February 8, 2008
Brooklyn Toddler Shot by Clumsy Cop
A family had been living in its Mill Basin, Brooklyn apartment for less than a week, when their 18-month-old toddler was struck by a bullet that passed through its ceiling from an upstairs apartment Thursday afternoon. Their upstairs neighbor is 24-year-old police officer, an Army veteran assigned to Manhattan's 1st Precinct, named Patrick Venetek.
Venetek rushed downstairs to explain what had happened. Per WCBS News, he claims he had been cleaning his gun when it fell of a table and discharged. Both Venetek and the father, Justin Porcellini, were present when Porcellini lifted the child to comfort him and noticed that he'd been shot in the arm.
The toddler was treated at Brookdale Hospital for a flesh wound and was released to his parents later that night. It does not seem likely that Venetek will be charged; Porcellini says he fully intends to sue the city. When crime scene investigators showed up at the officer's upstairs apartment to investigate his gun-cleaning story, they had to bring in their own lighting because his electricity had been turned off by Con Ed for non-payment.
WCBS also reports a somewhat bizarre coincidence regarding the address at 602 South Mayfair Drive in Brooklyn. In May 2005, dozens of cops converged on the very same house after a man was discovered dead in his apartment of natural causes, but surrounded by an arsenal of weapons, including a homemade bomb. Neighbors of the quiet residential neighborhood expressed surprise at the coincidence.
Photo of Patrick Venetek via the Daily News
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I know nothing about firearms but I presume that the first step in cleaning one would probably involve emptying the bullets. Am I wrong here?
He was cleaning a loaded weapon!?
What a goddamn retard.
I wonder if the cop will be moved for a desk job for a while.
Think twice - exactly. What idiot cleans a loaded firearm? The only cop I've ever seen do that was on TV, and it was Murray the Cop on The Odd Couple. Felix subsequently picked up the gun and shot a wall portrait of a dog right between the eyes.
If we were to give him the benefit of the doubt by saying that he was just starting and had therefore not yet emptied the bullets from the gun - would it be possible for the gun to fire if the safety were on? I'm genuinely curious about this question, if anyone knows the answer.
Guns, contrary to what cartoons and movies tell you, will not discharge if they are dropped. Especially not weapons issued by the NYPD. They specify certain things like non-exposed hammers and 12lb trigger pulls. This was an operator error. I can guarantee it did not "discharge" because it fell. He was cleaning (maybe?) a loaded weapon and PULLED the trigger. That is the ONLY way that gun will discharge.
Ugh. It's damn lucky that no one was killed...
Ok is it just me or does the NYPD have the same strict standards the military has for enrollment--where basically anyone can get in regardless or intelligence or capability?
The cops by me are all reckless and totally uninterested in their work--the cops at the Giants parade? Don't even get me even started.
Who can afford electricity on a cops salary?
modern handguns just don't discharge when dropped.
unless the NYPD are issuing defective handguns?
yeah, that's the answer.
and bullets don't "spark" when hitting something.
He should have shot himself in the foot and saved the kid some grief.
My biggest concern about this protector of the people is how can someone drink all that warm Coors Light beer seeing that his electricity was off, hence his refrigerator. This is definitely a crime scene, and something CSI should investigate to find out what exactly happened. Or is he drinking at the precinct house after his tour ended?
Not only is it dumb to clean a loaded weapon...it's impossible! Not sure of his service weapon, but if it's the revolver which some cops carry, this is impossible. If it was the 9mm,it's still it's impossible. When cleaning your weapon, you remove the clip (in the case of 9mm), and clear the reciever. These weapons CAN hold a round in the reciever, but even then when you pull back the reciever to begin cleaning, you'd see a round in the chamber and safely discharge it. This is why firearms get such a bad rap, some people are just morons. This cop should lose his job, this is an unnaceptable way to handle a weapon.
1. Would you trust a cop who doesn't unload his weapon before trying to clean it?
2. Would you trust a cop who doesn't pay his electric bill?
3. No to both questions?
It also seems a bit unwise to clean a gun without electricity/adequate lighting, no? Was he cleaning by candlelight?
