January 24, 2008
Undercover Program to Make Sure Cabbies Behave
Photograph of cab driver in Times Square by nschaden on Flickr
The Taxi and Limousine Commission has announced that it and the NYPD will be embarking on an undercover program to crackdown on bad cabbie behavior. Cabbies are supposed to let passengers pay with credit cards, not to mention not be rude and chatting on a cell phone during the ride, but the TLC says they hear otherwise.
The program is named "Operation Secret Rider" (ha!) and TLC Commissioner Matthew Daus says the program is to help drivers "get back to basics and remind drivers the passenger is always right. It's a service industry. The word on the street from passengers is service is good, but there are still some issues."
Offending cabbies will be fined ($150 for rudeness, cellphone chatting $200) and those who repeatedly violate the Taxi Passenger's Bill of Rights (below) - plus not allowing credit card payment - could lose their licenses. Credit card payments cost drivers a 5% surcharge, hence some drivers' claim they cannot accept plastic.
Cab passengers, how have you been finding drivers recently? All we care about is just getting to one place from the next in a quick and stress-free manner (yelling at other cars is a bummer). Last year, one taxi union organized a strike, protesting GPS technology the TLC requires in cabs (opponents say the technology is unproven). New York Taxi Workers' Alliance executive director Bhairavi Desai said of Operation Secret Rider, the TLC is "persecuting drivers" and "turning a blind eye to every problem that drivers face."
|
Do you mean to say we HAVE to tip if we get good service?
Interesting list of rights... but what about drivers having change for a twenty dollar bill and it being their responsibility to get out of the car and get it if they don't!?
What is everyones ratio of good to bad cabbies that actually fulfill the entire bill of rights(good:bad)? I find that its about 1:3.
coolmidwestguy, welcome to America. We have to tip for mediocre service.
NO BROOKLYN! NO BROOKLYN!
I like when they pull over, roll down the window, and ask you where you're going before they agree to let you in the car, as if they have the perogative to do that. I live 5 minutes from all 3 bridges in Brooklyn, yet I get told "no" all the time. I think they would have a heart attack if I needed to go to Staten Island or Hunts Point or something.
Once when I got the usual "No Brooklyn!" and I refused to get out of the car, I actually had the guy threaten me physically, which was funny since I was on the phone complaining to TLC at the time and they could hear him screaming at me. But since I have this annoying "job" during the day I wasn't able to attend the hearing to actually enforce my complaint. Some drivers are great, but some are whiny jerks.
The chance of getting numbers two through five on the list has been close to lottery odds for years.
Oh my god, there's not going to be any cabs left. Why is it I've never been told no about going to Brooklyn? When I lived in Harlem only once did I get told no. Is it a girl/boy thing?
I take cabs at least once a week these days, and the experience is nearly always the same:
Option A: they're on the hands-free cellphone the entire time. This often causes the standard "what was that?" reaction after initially thinking they're talking to me.
Option B: they've got the radio blaring some talk radio station. Usually have to ask them to turn it down. Then again half the time I want them to is so I can be on *my* cellphone, so how fair is that?
As for the credit card thing, that's more annoying. Seems they don't *want* to do the CC or don't know all about the machines. They'll often push a button defaulting it to cash before I can make a choice. Other times, if something goes wrong (or did it really?), they don't seem to know anything about the system to get it back to a useful screen.
I think the CC thing is just new. Maybe, between time and this supposed crackdown, the drivers will fall in line and make sure it's on offer. Oh wait, this is NYC - they'll keep stalling and making excuses as long as they possibly can.
Overall, I've been finding drivers to be relatively friendly and nice (when you speak to them). The only issue I've had is when a driver doesn't want to drive me to Brooklyn. It's at this point that I have to resort to the "by law, you need to take me there without hassle."
