February 1, 2008
Union Hall (Sort of) Lifts Stroller Ban
Last weekend we took a look at Union Hall's new baby ban. The owner, Jim Carden, upset a lot of stroller-pushers when he declared kids would no longer be allowed in the establishment and put up a sign reading: "no strollers please". He asked nicely, but the Park Slope parents weren't having it. They rallied together on blogs to gain back the right to booze it up with their babies on board.
They won. Today the Brooklyn Paper's Smartmom announces that "the bar will once again welcome in moms and their kids for some downtime (and drinks!) a few afternoons a week." Prompting the question: "can we all get along?" Most likely the regular bar set won't be at the bar on the afternoons, but it's inevitable that they'll have something to say about it. The problem is mostly with parenting skills, many imbibing baby-watchers don't, in fact, watch their babies too closely, leaving employees and patrons chasing after their children.
“It was strictly liability,” Carden said. “A lot of parents are great and mindful. But some are not that attentive to their kids when they’re in here. This is a bar with an open stairwell and a bocce court. This is a business and we don’t have the staff to police it.”While there will be a few "off hour" afternoons that allow the under-aged, there will no longer be "mommy groups". But we're sure a much more appropriate venue can be found for such a thing, right?
Photo via Noelle D'Arrigo's Flickr.
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and here we go again...
This is a bar, right? So, why are people bringing their children to bars?
Wow, shouldn't some MBA husband be raising money for "Baby Bar" the hot new spot. They could even validate parking for the stroller. Then at night it turns in to "Big Baby Bar"
Come to think of it a kiddie safe bar might work. Lots of padded surfaces and baby gates. Probably even good for the older kids too.
And heeeeeeere cooooooooome the haters!
Note: I have a feeling I'll agree with the haters on this one.
as my friend likes to say, "I dont bring a six pack to your day care, so dont bring your babies to the bar." For the price of a few drinks, hire a babysitter and keep the kids out of bars.
You know whose mother used to take him to bars when he was a kid? Charles Manson. It's true.
This conflict strikes me as absurd.
Wanna have a drink? Get a babysitter.
I'm a parent and don't care to go to bars or restaurants where there's a high census of babies or strollers. Mind you, I love the little ones. Just not in a bar. There is a subset of Park Slope parents who have carried their militancy to an unbearable level. Their kids will fill the offices of psychotherapists for years to come as a result of their sense of entitlement.
Uh... WTF? I'm as open minded as the next person, but what kind of people band together to fight for their right to bring their children to the bar while they have drinks with their friends?! This is such a bizarre story. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. How does Union Hall even take this crap seriously?
and here you have the 'real' issues facing NYC in 2008 - whether or not ridiculous hipsters can bring their children (!) to bars. is this for real? i don't care what the laws are in europe (because that will certainly be used as an example here) and frankly, i'm all for inculcating our children to alcohol at an earlier age. but strollers? infants? i'm sorry, there's a (huge) difference between giving your 10 or 12 year old a wee nip every now and then and bringing your f'ing 2 year old to a public bar. get a grip and get a life - if you want to hang out at bars, wait to have your damn children or get a babysitter. you DON'T need to be around your kids 24/7.
I was there last night, there were babies in attendance. the problem isnt the babies, its the strollers. they create gridlock. union hall doesnt have a no babies policy, its a no strollers policy. big difference.
I've been to countries where having a few drinks and socializing with friends is not a pathological environment that children need to be shielded from. Sure, I'd raise an eyebrow at a baby at 7B in the East Village at 2am, but I doubt having a kid at a Park Slope bar in the early evening is irresponsible, or even unreasonable. Until they start screaming or running around like a drunken hellion, of course, then they get bounced like every other a-hole.
I don't see a need to rehash the previous thread..
I really don't think there's a liability issue here. The bar could make the simple argument that the parent was liable for simply bringing their child into the establishment. I don't see why it would be different than any other business. If I bring a baby to Macy's and it falls down the stairs, Macy's wouldn't be liable. Paranoid lawyers are ruining the world.