Nice retarded statement and way to denigrate the military BX, you must be as stupid as your statement looks. People kill themselves all the time from cleaning a gun. They may take the clip out and think it is unloaded but forget to clear the chamber. It is not uncommon and it happens. It was however an operator error and should never had happened. In fact here is an example:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_551231.html
Kind of reminds me of the time my dad requisitioned a bb gun to dispatch a largish rat that had been making itself at home in our kitchen, with a few significant differences: it was a bb gun, we didn't have neighbors and the rat finally found our poison and dispatched its own self. A good thing, since I never really understood how the bbgun was supposed to figure in.
I bet we've all wished, at least once, the kind of aim required to take out a mouse or a water bug.
I'm just saying.
I also think it is unfortunate that the photo the News came up with is probably of some superbowl party.
This is indeed a Mythbusters episode waiting to happen. I would love to see if any scenario like this could successfully be recreated. And that picture is gold!
@5: To answer your questions, no a weapon can't discharge when the saftey is in the 'Safe' position because it physically locks the firing mechanism in place.
What the hell is with all the double posts...I cant comment on someone elses stupid comments and then look like an idiot when I have all these double posts and what not....shit
@ BigL: Are you serious about that crap? I have shot and owned firearms my whole entire life. Cleaning a loaded weapon is inexcusible. First all, how are you you going to get a pull string down the barrel and NOT notice a round in the chamber? If you aren't smart enough to know your weapon is loaded, you aren't smart enough to have a weapon period. You know who 'accidentally' shoots themselves cleaning their firearms? Drunk Hillbillys and Darwin award wannabes. That is no excuse.
cleaning a loaded weapon... fucking tard!
cleaning a loaded weapon... fucking tard!
double posts because of this:
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EmilyD, it is conceivable though that he was cleaning it, then reloaded it, and whatever happened afterwards happened.
I, too, am not buying the "I dropped it and it went off" defense. Even if this were the case, given the weight distribution of both revolvers and semis (although I'm no expert), his weapon would probably land "barrel up", not down and firing into the floor, right?
As mentioned above, guns don't just "go off." Barring extremely rare circumstances for very specific types of weapons (certain types of shotguns I can think of), a gun cannot discharge by being dropped. Most modern handguns have internal "drop safeties" that prevent that sort of thing from happening. The only way a gun discharges is if the trigger is pulled.
My guess is he wanted to practice some "dry firing" and removed the mag but did not remove the round in the chamber. He then failed to perform a safety check, which entails locking the slide back and visually and manually inspecting the magazine well and chamber to make sure that no rounds remain in the weapon. Had he performed a safety check, the simple act of locking the slide back would have ejected any rounds remaining in the chamber.
I don't think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the pistols that NYPD issues have safeties. That's why they have the 12 pound trigger pull and long trigger travel, so that you have to pull damn hard on the trigger to shoot. As a cop who may need to quickly draw and fire his weapon in a rapidly deteriorating situation, fumbling around to disengage a safety lever is something that wastes valuable time and can cost you your life.
The investigators from NYPD are likely to be very suspicious of Venetek's story as they know very well what I just stated above. He may not be criminally charged but he very likely will be subject to some internal discipline.
Look, I own a G17 which is mechanically basically the same weapon most of the NYPD carries. It's a 9mm, semi auto pistol with a trigger pull a bit over 5 pounds. This weapon has both a pin lock AND a drop safety. It won't go off if you drop it, probably even if you decide to play ring toss with it. I've NEVER seen a dropped pistol discharge in my whole life.
@BL
Oooooooh someone pissed in your Cheerios!
Walk a mile in a man's moccasins, friend. That, and read a paper to see that felons and others are being let into the Armed Forces through the relaxation of once stringent standards.
That, and unless you live in my neighborhood, you probably have no barometer regarding what I'm talking about
Those two conditions might prompt you to shut the fuck up and get a life. You're a big man on the internet, aren't you?
Better yet: Why was he cleaning a Loaded weapon in the dark??
