February 12, 2008
Clinton and Obama Ready for Potomac Primary
It's another Tuesday test of candidates' appeal as D.C., Maryland and Virginia have primaries today. Both the Republicans and Democrats have primaries those three states, but most attention is being focused on the battle between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, who are just about neck-and-neck in terms in delegate totals.
Virginia is an open primary, which means independents can vote, which the Obama camp is excited about since he has done well with independents. At a rally, Obama said, "That's how we're going to win, is to build a winning coalition [of] not just Democrats, but independents and Republicans who have also lost trust in their government, have lost faith in their leaders, who want to move in a new direction. That's what we want. Everybody getting on the change bandwagon, the Change Express."
Clinton goes into the contests after a weekend where Obama won four states' primaries/caucuses and her own campaign manager stepped down. The NY Times notes that Clinton and her advisers believe "she has been boxed into a must-win position in the Ohio and Texas primaries on March 4." Of course, Daily News suggests that this "sounds eerily like Rudy Giuliani's disastrous wait-till-Florida turnaround strategy."
During interviews with the candidates yesterday, Politico found out the following. Obama said the Nicorette is helping him kick smoking, he supports charter schools, that superdelegates should vote their conscience and that Clinton should release her tax returns . And Clinton said there would be no more scandals from Bill, she wants the delegates from Florida and Michigan to count, she's disturbed by MSNBC's remarks, and that Obama is too vague.
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Barack Obama in 2008 = Ralph Nader in 2000
I'm sick of Obama...he's no less contrived than Mitt Romney was...all the blustering rhetoric was fine for speeches 1 thru 5 but now it's completely predictable...you can set your watch to the blunt call and response routines used during his "performances". All it does is highlight how lightweight he is when it comes to real details on policy...all style and no substance. "Yes we can"? No you can't. Don't believe the hype.
Very sexy smile there from Ms Clinton. And yes, Obama IS a pure lightweight when it comes to policy and it comes through in his tentative manner during debates. Speaking of which, Clinton needs to start tearing him apart during their next head-to-head, however in that subtle manner only she is capable of.
Campaign speeches are for inspiring people. If you want any candidate's policy papers, go to their website.
As far as repetition goes, a campaign is like a touring band. You do the same show pretty much each night, in a different place, for different crowds. It's not meant to be consumed multiple times by the same person. But you knew that. You just don't like him, which is fine. But go with your gut, instead of making up nonsensical reasons.
Me, I think they'd both be decent presidents, but feel that Obama's campaign rhetoric is inspiring enough to win over the undecided voters. There's a reason the republicans are afraid of him, and it's not because he's black.
Are you kidding me?! He's toast against McCain...he's the most liberal democratic candidate since Jimmy Carter. Clinton could take McCain. Obama will not swing independents.
And no nonsensical (!) reasons whatsoever for disliking Obama...pure reason. You might be "inspired by the rhetoric" but me, I'm looking for someone who actually knows how to drag the country back from the dark ages of Bush. Not some showman who talks the talk...
At least Obama has the balls and the honesty to disclose his tax returns.
Hillbilly are crooks who are hiding all of their shady deals. How else can you explain their unwillingness to disclose their tax returns.
I still do't know what he wants to change, but I guess if "change" worked for Clinton'92 it might work again this time. Funny how history repeats itself, defeating of an incumbent Bush presidency while the economiy is in recession. If Obama is elected I see at least 4 years of gridlock and non-productive government, which is ironically, business as usual.
I still do't know what he wants to change, but I guess if "change" worked for Clinton'92 it might work again this time. Funny how history repeats itself, defeating of an incumbent Bush presidency while the economiy is in recession. If Obama is elected I see at least 4 years of gridlock and non-productive government, which is ironically, business as usual.
Obama is pretty liberal. But, I'm not sure that's a big issue. He could draw disgruntled ''liberal'' Republicans in a way Hillary can't. Ironically, I think Paul people might vote for him in Nov.
I can totally understand not being swayed by his rhetoric; he either works for you or he doesn't. But saying it doesn't work 'because' he's repeated it numerous times is nonsensical, because that's how year-long national campaigns work; same speech, hundreds of times.
Yes we can. Yes, we can do a hell of a lot better than some rhetoric-slinging windbag. Tell us again how you plan to bring together this, but universal that.
