Commission Recommends Modified Congestion Pricing Plan; Boundary Would Start at 60th Street

If you don't want to pay tolls you shouldn't live on an island.

This shouldn't be done without a city resident exception.

We already pay taxes for the roads, we shouldn't have to pay one to get around our own city.

The $8 Verrazano bridge fee is absurd. Your state senators/city council people should be screaming about that every single meeting.

"On my way to work along 8th, bet, 45th & 57th, I saw the same cop ticket trucks belonging to Coca-Cola, a beer-distributor, a bakery & a laundry dropping off clean table linens. Those tickets are paid off in nickels & dimes by ordinary New Yorkers..."

So is your argument that commercial vehicles simply shouldn't be ticketed? That businesses should pay no taxes or other fees because it goes to the consumer?

"spray the license plates with anti-reflective coating found on the internets"

That shit's about as effective as HeadOn.

"Not everyone lives near a subway stop."

"Not everyone can just ride their f***ing bike over the Williamsburg bridge, you know."

Another choice? Get a scooter!

That's what many did in London when congestion pricing was introduced. Many choices today with plenty of power, modern emissions control and up to 70 mpg.

I ride my Vespa from South Brooklyn to Manhanttan every day its not raining or snowing and actually *gasp* enjoy my commute!

This will create a new industry of fake license plates. If you don't have a gps receiver, they take a picture, mail a ticket. By the time anybody has found out, you're already gone. When the government outright bans something, or levys excessive fines and taxes ... people find a way around it.

See: prohibition, American revolution, etc...

You think people purloining photostats of police parking placards is problematic? Wait until congestion pricing ... Hide the E-Z passes, spray the license plates with anti-reflective coating found on the internets ... http://www.phantomplate.com/index.html ... it's going to be a fucking field day.

Forcing deliveries to off-peak hours requires those who want to ship or receive to also be open during off-peak hours...

That $21 truck fee will be disproportionately inflicted on small distributors. The beer and soft drink businesses get tickets in the 7 figures each year, but those tickets are negotiated downward by those businesses.

Those small and medium sized distributors do not have the clout to negotiate with the city, so they and the consumers of their products are certainly going to have to bear that cost.

I understand the goal is to force deliveries into off-peak hours, but that isn't always feasible.

And PS...I am not a car owner.

Thank you, nik13. I've been saying that prices will skyrocket with any congestion pricing scheme. Really bad. The whole idea is awful. It's a city, It's crowded. It's congested. Get used to it. Don't want traffic? Go live somewhere else. How I wish Bloomberg would.

"Lockbox"??? Who runs this circus? Al Gore?

Congestion pricing was tried with much fanfare, but limited success in London, by Mayor "Red" Ken Livingstone.

$21 truck fee will be promptly passed onto those who depend on goods brought in by said trucks. Costs of everything, including food will go up. NYC is already an extremely hostile place to do business.

On my way to work along 8th, bet, 45th & 57th, I saw the same cop ticket trucks belonging to Coca-Cola, a beer-distributor, a bakery & a laundry dropping off clean table linens. Those tickets are paid off in nickels & dimes by ordinary New Yorkers...

Today was the last day for the ferry between South Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) and Manhattan. The private ferry company cannot run the ferry because fuel costs have increased tremendously while ridership revenue has not increased.

The city promised ferry subsidies but has never come through.

The congestion pricing proposal includes improvements for transit service prior to congestion pricing, but it specifically mentions only subway and bus service improvements.

The proposal should include ferry subsidies. The g*ddamn congestion area is on an ISLAND for crying out loud... and there are no ferry subsidies! The South Brooklyn ferry takes about 12 minutes to cross the river to downtown Manhattan. The R train from same location takes about 40 minutes.

Why are the ferries ignored when there is water, water everywhere???

I wish all you fat, lazy, whiners would leave your oversized, gas guzzling SUV and just try walking or riding a bike for a change, I mean come on already. And while your at it lay off the big macs for a day or so.

And if you are driving, stay the F out of the bike lane!

GET ALL CARS OUT OF HERE. Impossible to breath in the city.