The next time I see a baby or toddler in a bar, I'm buying him/her shots.
Great point afternoon drinker. Why doesn't Union Hall just have the bouncer card the babies...no ID, no entry. It is a bar, isn't there a law that already governs this crap.
All the mommies that want to get loaded can do so at brunch...a perfectly acceptable drinking time for families.
Call me bitter, but...
I f*cking hate big a** strollers.
I despise the parents who need them on the train, in a boutique, or in any other small space.
I hate when I see kids too f*cking big in a stroller.
I hate when a kid sits next to me on the train and can't keep still.
I hate the parents that think their kids are entitiled to every f*ing thing.
I also hate the parents (usually moms) who think they are entitled to everything just because they popped a miniature watermelon out of their nether regions.
Some friends and I were sittin' in a bar one Sunday afternoon drinkin' and eatin' while watchin' football and, of course, we all started to shout and cuss at the TV. About two or three tables away from us were two men our age and a kid that had to be 4 or 5 years old. At one point, one of the men came over and asked us if we could watch our language or at least tone it down.
Our response?
Fuck you.
My friends and I are all married and have kids of our own and when we wanna drink and cuss and watch football WE LEAVE THE KIDS AT HOME.
I don't care if it's an artsy lounge or a sports bar, children DO NOT BELONG in a bar. All these stupid fuckin' hipster-yuppie sense-of-entitlement jack-offs need to realize not everyone cares if you have a kid.
And as far as what goes on in other countries? I don't care, that's why I don't live there.
I know, I know - I'm a boorish, insensitive asshole...
People need to be more considerate of others. Strollers used to be manufactured in a such a way as to be able to fold up and moved out of the way of pedestrian traffic. Parents seem to think that because a young and innocent child is in a stroller, society should show them the same deference we show the elderly or the infirm. Think again. Parents often forget their obligations to be good and considerate citizens. Keep the strollers out of the way of others, remove your bundles of joy from theaters and restaurants when they are crying loudly and disturbing others. A little bit of courtesy will go a long way. And you'll be teaching your children to respect others.
PNY is right, I saw a stroller at the time warner center that looks like it has the wheelbase of a Harley. Stroller wheels should not be larger than four inches.
it's too bad Union Hall is the only bar along 5th Ave. Now that the strollers have taken over, where will I drink Sparks and flash my junk?
So much hate. So much intolerance. So much disgust.
I might suggest the haters all ban together and REALLY get your message across. Try sending strollers into bars where there are (GASP!) mothers having a glass of wine with their babies and detonating the place via remote control.
This debate is right up there with vegetarianism vs meat eating and film vs. digital.
I got an inside tip that the yet-to-be announced Hummer H5 is a stroller.
Here are parents who want to pretend they dont have kids, when in fact they do. Sorry people get used to it. You can't do the same stuff you used to do before your kids. Isn't that selfish, dragging the kid along to the bar? Selfish to the other bargoers, selfish to the kid!
Im not a baby hater, but please, the stroller brigade has the whole slope for their own, it really wouldnt kill them to leave the rest of us a few scraps, like the BARS, where people might want to hang out, get drunk or curse without having to worry about offending little ears or tripping over stroller wheels like we have to in every other establishment in the neighborhood. I saw three strollers getting booted out of there last week, and it felt so good.
andoman, I'm with you.
its the same people bring babies to the movies, etc. Get a sitter, stay home or ------- oh, right- there is no "or."
I live in the area and have noticed a disturbing trend in the past years. Park Slopers have a sense of entitlement that bothers me. I've never heard more bitching and whining in my life. If a business in your neighborhood starts doing something you don't like, the natural reaction is to go somewhere that does. In too many instances, I have seen business change their name, their policies in the fear of being shut down by these entitled yuppies that spend hours on forums and blogs making demands. Jesus! Yes, it's a bar. Don't bring your babies there. That simple. Done and done.