I don't agree w/ the credit card requirements for drivers--these guys work on such a thin profit margin as it is. I used to work in the merchant services industry (credit card services), and always thought it would be terrible if cabs were forced to accept credit cards because of the costs/fees associated with them. Not that the percentages are huge, but it's not like these guys are making a great living driving 12 hr days. Also, the health problems they eventually get from sitting for such extended periods of time are pretty significant, and we're going to take 5 cents on the dollar from them? I know it can be argued that they could just find another job, but there's no way every single cab driver in NYC could find work in other fields.
"a safe and courteous driver who obeys all traffic laws"
Hahahaha ...
Right. I'll make sure to mention that the next time my driver is doing 65+ mph down Park, in the middle of two lanes, honking at every light for no apparent reason.
I call bullshit on #5 -- like you would really get a human on the phone at 311 within the 15-20 seconds that it took to enter the cab and say Brooklyn.
The biggest problem with cabbies is unsafe driving. Speeding, blowing through lights, and turning a trip into a roller-coaster ride. They should use the GPS crapola to see how fast these guys are going and where -- just like was attempted by rental car agencies a few years ago. Too many breaks of the limit = no more hack license.
No Queens!! No Queens!! I get the same thing and I live 5 mintues across the 59th st bridge in Astoria. I learned my lesson about telling the driver I was going to Queens early on--but a few times they have actually pulled over and told me to get out after telling them I want to go to Astoria.
I always complain to the TLC when I get locked doors, rolled down window, and NO BROOKLYN shouted at me. The hearings are a joke and I have a job to be at.
I hope this crackdown has an effect. We definitely need some enforcement.
@ 5 and 12 -- yes!! This happens to me a lot! If I'm in Manhattan, I insist on getting in the cab before I tell the drive that I'm headed to Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Too many times I've had rude cabbies pull away and drive off. Now I make sure to open the door and get in the cab before I tell them. I thought it was illegal for a cab drive to refuse someone a ride because of where they live. Sometimes at the end of the ride, I give them directions to Bedford Avenue so that they easily find fare that wants to go back to Manhattan.
Or what about the drivers that have EZpass and want to take the Midtown Tunnel instead of the 59th St Bridge just so they can collect some extra cash? I hear a lot of belligerent excuses to take the tunnel, which I'm pretty sure is a scam, especially if they already have EZpass and can pocket that $$$.
I get the 'No Brooklyn' thing at least 50% of the time in Manhattan.
@11: I have to disagree on that one. I was taking a cab back from JFK about three weeks ago,it was pretty late around 2AM, and the cabby is driving me in circles. We go through the usual nonsense, as I explain to him that even though I am coming from the airport, I am native NY'er and know my way around Brooklyn better than he does. He insists that he is right, even as I see we are heading towards Coney Island. He refuses to take my directions, and is clearly lost. I wasn't getting out of a cab on Cropsey at 2am on a Tuesday night, so I called 311 on my mobile and I honestly had someone on the line in 45 seconds. Maybe it was the time of night, but it worked well.
Here's the catch. I end up paying the creep way too much for the fare, and I file a complaint. About a week later I get a letter in the mail from the TLC, saying they got my complaint. Another week goes bye, and I get a letter asking me to confirm a court date. It said that if I am unable to make the court date, the whole thing would be dropped. It's not worth taking a day off work for being overcharged on a fare. I think that's the real issue, here. How many people are going to blow off work to actually enforce these laws? Very few I imagine.
"I know it can be argued that they could just find another job, but there's no way every single cab driver in NYC could find work in other fields."
It can also be argued that they could negotiate with the CC companies to allow a fee for CC usage. Usually this is prohibited.. in fact the only place I can think of that does this is gas stations (and even then it's only the cheap ones).. though now I'm reading this is illegal in NYS. Oh well.
#11-I called 311 when he said no. Then I remained in the backseat for the entire time it took me to finish lodging my complaint, and I told him I would get out when I got finished reporting him for breaking the law. This is why he was threatening to physically eject me. Too bad he didn't try to back up his threat - I would have beaten the bejesus out of him.
