they need to find out the meds she was on - and was she a drinker prior to the meds.

Police brutality at airports is out of control. Especially when the police beat up/kill young women and mothers. This is similar to the police beating of the young woman at Reagan National Airport in DC except she suffered brain damage and is still alive. My thoughts and prayers go out to Carol Ann Gotbaum's family. http://youtube.com/watch?v=XPNmxZwhMag

If I got stuck in that airport, I'd be loud and uncooperative too. That airport sucks. And it's too freakin hot.

They say Carol "Ended up" on the floor. "Ended up" would not be accepted in a police report.

From the police report her crime was being loud and uncooperative. Her sentence was DEATH.

#78: I guess it's nice to hear what the defendents have to say about why the woman they manhandled died. interesting that they managed to include the bit about her substance abuse problem. No intention to smear the victim in anticipation of criminal proceedings, I'm sure...

The story is more complicated:

GOTBAUM TWIST

WITNESS: SHE MAY HAVE DIED BEFORE CELL

By LORENA MONGELLI and DAVID SCHWARTZ Post Correspondents

October 4, 2007 -- A witness saw cops carrying a "noncombative, not resisting" Carole Anne Gotbaum into a Phoenix airport holding cell and "wondered if she was dead," her family's lawyer said yesterday.

The new account suggests that the daughter-in-law of Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum already was dying, possibly of asphyxia, before she was placed, handcuffed and shackled, in the cell Friday, said the lawyer, Michael Manning.

That version of the events was flatly contradicted by Phoenix cops, who claimed last night in their first detailed narrative of what they say happened that Gotbaum had fought with officers but was not hurt.



(excerpt)

--------

Sometimes the cops overreact and kill someone --sometimes with 41 bullets, sometimes with a stranglehold, sometimes with a knee placed on the back that crushes the ribcage. It happens too frequently and when it happens the people who've done the killing must be held accountable.

The young man in Florida who was tazered was LOUD too. I guess being LOUD is a crime today. Who knew?

THE FOLLOWING UPDATED INFORMATON WAS PROVIDED BY PHOENIX POLICE INVESTIGATORS AS DETERMINED FROM AT LEAST 15 WITNESS STATEMENTS, 5 OFFICER STATEMENTS, AND OTHER INVESTIGATIVE INFORMATION:



On Friday September 29, 2007 Ms. Gotbaum flew unescorted and alone to Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix Arizona. She was supposed to then fly to Tucson Arizona. Per the airline, Ms. Gotbaum was denied access to that flight in Terminal 4. There was a subsequent verbal altercation at the gate in Concourse B between Ms. Gotbaum and the gate attendant. Ms. Gotbaum became agitated and loud and at some point threw her hand held PDA, just missing a citizen, which broke into pieces. Ms. Gotbaum left the gate area.



At approximately 2:49 P.M. Phoenix Police officers working at the airport received a radio call of a woman being loud and disturbing at Concourse B of Terminal 4. The officers responded and located Ms. Gotbaum on the Concourse area. This was a secure area of the airport, an area where everyone had already cleared the TSA security checkpoint. There were a number of witnesses there. Before the officers contacted Ms. Gotbaum, they heard her yelling and observed her actions. They then contacted Ms. Gotbaum and did try to calm her down, but she continued to yell and scream. Within approximately 15 seconds of contacting her, they were joined by a third officer and attempted to arrest her for disorderly conduct by disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor offense. The arrest time was approximately 2:53 P.M.



Ms. Gotbaum did not want to be arrested, and the officers and Ms. Gotbaum ended up on the floor as they tried to handcuff her. No one got hurt and the officers did not use pepper spray or a taser. The officers then picked Ms. Gotbaum up on her feet and two officers then began to escort her to a holding area. Ms. Gotbaum was handcuffed with her hands behind her back, per Phoenix Police Department policy. Ms. Gotbaum was still uncooperative and the officers had to periodically slide her forward with one officer holding each arm in order to get her to the holding area.



At the holding area office in Terminal 4 Ms. Gotbaum was placed in a holding room which is a small room with a solid door and a small window. There were approximately 7 police employees in the holding area office at the time. A female officer came over to do the search. (Incidentally, just the day before, this officer had saved a life at the airport with an AED.) While being searched, Ms. Gotbaum continued to be uncooperative and did not allow herself to be searched. Ms. Gotbaum was then additionally restrained as follows: In the holding room there is a bench with an “eyehook” attached to it. The officers took a “shackle”, which is described as a metal chain, approximately 16” long, with a large “handcuff” on each side. The total length of the chain with handcuffs is approximately 24’’. One of the handcuffs on the “shackle” was attached to the “eyehook” on the bench. The other handcuff of the shackle was attached to the chain of the handcuffs that were already on Ms. Gotbaum’s hands. So Ms. Gotbaum was handcuffed with her hands behind her back, and additionally those handcuffs were attached to a shackle that kept her attached to the bench. At this time, officers felt due to their experience and the actions that had taken place Ms. Gotbaum was not a threat to others or to herself. (Had Ms. Gotbaum been deemed to be a threat to herself, per Phoenix Police policy, she would have been monitored by an officer. As it was, Phoenix Police policy states that prisoners can be alone in holding rooms and checked on once every 15 minutes.) Ms. Gotbaum was simply being loud and uncooperative.