There's a simple solution to all this. Avoid Park Slope! Park Slope is filled with the kind of people I hate, so I avoid it. I hate children, so I live in a neighborhood where I don't see them often, and when our paths do cross, they tend to be well behaved because the parents they have spend their time being parents, not drunkards. Go to a bar in another neighborhood, and vote with your money. Don't like kids in your bars? Spend your money elsewhere. Contrary to popular belief, there are many, many bars that will tell you to beat it if you bring your kid in. Try getting uppity on a blog about a bar not allowing your kids or stroller inside when that bar is in Bay Ridge, Astoria, or even the LES. The parent mafia only has control over the slope, which is overpriced, boring and other than Prospect Park doesn't have much going for it.
Here's one solution for UH patrons. When there is an child running roughshod in your midst, yell "WHO'S FUCKING KID IS THIS?!" Hopefully the brashness will cause the typically passive-aggressive, blog-posting Slopers to slink out of there.
I love kids. But really, this is pushing it too far. A fucking kid doesn't belong in a bar. These parents need to get over themselves...
JP Lynch, Let me know the next time you're at UH. The round's on me.
i would like to see Polite New Yorker doing a weekly etiquette post for Gothamist. we could all use some brushing up.
And I got the second round.
I blame that sonic youth couple and the guy who gets on stage with his offspring in a baby bjorn for this trend.
Mihow, how is this issue the same as meat-eater vs. vegetarians? Are the moms' kids getting eaten or something? Seriously, as much as I am peeved that UH got coerced into backing down by the "look at me and my huge baby stroller" crowd (and I am sure the bottom line is involved), they do have the right to decide their policies. But UH has to put their foot down on moms 1) leaving their toddlers running around unattended 2) leaving the big ass strollers to block a clearly public pathway. They should be banned for a week and have their pictures put up for humiliation.
JP Lynch, good for you for standing up to these self rightous pc goons!
Then at night it turns in to "Big Baby Bar"
- FrankMartin
That's the greatest line of the week.
I'm pretty sure this bullshit doesn't happen at Farrell's.
I live in Park Slope and am sick to the teeth with this argument. People need a break from all the baby/parent rights crap. All of Park Slope is centered around making babies and their parents happy. We need at least one place to escape the parents and children - JUST ONE!
Since when does having a kid guarantee you express lane at the grocery store passes, childish behavior at restaurants, and parking privileges? Let's face it, the strollers are a nuisance and take up lot's of space which we lack in Park Slope. They are children but this is an adult world. You don’t see me walking into your Gymboree forcing my adult status or taking over the playgrounds by building a Vespa parking lot. I’m sure I could come up with better ideas than that but you get the point.
Have a kid, expect to make a change. Not all of us want to be included in your family dinners even if your kid is cute. STAY HOME WITH YOUR CHILD and don’t inflict me with the various child rearing babble and bad table manners!
My rant is over. Thanks!
I live in Park Slope and am sick to the teeth with this argument. People need a break from all the baby/parent rights crap. All of Park Slope is centered around making babies and their parents happy. We need at least one place to escape the parents and children - JUST ONE!
Since when does having a kid guarantee you express lane at the grocery store passes, childish behavior at restaurants, and parking privileges? Let's face it, the strollers are a nuisance and take up lot's of space which we lack in Park Slope. They are children but this is an adult world. You don’t see me walking into your Gymboree forcing my adult status or taking over the playgrounds by building a Vespa parking lot. I’m sure I could come up with better ideas than that but you get the point.
Have a kid, expect to make a change. Not all of us want to be included in your family dinners even if your kid is cute. STAY HOME WITH YOUR CHILD and don’t inflict me with the various child rearing babble and bad table manners!
My rant is over. Thanks!
So much hate. So much intolerance. So much disgust.
mihow, fuck you and your sense of entitlement.