I have a question. Can cabbies refuse you the front seat if you have three in the back seat?
emilydickinson wrote:
Which I guess is part of the reason why they're having the NYPD look into it.How about cracking down on the gypsy cabs at JFK and LGA? I was coming out of the JetBlue terminal at 11:30PM on Monday, and the gypsys were all over the place, harrassing the people standing on line.
@18: Yeah, sitting in the front seat is 'at the driver's discretion'.
JMH: Agreed, but it's a shame that the end user has no solid recourse when they get screwed.
Strangely, I have also never gotten "No Brooklyn," but (a) I'm always with my wife when I take a cab and (b) We always get in first and then say where we are going.
I don't blame these cabbies for not wanting to venture out to the outer boros. It's a money losing proposition what with the price of gas and especially considering these brokeass hipsters are cheap with tipping. Just buy a can of mace and take the subway like any other normal NYer.
Had one today who kept saying, "I can't drive in this traffic, I can't drive in this traffic." Midtown at 8am.
Wow, I still don't know what to say.
The top picture of the cabbie in Times Square=amazing. He looks like he's going to jump through the glass and break the photographer's jaw.
I have a problem with the way that one must report a bad driver to 311. My wife and I had a bad experience last year and so we decided to call 311. I forgot exactly what happened/was required but I believe in order to file a complaint we were required to pay some money and show up to a hearing. Why on earth would I do that for a simple complaint? 311 will get the calls anyways, why not log how many complaints for a specific taxi driver. Five complaints come in for a cab driver - give them a fine. Ten complaints come in - take their license away. Seems like you could get rid of the petty problems (i.e., cell phone usage, credit card usage, etc.) easily that way. How effective can a few police officers actually be?
I have a problem with the way that one must report a bad driver to 311. My wife and I had a bad experience last year and so we decided to call 311. I forgot exactly what happened/was required but I believe in order to file a complaint we were required to pay some money and show up to a hearing. Why on earth would I do that for a simple complaint? 311 will get the calls anyways, why not log how many complaints for a specific taxi driver. Five complaints come in for a cab driver - give them a fine. Ten complaints come in - take their license away. Seems like you could get rid of the petty problems (i.e., cell phone usage, credit card usage, etc.) easily that way. How effective can a few police officers actually be?
coolmidwestguy- I didn't know that only hipsters occupy the outer boros. And your gas logic sucks as it would cost more to drive from Battery Park to Harlem than it would to drive from midtown to Astoria or Soho to Brooklyn.
Anyhow, I've never had a problem getting a cab to Brooklyn whether I'm alone or with my hubby. Definitely agree you should get in the cab and close the door first before you say where you are going.
NYC cabs actually go to Northern Westchester? Peeksill, Yorktown Heights
I wonder how much that would cost.
only good cabbie is a retired cabbie..
I used to live in mid-Queens and would take late night cabs home from the East Village almost every weekend. I would just get in, close the door and announce "We're going to Queens!" No driver ever refused, perhaps because they all live in Queens themselves or perhaps because they knew they could go to the airport afterwards. Or perhaps because I'm a lot larger than most cabbies, who knows.
A friend who lives in Riverdale once had a cabbie in Manhattan take the keys, get out of the cab and walk away after he and his wife announced their destination. My friend took his hack license from the little frame behind the driver's head and threw it into a sewer.
Regarding the Midtown Tunnel to Queens, I used to tell drivers to take the 59th Street bridge to avoid the toll. But one driver insisted that the tunnel route was the same price because of the extra travel to go uptown to the bridge. Turns out he was right.
kplunkett, who did you have to pay money to? I filed a complaint once and didn't have to pay anything.
