.
6. Sure, the West Side and East Side of Manhattan are a bit underserved, but we're fixing that problem. The Metro virtually skips an entire quadrant of the city (Northwest).
7. The Subway has character and characters. The Metro is a cool place, if you're tripping on acid.
8. The Subway's rats hang out on the tracks. The Metro's rats wear suits and ride the trains.
I've heard Toby's rant about the DC subway before and the Dr. Strangelove comment is as dumb now as it always was. I'll take high ceilings and wide column free platforms over any station in New York. Not only don't they have rats in the Metro they don't have water flooding in through the ceiling no do they have stalagmites and stalactites where the water seeps in.
Flat fares are actually quite stupid in an era when technology has made cash fares unnecessary. Why should I pay the same fare to go three stops or 30? New York just might be the only city that still has it. How long did it take us to get rid of tokens? In every other city you just load up your fare card and go. The machines do the rest to handle different fares based on time of day and distance. Are you afraid of having $0.50 left on your card at the end of your visit?
you don't have to fumble with your fare instrument to exit
Because running a card through an automatic reader is so difficult. Which brings me to another point: Number of times I have received the "please swipe your card again at this turnstile" error message in DC: 0
Trying to take all of the things that are stupid or disgusting about our subway and brag about them is inane. Unless you're just trying to be funny. But I think you're serious. As for the 24 hour service, when the train comes once an hour in the middle of the night they might as well just shut it down.
I'd rather a rat-infested subway system than a rat-infested apartment. DC is a swamp. The roaches are southern-style ginormous, and the sidewalks of even the nicer neighborhoods are littered with chicken bones and broken glass.
Their taxi drivers also make up the fare at the end of the ride. They don't have snow removal, so for weeks after a snowstorm one can spot old ladies climbing mountains of ice to board a metro bus; oh, and their bus drivers have an outstanding track record of maiming and murdering pedestrians by blindly swinging into crosswalks. Ah, yes, our nation's capitol.
does anyone actually care what that hack jennifer 8 lee actually thinks and/or writes? didn't think so.
As another DC-area native who used to commute on the Metro to get to school and sometimes work:
NYC subway wins, hands down. Sure, it's dirtier, louder (much louder), and most of the stations aren't anything to write home about (oh, and it seems to have a problem with heavy rain), but it is highly functional.
"It's ain't sexy, but it works"
in addition to the points mentioned above:
-Express Trains! The multiple-track nature of the NYC system allows for express trains, which greatly speed certain long trips. It's also one of the main reasons the system can run 24/7. When you don't have express tracks you have to shut lines down to do work a lot more.
NYC > DC because...
It's nice not having to descend through three or four circles of Hell on an escalator before reaching a platform.
It's nice to swipe a Metrocard and put it away. Fishing out your DC Metro ticket to exit is annoying.
A rather significant region of DC, Georgetown, is unserved by the Metro. I've alternately heard that its due to the poor geology of the area and/or that the rich folk there don't want riff-raff coming off the subway. Either way, it's a glaring ommission. The nearest subway stop is in Virgina ferchrissakes.
I would just like that add, that no matter who wins this fight, the CTA El in chicago loses. Cause it sucks.
I would just like that add, that no matter who wins this fight, the CTA El in chicago loses. Cause it sucks.
DC is just jealous, because it doesn't have rats like NYC. The Capital has possums; don't even try to deny it.
Yet another DC native (well, Arlington VA native) living in New York chiming in:
NY is better. There are a lot of great things about Metro...but I'll take a dirty, old, loud subway that goes nearly everywhere, has express trains, runs 24h, and runs trains less than 10 minutes apart most hours of the day over the Metro any day.
The worst feeling riding Metro is when you're running a little late for a meeting or to meet someone for dinner or something and you get down to the platform only to see that oh so convenient sign say:
VIENNA 8 CAR TRAIN 17MIN. Ugh...
Love that DC Metro food policy. Every year some guy with cerebral palsy in a wheelchair gets caught eating a cracker or something. They handcuff the poor bastard, drag him off the train, and then have to apologize. That's DC in 50 words or less.
I'm on a crowded DC metro a couple years back when the train stops right in the middle of the tunnel for no apparent reason. The conductor is pissed off and comes on the intercom and says something like, "DO NOT LEAN ON THE DOORS! This train will stop automatically if pressure is applied to the doors. Do not lean on them. This is not New York City."