Take your kids to the park or a playground, not a bar.
Jesus this is irritating.
Let them all have Park Slope. It needs to be the new Stuy Town or something - but owned, operated and populated by these self-important so-called bloggger moms. Then we can all avoid them and they can socialize within their mommy groups and everyone will be happy.
I once lived in Park Slope for 6 months when it was commonly referred to as "Dyke Slope." Talk about a generally un-pretentions population of dog-loving dykes. It really was fun then - and yes, they picked up their poop.
Park Slope should just annex from NYC, but NYC should not annex from NY State, heh heh.
JP Lynch, Rocknrope, eyekantspel - cheers to you!
I will simply kick the fucking stroller out of my way next time I see one in a bar.
Oh, and Union Hall has lost my business forever. Who wants to get drunk with a bunch of uptight, entitled, self-important 'moms'?
I'm renting a storefront on 7th Avenue, and I'll make it look like the world's best toy and candy shoppe...from the outside. Then when children run inside,excited and happy, the whole place will be pitch black, and The Kid Whipper will appear to whip your children! Once. In the corner of the mouth. Then fade into the shadows...I'd whip the parents too, but they'll probably enjoy it much too much.
Walk two blocks down Union to Canal Bar on Third Avenue. The only thing running around is a little mutt and you usually don't have to worry about her getting under your feet as she usually is sitting in a chair, or on the bar.
Best thing to do might be to rent a storefront near Union Hall, offering a safe, child-friendly environment for drunk moms to park their kids.
Union hall is the best place to watch breastfeeding. I mean, if that's your thing.
parents .... act like parents. accept the fact you're no longer bar hoppers. don't drink with your kids. what is wrong with people?
I wonder if these mothers wear beer helmets while breast feeding.
keep your filthy, screaming, obnoxious, dirty child out of my f-ing way.
it's that simple.
these mothers think they can have their cake and eat it too.
ugh.
with motherhood comes the assumption that you will have to give up sone of the luxuries you enjoyed before you had kids, such as, going to a bar. this baffles me, why would you want to have a child at a bar anyways? go home and drink a glass of wine.
In ten or twelve years, the overly entitled teenagers of Park Slope will be wearing their shitty parents out.
And I will be laughing. From a bar stool. Across the room from the table of alcoholic kids with the fake IDs.
Why would anyone want to party in Park Slope?
Ew, ew, ew!!! Do they really breastfeed in the bar? That has to be a joke, right? Like I want to see your barbaric, parasitic behavior while I'm drinking... gross. Ugh, I can just imagine the barfights when some drunk guy makes an icky comment and the husband reacts...
Glad I don't live in Park Slope. Blech.
Hate to say it, but the bozos who run Union Hall opened themselves up to this kind of thing when they started SERVING BRUNCH, making their front room look like a warm and cozy cafe, and pretending to be a "Tea Lounge with Bocce". Tea Lounge in Park Slope was always overrun with strollers during the day, and you can bet dollars to donuts Jim Carden and his gang were salivating at the idea of tapping into all that "mommy" money. Now, when they realize how much of a pain in the ass it is, they can't get rid of them. Ha. Serves them right-- taste of their own medicine. Just wait-- won't be too long before one of those mommies gets cell-phone-ographed giving their kid a "nip" or two. ;-)
I have no problem with a parent bringing their (well-behaved) kid to a mellow bar and having a drink with their friends, while folding up and stowing away their stroller. But they have to respect the primary function of the bar, and not expect it to be a daycare center simply because they have appeared.
As someone pointed out above, it's the strollers that were banned, not kids. Since stroller size and a sense of entitlement seem to be directly related, it becomes a problem. Many of these moms are simply too self-centered to notice that their machines of convenience are incredibly inconvenient for everyone else.
All this, and I still can't bring my dog into a bar. All she'll do is sleep at my feet.
Joclyn, you can definitely bring your dog to The Gate. They love dogs there.