How about a city wide air-purifing system? We can use subway system to hook into every part of Manhattan.

This is not a Jewish Afro American conspiracy is it?

JMH, thanks for the heads-up and the back-up.

Mothra, yes, the resident parking was in the boros, not Manhattan. This way people don't flood the nabes near the bridges with their damn cars. But I was unclear, sorry about that.

I'm thinking this is aimed at getting the SUV-loving suburban commuter or the subway-what-are-you-kidding-me Yuppies out of their damn cars and into mass transit, but as I'm reading these I'm wondering if they'll just eat the fee (with their damn cars still on the road) while other folks of more limited means get hurt. Merits a second look.

But the idea in general is a good one... there's too many damn cars in Midtown, more than the space can hold. There's gotta be an answer out there somewhere.

JMH, thanks for the heads-up and the back-up.

Mothra, yes, the resident parking was in the boros, not Manhattan. This way people don't flood the nabes near the bridges with their damn cars. But I was unclear, sorry about that.

I'm thinking this is aimed at getting the SUV-loving suburban commuter or the subway-what-are-you-kidding-me Yuppies out of their damn cars and into mass transit, but as I'm reading these I'm wondering if they'll just eat the fee (with their damn cars still on the road) while other folks of more limited means get hurt. Merits a second look.

But the idea in general is a good one... there's too many damn cars in Midtown, more than the space can hold. There's gotta be an answer out there somewhere.

This plan is fantastic.

1. I've got other people adding revenue to the city and paying for increased services that I get to enjoy.

2. Fewer of the *ss clowns whining on this message board will come to my beloved city.

Win, win, win.

Its just another way to bastardize the rest of the boroughs like was done with Staten Island. I mean c'mon $8 just to cross the Verrazano which was paid for decades ago. Now $8 to come into the inner sanctum. It's like who the hell comes up with these toll prices if not some greedy wasteful bastards. You can drive the entire length of the Jersey Turnpike for the same price it costs to come into the city. Likewise all across the United Stated. Tollways still take loose change in some metro areas. Not here. $8 a whack is not chump change. That will most definitely be passed on to cabs. Forget catching a cab from 61st to 50th street anymore. I can honestly I say I never ever drive in lower Manhattan. However, being a free country with the highest taxes in the nation and most revenue from the already overprices bridges and tunnels I resent the mere idea of creating yet another discriminating way to keep people out of the all holy Manhattan. I guess if someone from Staten Island had to driv into the city it would cost them at least $16 just for that privilege. If people want to drive in that craziness let them. As a pedestrian walking in it daily I have no problem crossing the streets no matter how far back the cars and trucks go. I say it again, its just a way to tax people again for more wasted money. Let the money flow in and we still wont get the 2nd ave subway or repairs made to the rusty filthy stations we have (anyone been to 6th ave L lately and see the mold monsters which have been overtaking the walls for a few years now), but I bet the fat cats get really big raises across the board.

JMH, do you know what the ratio of drivers in Manhattan that even have a mass-transit option? I don't. I'm genuinely asking.

What I think about is people who must drive into the taxed zone to make a living. Somebody at one of the meetings correctly said "you cant deliver 12 yards of cement on the subway."

I find it odd how concerned people who don't drive are with improving traffic flow....

I can't take it anymore. I'm moving to Queens.

What does Fulton Street have to do with congestion pricing? evidence that our government is good at thinking up ways to waste our money, and how it generally manages to screw it up in implementation.

The MTA and the Port Authority are rapists! They have continually fucked over the average New Yorker and moan and groan constantly. Kill all of them and start over again!

Now if you really want to reduce congestion ... we can start with outlawing Taxis, since they make up about 60% of the traffic at any given time.

Yup, I know how London's system works. But are we talking about whether the actual enforcement system is feasible? Or whether the concept is feasible? Because I don't see how the difference in enforcement mechanisms would make a pricing scheme cut down on congestion in London while not doing the same here.

Matuko, if someone is too tired to take mass transit, I certainly don't want them behind the wheel of a car (where they pose a risk to other people). Drivers who aren't alert enough to be driving (for any number of reasons) are a big part of the reason why so many pedestrians get hit by cars in this city.