So right there you have to give the title to NYC.
the dc metro may be clean, but their fare's are gayer than the hills in france.
flat fee works best!
Ok, I've never been attacked by a rat in the NY subway, but I have been attacked by rats walking around in the streets of DC at least a couple times. At least we keep them under ground here!
NYC has one of the best if not the best train routes in the county. You can go just about everywhere on the subway and then transfer easily to the commuter railroads at Grand Central or Penn Station. Taking you from the east end of Long Island to Poughkeepsie to Wassaic to New Haven.
Can you really trust anyone who's pretentious enough to use a numeral for a middle initial? Not only a numeral, but a numeral plus a period. So what does that signify? Is the 8 supposed to be short for something else? 80? 8359?
She's obviously too young to remember the 1972 Vignelli subway map if that's how she wants to ridicule D.C. How typical of young people that if it didn't happen in their lifetime, it didn't happen.
As both a DC native and a graphic designer, I've always found this to be a particularly amusing topic. For most Washingtonians, I think the biggest misconception between the two systems is the map.
The Metro map is a case study in minimalist information design. It's simpler and decidedly more user-friendly—this much is true. But what's also true is that the NYC map isn't nearly as confusing as most Washingtonians believe it to be.
Most are simply intimidated by the sheer volume of tracks that blanket the five boroughs. It's quite a switch from a system that only averages about 20 total stops on each of its 5 trains. But anyone who takes the time to familiarize themselves with the NYC map will gain an immediate appreciation for it. Because it too is a case study—and a considerably more impressive one at that.
As for the systems themselves, they both have their good and bad points. But frankly, Metro really can't compare. The stations, while typically cleaner than any in NYC, are nowhere near as convenient in the grand scheme. Unless you live in DC proper and don't plan on leaving, it's difficult to survive without a car. Most Metro users live outside the city, and have to drive several miles to a Metro station in order to take the train. And that sucks. Even within the city, the stations are considerably farther apart than they are in NYC.
But Metro's variable pricing system is its worst attribute. Coupled with the fact that the trains don't run 24 hours a day, there's really no comparison at all. NYC has a fantastic subway system that allows people to get around the city efficiently anytime they want to, for an affordable flat fee. And the map really isn't that hard to figure out. Even for Metro riders.
And by the way, there most certainly are rats in those pretty Metro tunnels, too. They just like to stay a little further out of sight.
last time I was in washington I rode all the way from the Magic Kingdom to Typhoon Lagoon and not only did I not see any rats, I didn't see any weirdos, either. We had a real nice time.
why can't we all just get along...
and hate Boston?
Fine.
Boston Sucks!
After living in both New York and D.C., I can say that the subway is a much better mode of transportation than the Metro. The subway is faster, more efficient and available at all times. Also, I thank my lucky stars I no longer have to ride overcrowded Metro trains with punk-ass Congressional staffers who wear their ID badges like it's some sort of honor.
Yep, Boston sucks. But their T is better than D.C.'s Metro. Their map is silly but at least it's flat fare.
Boston sucks.
Add another to the list of people who've lived in both DC and NYC - there is no question in my mind which system is better. Everyone above has already pointed out why..the DC metro is basically a joke, the NYC subway superior in every way. Except for the G train. The G train makes me want to die.
Yeah, about that DC eating on the subway policy -- it's also fairly racist in the way it is informed. Basically, if you're white, don't even think about drinking a soda on the train, but if you're not, do what you want.
And the flat fare is pretty key, esp. compared to the Tube and other European transit systems -- they also require you to show your metrocard in order to get out of the station as well as enter, which is a pain.
And a Southern roach (aka waterbug) could eat a NY rat for breakfast...
"Here there be monsters"
I sense an art project coming on!
NYC hands down, just by sheer volume. And how many movies has the Metro played a part in? The nyc subway is famous baby. Also I hate the G train, I have to take it all my life, and the 4 car thing kills me. I've been late so many times becuase of that train and it's 4 freaking cars, and the worst part is they don't even sit in the station for any longer. It's like if you aren't where the train stops when it comes in you're screwed. Sure the conductor might wait for you if you haul ass. Now i'm just venting.
"Here there be monsters"
I sense an art project coming on!
I should clarify. I love the NYC subway system. The 24-hour service alone leads me to pick it over any other without a second thought.
That being said, I do not see why people need to leave their garbage everywhere.
I will gladly trade rats for 24 hour subways, 24 hour restaurants, the center of culture and art, and everything else that is great about NY.