Do you remember a recent candidate that ran on a tired cliche?
Politics is bumpersticker or cliche slogans. ''It's the economy, stupid.'' ''Read my lips...''
Obama polls better against McCain than Clinton.
Meanwhile, Clinton's losing ground, having to loan herself money, won't release tax returns, uses Chelsea to try to sway superdelegates, fires Patti Solis Doyle, her Latina campaign manager.
Clinton cries, she finally found her voice. Pretty sad for someone who's been in the Senate for 6 years as our elected representative. Obama's only been in the Senate for 2 years, and it seems like he found his voice from day one.
do you think a country who re-elected bush to a second term after he presided over the worst terrorist attack in history, anthrax, oil wars and numerous atrocities will vote for Obama? Not only did they re-elect Bush but he won convincingly. All this "Obama polls better against McCain than Clinton" is bullshit! You know a year ago Giuliani polled better against McCain and look at him now. Obama is only winning in Clinton Country, not Bush Country. And Bush Country makes up 51% of the US. You guys are voting for the Democrat Spoiler. Now, it's too late for Clinton, but it never was at all for Obama. People who vote for Obama will ride on unicorns galloping over Rainbows. Obama is not the second coming of MLK but the second coming of Ralph Nader. Have fun voting in McCain in 2008. The only way you guys would have won is if those dumbass democrats moved to red states.
babyhitler supports clinton = another reason to support obama
let me put it to you this way babyhitler. If Clinton is the nominee, a lot of Republicans will vote just to cast a vote against her. If Obama is the nominee, there's a good chance some Republicans won't care enough to vote. Hillary is disliked by a good many people, and despite his pro-Iraq war stance and age, McCain is a viable Republican candidate because he is seen as someone who stands up for what he believes in, even if it is against the religious conservative wing of the party. Meanwhile, Hillary is trying to run it both ways, a candidate of change and return to 1992.
I'll say this again. Clinton's losing ground, loaning herself money, won't release tax returns, uses Chelsea to try to sway superdelegates, fires Patti Solis Doyle, her Latina campaign manager. She didn't carry a single state this past weekend, and probably won't today either. She's already pushing to have Florida and Michigan delegates counted- not because it's fair (it clearly isn't) but because she needs those delegates. If Obama had campaigned there and beaten her, I'm sure we'd have Bill wagging his finger at us just like he did in Nevada about them trying to rig the process.
I'm sick of the psuedo-MLK act from the Junior senator with a mantra of "change" and nothing to back it up with...I cringe when I hear the performance..." what started as a whisper...is now a hymn..." or whatever...puuuhhleeeze...fire your goddamn speechwriter and get serious. If we are to restore some sanity in the white house then we need to hear clear ideas not the continual tawdry whipping up of naive celebs and plebs...
And babyhitler is on the money...a vote for Obama is a vote for McCain.
well, then it looks like more than half the Democratic party is voting for McCain. Sorry Hillary!
eyekantspel: your theory that republicans will sit on their hands to let Obama win is stupid. You think some good ole boys will let a black guy be president? as soon as he's the nominee, they'll get their pitchforks and torches and will start circling up the wagons. I can't believe how many liberal democrats have never been to the midwest. Talk about needing a reality check.
babyhitler, your depiction of people from the midwest as carrying pitchforks and torches against Obama is what's sadly out of touch with reality. That isn't to say that racists don't exist there (and here) but they are the exception, not the rule.
eyekantspel: how about their proverbal pitchforks and torches? You ever been to a truckstop out in the midwest? If you are a shade less than alabaster, you've got problems.
That might be your perception, but that doesn't make you right. No doubt there are plenty of places where whites feel nervous going. I've traveled through the midwest, and you are an idiot to suggest they are predominantly racist hicks.
In addition, even if that WERE the case, well, I guess the Democrats should have nominated John Edwards, so as not to rile people up. Anyone who is motivated to vote to keep Obama out because he's black is probably not a big advocate for women holding office.
Race is one of the lowest cards in the Clinton deck to play, and a sign of how desperate her supporters are. Vote for Clinton because a black is unelectable. I have no doubt that if McCain wins the election, he would win regardless of who the candidate is, although I have no doubt that if Obama is the candidate, the mantra will be "see, we should not have chosen the black guy". The issues aren't race or gender. The issue is change. And, truth be told, Obama is a change because he's a fresh face. McCain is a change because he's a maverick who has crossed the aisle more than once and has demonstrated a willingness to stand up to his own party. Clinton is just more of the same. I can't wait for the whole Bush/Clinton/Bush cycle to end.
