Gothamist: Bad Ad Ideas: Pakistan Airlines, 1979

hillrider

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:52:42 -0500

Can somebody explain the physics of how shadows work in Pakistan? The only way I can make it work is if the 747 was flying AWAY *FROM* the towers. Incidentally, there are tons of ads of planes+landmarks around.

jfontane

Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:59:30 -0500

ROTFL: do you have a citation?

ROTFL

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:51:32 -0500

I work in pharmaceutical advertising. The Thorazine ad is real and has been featured in pharma ad retrospectives several times. It is NOT a direct-to-consumer ad -- it ran in medical journals only. It is true that DTC ads for prescription drugs did not exist before the 1980s. However, ads aimed at doctors have existed at least since the 1920s. I've also seen most of the rest of these ads elsewhere, and I'm certain all of them are real. What is it that is making people proclaim they're "fake"? What are the supposed tell-tale signs? I'm curious.

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:40:21 -0500

jfontane: when i was in college the net barely existed. i saw this in a mag unless that mag was a fake back then... i will see i i can dig it up from my professor, this will take aq few weeks to dig up... can we continue off-line? here's my email: edexnyc[at]gmail[com]

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:38:39 -0500

gossipgirl: *VIA PIA* is only creepy cuz it happened more than 20 years later? Not so much. - - - If a gorilla attacked the ESB would the King Kong be discounted as creepy? Not so much.

jfontane

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:23:21 -0500

1)Comic Book Guy -- you're using a website called "Deco Dog's Ephemera" to definitively prove your point? some of the materials posted on that website may be marketing materials sent directly to doctors or in medical journals. But show me an ad actually physically located in a magazine, with date, page number, citation and I'll retract my point. plus: does anyone really think Thorazine would have placed an ad showing a crazy old man waving a cane? what intended market would that reach? 2) edEx writes "The PIA ad is real." I'd be glad to take your word for it, but can you show me some verifiable proof? Did you see that edition of Le Point magazine, or just some online image of it, which could easily have been doctored, as emilydickinson points out? I did a database search in proquest for any reference to this advertisement -- wouldn't it maybe get at least one reference in any newspaper or magazine? and it yielded zero responses. 3) Generally speaking, why are people so quick to believe any nonsense they see on the Internet? If materials are not posted without verifiable proof, people should be extremely skeptical. What separates modern times from the Dark Ages? In the latter period people were ruled by superstition, rumor and other nonverifiable sources of information. The Internet is doing its part to bring back those good times.

gossipgirl

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:58:54 -0500

Okay edEx, those 2 ads, not NEARLY as creepy.

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:42:56 -0500

The PIA ad is real. I have seen this ad prior to 9/11 in college and again post 9/11. at that time (if you have done a shred of research) the WTC Twin Towers were very iconic and everyone wanted to use them in adverting and film so it should be of no surprise that they're used in an international airline ad. also, arab terrorism against the west was in its very infancy at that time—no relation. here are two more ads that use the world trade center as the focal point, that are as creepy or creepier. http://bp0.blogger.com/__XCWUd8FFjQ/RhUaPb4gkaI/AAAAAAAAArM/wTCfDh7LF1Q/s1600-h/WTCasbestos.jpg http://bp2.blogger.com/__XCWUd8FFjQ/Ruae-ifIZjI/AAAAAAAABqY/oqd0fQDIyww/s1600-h/WTCad1984.jpg frankly, this memorial fund ad is more offensive: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2678/1252/1600/wherewereyou.0.jpg

Comic Book Guy

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:26:31 -0500

Ahem, silence please! @ jfontane: http://www.decodog.com/inven/psychological2.html I believe a "pwned" is quite in order!

coneyislandist

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:46:31 -0500

Best description of disaronnoblog yet, famdoc.

gothamistgal

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:31:21 -0500

"I'm in the wrong business...I wish I had a "P.A." that would fact check blogs for me, while I sat on my ass reading blogs needing to be fact checked." Heh... :-)

peachfuzzbutt

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:13:50 -0500

This whole post is stupid. Reminds me of those TIME LIFE books. "PIA had an ad in 1979 that featured a plane and the twin towers. More than 20 years later, 9/11 happened. Coincidence?"

jfontane

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:02:28 -0500

Edex and Emily Dickinson, I should have been more specific. Prescription Drugs (such as Thorazine) were not advertised directly to consumers at that time. The source for this is a July 22, 2003 statement to the The Senate Special Committee on Aging by Janet Woodcock, M.D., at the time the Director, Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, Food and Drug Administration, Department of Health and Human Services. http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t030722b.html "Prior to the early 1980s, prescription products were not promoted directly to consumers and patients. At that time, FDA's regulation of promotional drug material was limited to that which manufacturers prepared to present to physicians and other health care professionals. In the early 1980s, a few companies began advertising products directly to patient audiences (specifically, older people concerned about pneumonia and people taking prescription ibuprofen to treat arthritis pain). As questions and concerns directed to the Agency about such DTC promotion began to grow, FDA issued a policy statement on September 2, 1983, requesting a voluntary moratorium on DTC ads."

Roger McDowell

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:57:55 -0500

I'm in the wrong business...I wish I had a "P.A." that would fact check blogs for me, while I sat on my ass reading blogs needing to be fact checked.

oinonio

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:44:54 -0500

There is nothing creepy about the PIA ad more than 20 years old. If this logic were used universally, we'd constantly be freaking out over history's "prediction" of the present.

emilydickinson

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:27:07 -0500

That is incorrect about the Thorazine ad actually. A bit of checking shows that those types of ads were extremely common in print magazines, as well as posters for doctor's offices. A quick search on ebay and elsewhere will turn up dozens of similar drug ads from teh early 50's onwards.

famdoc

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:23:56 -0500

I guessed I asked for it, DiSaronno. Nice blog. It reminds me of some of the detritus on that flight.