DC does have a pretty subway, but I don't think it makes up for the amount of assholes on the hill, the disgusting segregation, nor the astronomical murder rate. That town sucks. Except the Smithsonian. Can we move that to NY?
Chicago's transit, as a sidenote, is the only other city with 24 hour trains (Red and Blue lines).
It's a pretty okay system, but nothing compared to NY's.
I'm thinking something in an a nice font like Trajan with pictures of sea serpents around Rockaway with a scroll in their mouth that says, "Here There Be Monsters."
Everything else aside.... that's funny right there.
No FLAVOR on the METRO
No FUNNY DRUNKS
NO SOAP BOX HUSTLIN
NO TALENT
NO STYLE MAVENS
NO INTEREST PERIOD.
BLAND, CLEAN, BUT GOING NOWHERE FAST.
NY STAND UP, Be GROWN 24 HRS vs. at Pentagon City tryna work it out.
The great thing about the current NYC subway map (part of its design in fact) is that it relates the location of subway stops geographically. If I know I am at point X, I have a good idea which direction and how long it will take me to get to point Y. On other maps you have to know exactly where your stations are to know how to navigate them in reality.
Can't really beat 24 hour door-to-door service.
miss mess - uh, no.
8.6 mi – about 19 mins
View Larger Map
Not sure why, but the DC Metro makes me car sick. Could be because of the bad braking skills of the conductors.
East River, are you telling me that you want to wait in line behind 20 or more tourists everyday just trying to EXIT the subway station?! They already have a hard enough time just purchasing and implementing the cards, do we really have to make them swipe the damn thing AGAIN?!?!
I'll take my flat fare any day versus the option of having one more incompetent tourist impede my way home.
hi there new yorkers, i'm one of the trolls from down in DC, and i just had to point something out to your poster miss mess here. she (i'm assuming it's a woman) is accusing something in DC of stupidity, but she needs to get herself checked.
the two ends of the red line are closer than they appear on our well-designed map (ask a cartographer, 9 out of 10 will agree!), but they sure as shit aren't within walking distance, unless you define walking distance as over 7 miles (that's as the crow flies, surely longer if you don't walk straight through people's living rooms).
sorry to call you out, miss mess, but don't make assertions about stuff when you clearly don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. that is all, go back to doing whatever it is you do.
Im a DC native, but I find the poster and its snide sentiment offensive.. In addition to having a flat fare (not a small thing when you consider how dang muchMetro costs) and access to most neighborhoods, my goodness, it's New York...
Still, to my mind, the capital of the world...
Oh-the staid, provincial ways of this town can sink the spirit like a cinder block placed around
the neck...
NYC subway > DC Metro > Chicago El > Boston T > SEPTA > the rest of America.
I'm a Canadian who spent three years in NYC (82-85) and 4.5 in DC (well, Falls Church VA from 92-97) and I'll take NYC hands-down.
When I took classes at Parsons midtown campus, I caught my 7 train from Times Square and never freaked on the ratz, but as has been mentioned previously, the roaches in DC have their own licence tags.
Don't mind BART though, but those silly cards with minor change on them make me hurl, eh? :-)
Can't hardly wait to get back to visit NYC and DC in April/May.
I'm a Canadian who spent three years in NYC (82-85) and 4.5 in DC (well, Falls Church VA from 92-97) and I'll take NYC hands-down.
When I took classes at Parsons midtown campus, I caught my 7 train from Times Square and never freaked on the ratz, but as has been mentioned previously, the roaches in DC have their own licence tags.
Don't mind BART though, but those silly cards with minor change on them make me hurl, eh? :-)
Can't hardly wait to get back to visit NYC and DC in April/May.
Actually, the Tokyo subway system has both NYC and DC beat. The attendants bow after they've shoved your ass in the car, and for the most part, the frottageurs are extremely polite when they dry hump your leg.
Beyond DC, I grew up in Philly and assumed that SEPTA was at the bottom of the heap . . . until I moved to Boston. Not only does the T not run 24 hours, there aren't even any busses to replace it.
EVERYTHING stops at about 1:15, 45 minutes before ALL bars and clubs close. Brilliant for a college town. EVERYONE drives drunk and brags about it.
Oh yeah, the green line runs with the frequency of rat sightings in the DC metro. 20 minutes on the downtown trunk isn't rare. Ugh, I've given up trying to use it. I bike when it's not snowing (8 storms so far this winter). I'm counting the days until I can flee.