Just a few days ago it was reported that the Fulton Street Station was going to take 3 extra years and costs were already 400M over the original estimate of 750M. Enough already.

What does Fulton Street have to do with congestion pricing? Enough already indeed. We get it.

The govt can tax drivers in any number of ways if they want to increase revenue to fund buses for underserved areas. Before we throw more money at things that ain't broke, we should ask where does all the current tax and toll money go? Billions of dollars in, and our streets and roads are potholed disasters. Our subway stations are a leaky, peeling, rusty mess. Just a few days ago it was reported that the Fulton Street Station was going to take 3 extra years and costs were already 400M over the original estimate of 750M. Enough already.

"Not everyone lives near a subway train."

That's exactly the point. The charge effectively redistributes money from the roads to the rails. The MTA capital fund is used to build new lines and stations, as well as to buy more buses and train cars.

There will be a painful transition period, but after 10-15 years we could have a much broader transportation network that leaves the roads free to be used by trucks and those willing to pay the premium for convenience, and the buses and rails for people just getting around.

Don't worry. This shit of a plan won't pass. Everyone's poo-pooing it already.

Now if you really want to reduce congestion ... we can start with outlawing Taxis, since they make up about 60% of the traffic at any given time.

no hidden agenda on my part- like most NYers, I take the subway or walk to get around the city most of the time, rarely use cabs, and only drive in the city on the occassional weekend.

I usually take the subway or walk because I'm not an idiot. Which is precisely why I can recognize this as a bad idea without needing to test it out.

No, that's true, not everyone lives near a subway train, but there are also a huge number of bus routes, and one of the biggest elements of Bloomberg's plan is using a chunk of the congestion revenue to drastically improve bus service to areas that are currently underserved by existing transit options.

thanks for the edits glenQNYC.

Shovel, whenever the government tries something out, it manages to spend tons of money to study and implement it, and then it will take years (if ever) for them to admit it doesn't work. Once it's there, it's always easiest to just leave the system in place, and to continue to raise fees.

JMH, what places? London? Ever been? They use a camera-based system. Read more about it. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/congestioncharging/6718.aspx

Those "smart enough to use public transit" already do. What benefits do you expect will result from this?

There are already high tolls to come into the city, with extra costs on trucks.

http://www.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.htm

The only people who benefit are the ones who collect the tolls.

Not everyone lives near a subway train.

Also, FrankMartin, I want to leave because I object to and am becoming a target of the wholesale disenfranchising of people who live in the parts of NYC that happen not to be Manhattan, who might be too old/tired to take mass transit, or who might live closer to where they have to work (i.e., Manhattan) if they could afford it, or who might work more than one job per day in more than one borough.

Not everyone who drives into Manhattan just does it because they're lazy. Not everyone can just ride their f***ing bike over the Williamsburg bridge, you know.

People who are stubborn enough to continue driving even though they generally have other options are welcome to do so. Those of us who are smart enough to use public transit (and who aren't so rich that we own cars and need to drive them everywhere) will reap the benefits.

The idea that there won't be a reduction in VMT is ridiculous, in the face of significant evidence to the contrary. It's just a falsehood that people are trying to maintain is true because THEY don't want to stop driving and so THEY don't want to pay the fee.

so, why not at least try it out for a trial period? it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

Get rid of all those free parking permits that the city issues to city employees and the amount of vehicles in the city will be decreased by about 20,000 a day.

This will stop no-one from driving. Most downtown congestion is from cars and trucks who have to have them there for deliveries and such. What it will do is cause nothing but triple congestion in Brooklyn trying to get to the Triboro that's above the street number. Forget driving there anytime from 6-6. Its just another tax to be wasted on our corrupt Tammy Hallers again. Same crap different century. Manhattan has been congested for 300+ years. This is nothing but about the money in the form of yet another tax on us in the highest taxed city in the free world. Expect $8 tolls on all the east river bridges 24 x7 coming up next. Its all about the money.

I'd totally agree with an edited version of your post eyekantspel....