I had a driver that refused to bring me to my intended destination, so I called 311, filed a complaint, and took the morning off work to attend the hearing. The driver didn't show, but I had to explain my side to an administrative law judge. A few weeks later, I received a notice to appear back at TLC for another hearing because the cabbie had responded to my complaint, made an answer, and was willing to appear. I couldn't take another 1/2 day from work, so I didn't bother going. No wonder these guys get away with so much.
I hope they use women undercover agents -- I think women take the most abuse from taxi drivers. I'm constantly being told to "be quiet" just for asking which route we're taking. Some of these drivers just can't handle being asked ANYTHING or told anything by a woman. And being talked to like I'm some middle aged dude's teenage daughter is not my idea of polite.
This sounds silly but is there a rule that cabs must go to Queens?
I kid you not..I argue with cabs more often about this than ANYTHING else. The whole 'window down and then no we don't go to Queens' thing. New Year's morning it took me over forty five minutes and ten cabbies before I finally got one to go the whole ten minute ride. And that was only because I bribbed the cabbie with a tip the size of the fare.
And seriously, cabbies aren't supposed to be on cellphones? When I finally do get a cab to go to Queens they are ALWAYS on the phone. ALWAYS.
Ah yes, I forgot about the "where you going?" question before I'm allowed to enter the cab. I have rarely heard "no brooklyn" in the past several years. Too many people have moved to brooklyn, especially 'hoods near manhattan, for them to turn down. Sometimes I can even snag a Yellow *in* Brooklyn to go to Manhattan (thus giving them the return trip they fear they won't get).
Often if they're unwilling to take me, I get the long excuse that they were on their way back to the garage towards the end of their shift, and if they take me so far out of their way, they won't make it back in time. I think that means they get a fine or something because they technically "rent" the cabs by the shift from the garage.
In a way I'm sympathetic - they just want to see if they can make a buck on their way back and not lose money for being late - but they've got to know they can't really have it both ways. I'd prefer they just turn the "OFF DUTY" sign on (and then NOT try to pick people up).
For future reference for those who read these comments, and maybe for the person who wrote the article:
I have had multiple cabbies confirm this: it is illegal (against the cab company rules) for a cab driver to ask you where you are going before getting into the cab. It is also equally illegal for them to deny you service based on where you want to go (as long as it is within the bounds of the agreed-upon city. In the case of NYC this includes all the boroughs).
So the next time a cabby drives up and rolls down their window: IGNORE IT AND IMMEDIATELY GET IN THE CAB. If they turn around and ask you, agrily since they were trying to find out first, where you are going and then refuse you: you are now in the cab. You can then tell them you know it is against the rules for them to refuse to take you where you want to go, and that you will report them to their company if they do not. Don't bother with 311. Every cab has the phone number to their company. Use THAT. Take down the cab driver's information and report him.
So in summary IT IS ILLEGAL FOR A CAB DRIVER TO ASK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO BEFORE YOU GET IN THE CAR AND JUST AS ILLEGAL TO REFUSE SERVICES IF THE DESTINATION IS WITHIN THE FIVE BOROUGHS.
I will never get why people don't get in cabs before they tell their destination. Just open the door, it won't be locked! I've never had a "no brooklyn" in many years of taking cabs, but I always get in first.
@Ronenmars: True, that is the letter of the law, but it just isn't the reality. Many cabbies refuse to unlock the doors until you tell them your destination. Also, (and this has actually happened to me at least 3 times) if they don't want to go to Brooklyn etc., they will fake stall the car. I'm not joking. I've actually called a cabby out on this, and he just smiled and said, 'Sorry, the engines broken' and shifted his toothpick to the other side of his mouth. Do you REALLY think calling the cabbies company is going to do anything? It will cost them money by having less cars on ther road.
if they fake stall, wait for a cop and then the cop will write a "fake" ticket.
if they fake stall, wait for a cop and then the cop will write a "fake" ticket.
@Emily
I've never seen a cab door locked. Ever. But I'll have to take your word for it.