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:21:10 -0500

jfontane: can you please cite the proof that D2C Pharma advertising was illegal prior to 1950/60. I worked in the pharma industry for a long time and while i am young we had huge libraries of old mags and many of these ads exist. there was no such law that stated otherwise.

emilydickinson

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:14:06 -0500

@jfontane: I work in the 'industry', so I tracked down the agency and had my p.a. check it out. It's already after work in IT, but this is causing a huge uproar, so I'm not the only person onto this. Here's the thing though, I should have been more clear, I know that that agency did that ad for PIA,and it ran, I'm working on getting the original copy right now, but there is a possibility that someone may have photoshopped the shadow into the original ad. So I'm working on veryfying that at the moment. I also checked with PIA's PR department but they aren't making a statement at the moment, which strikes me as slightly odd, because if it is fake they would be telling every pr wonk who calls that right off the bat and a press release would be on the wires already. It's after midnight it Karachi where PIA is based, so imagine we'll here something from them in the middle of the night EST.

coneyislandist

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:07:56 -0500

Here is my response to famdoc's sob story.

jfontane

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:52:02 -0500

emilydickinson, how did you verify the ad is real? I realize there is a picture of the ad along with text allegedly from Le Point magazine, but has anyone seen an actual March 19, 1979 copy of the magazine? there are not copies available in local NYC libraries. On the 2spare.com website, at least one of the other "10 creepy ads" is definitely fake -- the one for Thorazine, since direct-to-consumer pharmaceutical advertising was not legally allowed in the 1950s/60s when that ad is purported to be from.

JacqueMehoff

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:48:48 -0500

this was in 1979, everything was spooky then when you compare it to present day. Kids played in the streets, we had cap guns, etc.

JenChungsBra

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:35:30 -0500

Besides, the shadow clearly shows a 747, and everyone knows that there were no 747s used on 9/11.

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:35:10 -0500

here's the ad torn from a magazine: http://www.fakepilot.com/blog/wp-content/pia_ad1.jpg

edEx

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:32:16 -0500

I have seen this before. Being that the ad came more than 20 years before 9/11 I really do not see what the big deal is. al Qaeda didn't exist, the Taliban were our friends and Osama was a rich Arab drinking martini's in Europe.

emilydickinson

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:31:42 -0500

Ok, I just confirmed that it is real ad. It was done by Dolci Advertising, an Italian ad firm that has been around since 1962. PIA's NYC PR department won't cofirm or deny at the moment [no comment], I imagine they are waiting for someone in PK to figure out what will be in their press release.

Nick S

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:30:46 -0500

fuck, does this mean we're invading pakistan next?

Tim N.

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:14:51 -0500

There was an even spookier ad taken out by a group that was protesting the building of the WTC back in the late 60s which actually showed a jet flying into one of the buildings. The point then was that the buildings were too tall. I remember seeing it in the Times after the 11th. BTW, Virgil, you're gecko doesn't talk?

freddyhere

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:08:30 -0500

Those old ads are hilarious, especially the Thorazine bit...

virgil

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:58:42 -0500

There are things about this ad which do not conform precisely to reality as I know it, which is deeply troubling to me. I'm also starting to suspect that geckos do not actually have cockney accents.

jfontane

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:56:43 -0500

I strongly suspect this ad is fake, as are several other of the ads posted in that list of 10. It's hard to verify this, but I plan to check with PIA and Le Point.

JRod5417

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:55:36 -0500

That ad makes me wonder where Osama got his inspiration for 9/11.

bnystudio

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:55:28 -0500

projectile in action.

chuzzlewit

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:48:33 -0500

wouldn't the shadow get smaller as the plane neared? the shadow in the illustration suggests one whopper of a plane...

mookie

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:48:07 -0500

i hope none of the debris landed on the chrysler building, which of course sat right next to the wtc in those days.

drewo

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:47:40 -0500

Wrong building in the background (should be the Woolworth Building not the Chrysler) ruins it all for me.

gossipgirl

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:42:48 -0500

oh.my.god.

emilydickinson

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:36:39 -0500

I'd be really interested to hear Doug Rushkoff, Richard Metzger or Grant Morrison's take on this. Sympathetic magick anyone?

MaiaW

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:30:47 -0500

Yeah, wow - that is spooky.

famdoc

Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:14:04 -0500

I'll never forget my first and only flight on PIA. It was about ten years ago. I was flying eight of us to Paris, so I went through a ticket consolidator, who gave me, I think, a $149 fare each way. The plane was 12 hours late. They bused us to a sleazy motel in Queens where they served us frozen food. Although they indicated they would then put us up in a hotel, they made us believe the plane would be ready sooner than expected, so they bused us back to JFK. Eight sleepless hours later, we boarded a smelly, dirty aircraft that was stuffed to the brim with luggage and people, most of whom were going on to Karachi. Every few hours, the pilot indicated the time and the direction of Mecca and most of the passengers got out of their seats to pray. The on-board entertainment was Ben Hur. Seriously. The food was reheated, frozen Pak. The toilets overflowed. Most of the passengers did not share my concern for cleanliness and use of deodorant. Diapers were not changed. When they were, they were left out to dry. By the time we arrived in Paris, I was being threatened with divorce by my wife and the rest of the family were ready to return to New York. A few pleasant days in Paris, followed by a seaside cottage in Brittany made everyone feel a bit better, however.