@SJ: Yeah, you're 100% correct. The Glock Service weapons have longer slides. and a 12 pound trigger pull, but they still have the drop safety.
if he's still working, sue him,
get the win and garnish his wages.
make sure to get expert testimony from gun maker that their guns are test to not discharge as he said
and to plaster pics of the toddler crying.
the cops i know carry glocks when not on duty... from wikipedia.. Glock pistols do not have any external controls such as levers, decockers, or manual safeties. This adds to the simplicity of use and removes a potential source of errors when operating the handgun under stress. A criticism of the Glock action is that the trigger must be depressed prior to disassembly or insertion into the original design of its storage case, which can result in an unintentional discharge if the operator is extremely negligent. .. unfortunately, peeps forget about the bullet in the chamber all the time..
@30: Yes, a Glock doesn't have an EXTERNAL safety, but it has 3 internal safety mechanism, making it even LESS likley to discharge accidentally. A Glock will only shoot if you pull the trigger.
it was only a flesh wound!
Nice goin', Barney Fife.
Nice goin', Barney Fife.
you pay rookie cops $26,000 dollars a year and arm them with guns, what do you expect.
show me one cop that makes that much in their first year?
Um, I used to carry a very similar semi-automatic for a job. I am quite confident in saying that the only reason a person would cause the weapon go off during cleaning is if they are a goddamn retard.
Who is acting like the big man on the internet there BX? Walk a mile in your mocassins, I think not. My father is retired Army and my cousin is currently serving and served in Iraq but nice try. I guess to fucktards like you they are all incompetent and criminals. You are right I dont live in your neighborhood and I cant judge what it is like. But I do know this asswipe, people everyday put their lives on the line for idiots like you including the police you love to hate just so you can come on to the internet and smear them broadly because of a few/maybe more bad apples...but keep judging.
Emily:
I guess accidents can never happen and everyone who ever killed themselves or discharged a firearm while cleaning it were drunk hillbillies or idiots..nice eltist attitude. Accidents happen. This one shouldnt have and he is an idiot and like I said in one of my other double posts I dont buy the "I dropped it" excuse but people make mistakes, I hope one never happens to you. That was sincere not a snide comment.
This wasn't an "accident". There is no such thing, with most--if not all--modern firearms, called "accidental" discharges.
This was quite clearly a NEGLIGENT discharge.
There are just so many things going against this cop that it's hard to find any sympathy at all.
a mistake is transposing some numbers on your tax return, this ain't a mistake.
To disassemble a Glock for cleaning, you do indeed have to pull the trigger, which is why the safety check is so important and needs to be emphasized in the training so that it becomes automatic. The order in which you perform the actions in the safety check is critical too:
1) Remove the magazine.
2) Lock the slide to the rear (this will eject the round in the chamber).
3) Visually and manually inspect the mag well & chamber for any rounds.
4) Look away, then look back and repeat step 3.
Once you have performed the safety check, you then release the slide and let it spring forward. Then, remebering one of the cardinal rules of firearms safety, you point the muzzle in a safe direction (such as the baseboard where the floor & wall come together), then pull the trigger so that the weapon can be disassembled.
Not all NYPD officers carry Glocks though and the article doesn't give any indication as to which type of weapon he was issued. The disassembly process above will be different for different types of weapons but the safety check procedure is always the same.
Also, Glock pistols do have a trigger safety. It's not a separate safety lever like most people are used to, but it is a separate device that is placed in the middle of the trigger itself. If the trigger is accidentally snagged from the side, the safety will prevent the trigger from moving to the rear. However when you intentionally place your finger on the trigger and squeeze, the trigger safety is automatically depressed and the trigger is allowed to move. Beyond that, NYPD has specified the 12-lb. trigger pull as mentioned above. A typical trigger pull for a Glock is in the area of 5 lbs.
Anyway, the point of all this is: Guns don't just go off when dropped and this guy fucked up big time.
I heard a saying once that there's no worse feeling than when your gun goes click when it was supposed to go bang, or bang when it was supposed to go click.
On the double-posting front. Someone has to work on the back end asap. Besides this, the preference on how the -IST sites are viewed (Full article, summaries, etc) never sticks around. And I almost don't clear my cookies for any of the -IST sites (web developer; I manually manage that stuff). Thankfully content is king, but it does provide for a very frustration UX.
For a gun to discharge because it was dropped is very unlikely. Cleaning a loaded gun is not only stupid, it is impossible. He thought the gun wasn't loaded and pulled the trigger. He was careless and should lose his job. The police need to be held to a much higher standard. Hang the pig out to dry!