EXIT POLLS SHOW 2:1 OBAMA LEAD OVER HILLARY IN VA AND MD, 3:1 IN DC
eyekantspel: you are obviously deluded into thinking that race does not play a part. Hell, look at Obama's race. 80% of African Americans will vote for Obama regardless of his politics just because he's black. Oprah endorses him cause he's black. this is 100% true. It's not reverse racism. It's racism period. People standing on the fence will not vote for Obama cause he's black but cause black people are voting for him. He's galvanized other minorities into voting against him. 75% of latinos prefer Hilary over Obama and that's saying something since they don't like Clinton because of the elian gonzalez thing. Race in America is like this because the "liberal" democrats prefer to be insular and live on the coasts and big cities while the republicans stay in the midwest and south. They just point fingers at each other all day long. There is no compromise. Hilary and Obama are now playing like an episode of North and South. Do you think the south voted democrat after they lost the civil war? hell no! they just cursed us under their breath. Same with hilary supporters or obama supporters when they lose. Whoever wins gets their asses kicked by McCain.
I hear a lot of cynical, scared people on this board. They are scared because they support McCain, but they know he's not going to win this one.
The idea is, if they can convince the undecideds and independents that Obama doesn't stand a chance in hell, well then maybe McCain will get a lead in the polls come November.
Thing is, you're not keeping us from the polls. Turn on the news. Wake up.
Oh, and I'll tell you who's spewing a lot of the same bullshit, it's these sad, cynical, head-in-the-sand commenters.
Obama 08. :D
"Whoever wins gets their asses kicked by McCain."
You made me squirt water out of my nose.
I think you're the one who believes in Unicorns.
This idea that McCain stands up for his beliefs is, in Bill Clinton's terms, a fairy tale. McCain now stands as the guardian of the Bush legacy and has somehow forgot what Bush did to McCain and his family in South Carolina in 2000.
McCain should always be respected for his personal sacrifice as a soldier. Now, he's a crazy old man with a grudge who is bent on getting young people killed and bankrupting America by perpetuating Bush's dangerous foreign and domestic policies.
Obama and Hillary need to link McCain to Bush and, in the process, bury the myth of the maverick McCain.
I supported the democrats, but with their strategy of "all for themselves" they've imploded. Do you seriously think Obama will win without half the democratic party who voted for Hilary? Hilary supporters would vote for McCain or not at all. Same with Obama supporters if Hilary wins. Thereby, rendering the Democratic party impotent once again, even after the worst president ever, Bush. Karl Rove is loving this. Howard Dean is probably crying in his sleep everyday.
I supported the democrats, but with their strategy of "all for themselves" they've imploded. Do you seriously think Obama will win without half the democratic party who voted for Hilary? Hilary supporters would vote for McCain or not at all. Same with Obama supporters if Hilary wins. Thereby, rendering the Democratic party impotent once again, even after the worst president ever, Bush. Karl Rove is loving this. Howard Dean is probably crying in his sleep everyday.
babyhitler,
"babyhitler????"
That name. Come on. You've never supported the democrats, give us a break.
I fervently support Obama, but I have nothing against Senator Clinton and will absolutely vote for her if she wins the Dem nomination. I have no doubt other Dems feel the same way.
You think older women who want universal healthcare and a social democracy are going to support McCain. McCain. Seriously, come on babyhitler.
VanessaNYC: when you say Obama in 08 you mean McCain in 08. I seriously think you are working for the republicans. Why have the republicans not smeared Obama yet? why? cause they are waiting for him to beat hilary. Obama admitted to using drugs before. People do stupid things when they are on drugs and I'm sure they are gonna have a lot of dirt on him. Karl Rove is like "shhh! don't say anything, yet" then when the time is right he's gonna give the signal and it's gonna be a deluge. But it won't come from the republican party, It'll come from a special interest group like the swiftboat group. The democratic party is too stupid, they still don't know how to deal with Rupert Murdoch and his fox empire even though they've been torched by him so many times. fool me once, shame on you fool me 3434343 times and there is no hope for the democratic party. If there was a chance in hell obama would win I would vote for him. at least hilary has nothing left in the closet for her to hide. She's had everything flung at her and survived. let's see how obama does it. It's not always about the best candidate cause Nader should have won in 2000 but the most viable one that can win. Obama can't win. and you'll be in for the biggest letdown come november. obama is Nader in 08 :}
Babyhitler,
Yes, Obama used drugs. Our current president was once an alcoholic and a cokehead (but then he found Jesus...).