Edited post by eyekantspel: "Congestion pricing is a terrible idea. It's just a tax pitched to the ignorant who think it will cut down on driving in the city, pollution, or whatever.

Congestion largely mitigates itself- most sane people avoid driving into NYC during busy hours unless absolutely necessary, because they expect traffic is going to suck and there are better, faster, less frustrating ways to get around. Congestion is in and of itself the biggest disincentive for driving in the city.

The idea that this plan will create some kind of low traffic utopia or cut pollution is simplistic and wrong."

I'd totally agree with an edited version of your post eyekantspel....

Edited post by eyekantspel: "Congestion pricing is a terrible idea. It's just a tax pitched to the ignorant who think it will cut down on driving in the city, pollution, or whatever.

Congestion largely mitigates itself- most sane people avoid driving into NYC during busy hours unless absolutely necessary, because they expect traffic is going to suck and there are better, faster, less frustrating ways to get around. Congestion is in and of itself the biggest disincentive for driving in the city.

The idea that this plan will create some kind of low traffic utopia or cut pollution is simplistic and wrong."

A reduction in trucks sounds like a reduction in progress and economic growth...

eyekantspel, that would be a very good point except for the fact that congestion pricing HAS done exactly what it's supposed to do in other cities. And what do you mean "congestion mitigates itself"? Have you BEEN to Canal Street at any point during a weekday? Yeah, nobody's driving there.

Congestion pricing is a terrible idea. It's just a tax pitched to the ignorant who think it will cut down on driving in the city, pollution, or whatever. This is guaranteed to accomplish nothing other than cause huge problems around whatever boundaries they draw for the fee zone.

If they want to tax cars in the city, there are better and easier ways to do it. Increase parking fees, add more cops to ticket those who double park, speed, run red lights, etc. Increase taxes on businesses that require commercial deliveries (those fees will be passed on no matter how it's done, by taxing trucks or the business).

Congestion largely mitigates itself- most sane people avoid driving into NYC during busy hours unless absolutely necessary, because they expect traffic is going to suck and there are better, faster, less frustrating ways to get around. Congestion is in and of itself the biggest disincentive for driving in the city.

The idea that this plan will create some kind of low traffic utopia or cut pollution is simplistic and wrong.

While we're at it, let's hand it over to CONED and the MTA to run.

Traffic Congestion Mitigation Commission = morons.

And Matuko, what do you mean? Nobody is keeping anyone out of NYC, you may have noticed that there are things called buses and trains and bicycles which are, in many respects, a superior way to get to and around the city.

So if you commute from Blkyn/Queens to NJ, that's potentially $12.50/day in tolls or $16/day if you have to cross through the congestion zone. Ouch. Time to move to NJ I guess.

This so disproportionately affects those not well off, it's not even funny.

This so disproportionately affects those not well off, it's not even funny.

Tim N., if you look at the linked article on Streetsblog, you'll see that there are provisions for a residential parking permit system.

Mothra, the point isn't resident-only parking in Manhattan, the point is resident-only parking in areas outside the congestion zone where residents don't want their neighborhoods to become park-and-rides.

Resident parking is a good idea. And no mothra i'm not kidding. it's about discouraging people from driving to Manahttan or, in the case of resident, driving within it.

And farewell matukonyc. If this annoys you so much NYC isn't the place for you.

Again. Bloomberg is a sawed-off, out-of-touch, industrial-sized prick. I don't see how anyone could "like" him, unless they are a beneficiary of his largesse.

Again. Bloomberg is a sawed-off, out-of-touch, industrial-sized prick. I don't see how anyone could "like" him, unless they are a beneficiary of his largesse.

Resident-only parking? In Manhattan? You've got to be kidding me. If you have to have a car here you budget for a garage, silly.

So Bloomberg gets his wish -- keeping all of the undesirables out of Manhattan so the rich people can have faster taxicab rides to work. Congrats!

I'll be stepping up my search for a new city to in which to live.

One huge omission...WHERE'S THE RESIDENT-ONLY PARKING???

Also, tolls on the West Side and FDR are going to make driving on the BQE a dream.

Other than that, the plan has merit...