As for calling the cab company: who knows. Maybe they tell what you want to hear and then toss it out the window. But from what the cab drivers I've spoken to (who were nice enough to inform me of these rules and tricks) have said, it actually is effective. They do listen, because every person who called in to complain about not getting the cab is someone they now know they lost money on (because the cabby refused to take them).
And I realize that the things I've stated are not always going to work. There will be tricky, tricky cabbies using every trick in the book on you, but knowing these rules and trying to enforce them will force the ones with less desire for conflict to follow orders, and quite simply, that is a lot of those who try to pull these initial tricks.
@Emily
I've never seen a cab door locked. Ever. But I'll have to take your word for it.
As for calling the cab company: who knows. Maybe they tell what you want to hear and then toss it out the window. But from what the cab drivers I've spoken to (who were nice enough to inform me of these rules and tricks) have said, it actually is effective. They do listen, because every person who called in to complain about not getting the cab is someone they now know they lost money on (because the cabby refused to take them).
And I realize that the things I've stated are not always going to work. There will be tricky, tricky cabbies using every trick in the book on you, but knowing these rules and trying to enforce them will force the ones with less desire for conflict to follow orders, and quite simply, that is a lot of those who try to pull these initial tricks.
@Emily
I've never seen a cab door locked. Ever. But I'll have to take your word for it.
As for calling the cab company: who knows. Maybe they tell what you want to hear and then toss it out the window. But from what the cab drivers I've spoken to (who were nice enough to inform me of these rules and tricks) have said, it actually is effective. They do listen, because every person who called in to complain about not getting the cab is someone they now know they lost money on (because the cabby refused to take them).
And I realize that the things I've stated are not always going to work. There will be tricky, tricky cabbies using every trick in the book on you, but knowing these rules and trying to enforce them will force the ones with less desire for conflict to follow orders, and quite simply, that is a lot of those who try to pull these initial tricks.
I mean, don't a lot of people have cell-phones w/ some kind of video camera on them nowadays? So next time, just take out your phone, and make them say into the camera why they won't take you where you've asked. Then, if you can take the day off for the hearing, bring the video. That way you don't have to worry about a secondary hearing. If you can't make it, you can at least send in the clip as evidence. I'm sure an admin hearing could accept it.
Wow, terribly sorry about the multiple posts. It kept telling me there was an error and it didn't post so I tried again. Oh well. Internets lying.
i'm going to a taxi hearing next week, to report a driver who flat out said he doesn't go to brooklyn. Mind you, he picked me up in lower soho, and I live immediately over the manhattan bridge. I sat in his car for 5 minutes arguing with him. I was really sick at the time and seriously did not have the energy to take the subway.
I don't understand why cab drivers take the job if they're not willing to do it, although I'd be willing to pay them a lot more if they were actually courteous, drove safely, etc...
The talk radio thing really gets me -- apparently most cabbies are militant Republicans??? Weird. Few things are worse than being stuck in traffic listening to political claptrap...
However, I used to take car services to and from the airport, but I stopped b/c I had a few bad experiences with the drivers using the ride as a chance to hit on me for an hour. I would fake pretending to be asleep, but then one does want to keep one's eyes open to watch where the car is going... those drivers seemed a lot creepier than your average cabbie.
I actually don't mind cabbies talking on cell phones. It keeps them from talking to me -- I'm not a "strike up a conversation with a stranger" kind of person and it drives me crazy when I get a cab driver who wants to be my friend. I don't blame them - some people are just extroverts - but in all I'd rather he was on the phone than talking to me.
@ 41/42/43 - yes, some cabbies definitely keep the doors locked until you tell them where you're going, and once they hear "Brooklyn" they slam on the gas. Especially on New Year's Eve!!! I didn't know you had to go to court to complain -- that's awful! Wow, I am really curious how this undercover investigation turns out.
This is a Homeland Security operation to catch Osama.
@cwbuecheler -
I understand you completely. Sometimes I wish I can close the window in the partition as they are in mid sentence.