I agree that the Republicans will throw all kinds of swiftboat shit at Obama, that's a given.
Don't be so quick to assume that he won't survive. This guy isn't John Kerry.
You know how Bill Clinton got elected? Charisma. People felt a connection with him; they liked him. Obama has Clinton's charisma times a hundred.
If you respond to cynical arguments, well then consider this. The election is, primarily, a popularity contest. Obama is the good-looking, fun, smiley, sexy, quick-witted popular kid at school. Lucky for America, he is also level-headed, intelligent, well-spoken and fair (unlike the current guy in office).
People believe in him. They are registering to vote because of him. The democrat turnout this year has been record-breaking. Republicans don't believe in their candidate so much. They are staying at home, watching the results on the TV, feeling apathetic.
This matters because come the general election those Democrats who registered to vote for Obama are going to vote Democrat (I've never met a Democrat who has voted Republican) no matter if it's Obama or Clinton.
Completely unrealated, but I'm just wondering - with a name like babyhitler, are you a communist?
Loopus, Obama is the most liberal Senator? You got that from the National Journal, didn't you? The same National Journal that said that John Kerry was the most liberal Senator. Really, I think Bernie Sanders, Socialist, could give him a run for his money. Hell, Feingold makes Obama look like a right-winger.
Get over the talking points, 'kay?
Babyhitler, will you vote for McCain if he is the nominee against Obama?
VanessNyc: see, you are completely wrong and should not give anyone advice. you're whole "I've never met a democrat who has voted republican" is idiotic cause Giuliani has been voted mayor twice as a republican as well as bloomberg by overwhelming margins in democratic NYC. How is that possible if Democrats didn't vote them in? this election is gonna come down to attrition. How many hilary voters aren't gonna vote/vote for obama or vote for Mccain versus how many right wing republicans won't vote for MCCain. But the thing is the right wing republicans may not vote for McCain but they certainly won't vote for Obama. A lot of middle Democrats may vote for McCain cause he's not batshit crazy even though he's got some tough stances. In the end obama will lose. And Elderta. I don't know who I would vote for right now. I had my problems with Hilary, I might vote for Obama or I might vote for McCain. I'm just analyzing this situation right now and kind of disgusted with people who think Obama is the second coming of MLK.
babyhitler,
you should stick your finger in the air, see which way the wind blows (wait for the masses to decide) and then vote for the predicted winner because the other guy/gal is obviously a naive loser and you shouldn't throw your vote away - this is a democracy after all!
vanessanyc: i like how all my posts are about facts based in reality and yours are snide remarks that aren't ;)
Not sure if everyone thinks he's the second coming, babyhitler, but I understand your point. There is a lot of enthusiasm about him, and rightly so. But the MLK and the JFK references do get over the top. I think what is happening is that people are tired of the rhetoric of the past decades, whether it's the constant harping about "the Clintons did this" or "Bush is an idiot." Folks are shocked that someone actually gives them words that make them believe again. I hope if he wins that he doesn't end up like every other lying cheating politician. That would be horrible, but not unexpected out of any of them.
Some think he's young and untested, but, he's managed to outmaneuver Clinton and he's working on McCain as we speak. I don't think anyone expected that. He also can get down and dirty with the best of 'em. Chicago/Illinois politics is like the ninth circle of hell. I don't think the Republicans understand what may come their way. We'll see. Keep an open mind about him, that's all I can recommend.
Oh, and he voted again the FISA bill that still contained retroactive immunity for the the telecoms and their spying on you illegally. Unlike 16 other Democrats and McCain yesterday. Clinton didn't vote.
Anyway, good luck on your decision, to all of you. The coming years won't be easy for any of us. I'd rather have fresh air and new ideas than what we have not. It's just not working. We'll see what happens.
Cheers.
WIND OF CHANGE ONLY WIND?
Momentum for Obama's there,
He's up, most certainly,
But lack of grit may bring him down
Momentarily.