Officers had no information at this time that Ms. Gotbaum had traveled unescorted and alone from New York City to Phoenix, Arizona in order to seek treatment for a substance abuse issue as was later released by others. Again, officers were totally unaware of this information. At that point officers left the holding room and went to the holding office just outside the holding room. Ms. Gotbaum continued to yell and scream. Investigators told me that they have determined definitively that Ms. Gotbaum was alone for 6 to 8 minutes. She continued to be loud. When she stopped the officers went to check on her. Again, this took place in the 6 to 8 minute time frame that Ms. Gotbaum was alone in the holding room.



The officers found Ms. Gotbaum unconscious. Initial information as reported previously indicated that Ms. Gotbaum had somehow worked the handcuffs to the front of her body, probably from under her legs, and had pulled the chain from the shackle across her neck area. Again, the medical examiner will determine the manner and cause of death.



The officers immediately called for the fire department, removed the handcuffs and shackle, and began life saving measures to try to save Ms. Gotbaum. The officers began mouth to mouth resuscitation and CPR. While doing mouth to mouth resuscitation Ms. Gotbaum vomited into one officer’s mouth. The officer spit up himself but continued to do mouth to mouth resuscitation while CPR continued. The officers also attempted to use an AED. Several minutes later the fire department arrived and took over the life saving attempts. These continuous attempts did not work and Ms. Gotbaum was pronounced dead by the fire department personnel at approximately 3:29 P.M.

#50: How do I make the connection between the rise of a police state and this incident? It has to do with the attitudes prevalent in these comments. You cannot have a police state without the consent of the public. Going by the tone of these posts, the public doesn't see any problem with people who act up in public ending up dead in police custody. Get it?

It was probably an unintentional death. I have seen it once during an arrest of a person high on pcp, it took numerous officers to subdue and handcuff him. However immediately after handcuffing the person it was realized that something was wrong and this person was transported to the emergency room where he died shortly thereafter. In this case however, witnesses say that the 105 pound woman was brutally tackled to the floor and that she was arrested while one of the officers placed a knee into her back. Carol was then taken into the holding cell where she was either further accosted or simply died of the injuries of her arrest. It would seem that officers then panicked and came up with the story that she then strangled herself, which I think they will come to regret. I question all comments of she was late, unruly, and deserved to die. I frankly think the posters are self-serving. Police officers are paid your money to think clearly and act rationally. Arresting a screaming, possibly intoxicated female is an everyday occurrence, and one that does not require excessive force or zeal.

This is interesting. Hill denies the police knew she was there for a substance abuse problem, which I find to be unbelievable, given everything she was saying..and the phone call from her husband. CYA of the Phoenix Police Dept.

Read this:http://www.theaviationnation.c...

Phoenix police department claim they have a video of the arrest. I don't know why it is not being released, unless they are editing it.

#68

"Michael Manning who was hired by the family to monitor the police investigation,said the private investigator who watched the official autopsy said numerous bruises were scattered across Gotbaum's body.

The body shows signs of a struggle,there are ligature marks and some of those ligature marks

match the chain that was used to chain her to the bench."

These were not prior bruises as a result of being an alcoholic, nor were they bruises inflicted upon arrest. These happened after she was in custody. What happened? Do you think an investigation is warranted?

According to some reports, the initial autopsy was inconclusive and it could takes weeks before more details are known.

64, this is 63...

your analogy of the subway system isn't even CLOSE to making sense. apples and oranges.

an awful LOT OF WRONG has to happen for a person to end up DEAD in police custody in an airport.

i can't believe so many people are willing to write off the dead person, because she was troubled, or unruly...does that mean you can end up DEAD, and deserve no QUESTIONS?

DEAD. because of a ruckus at an airport? drunk, shouldn't end up dead. high, shouldn't end up dead, obnoxious shouldn't end up dead. loud, screaming crazy should NOT end up DEAD.

PLEASE. it's not even a little bit understandable at this point.

i really want to hear more about those autopsy reports.

And, as I believe, the post-mortem was not "inconclusive". The prelim post was witheld pending tox and Wecht's post. The ME's job is to determine the cause (the physical or chemical mechanism) and manner (homicide, suicide, therapeautic misadventure, natural, accidental) of death. There is not (that I've seen) any official post report. I would advise either revising the first line of this article, clarifying or providing a link to the official "inconclusive" report.

On such a touchy issue, with such strong feelins amongst the many, I would advise accuracy and close attention to detail rather than vague uncited statements.

Dadoc

I love how the family says she was a "wonderful mother." Yeah, so wonderful that she tried to off herself twice, even with three kids younger than 10 years of age.

And if anyone wants to try to control an outta control EDP without a few bruises, go right ahead. How about the safety of the other travellers? When you lose it, become physically out of control, and need to be controlled, if you do not cooperate, you will be bruised. Also alcoholics tend to be kinda generally bruised anyway.

Dadoc

Um, I think everyone should wait until the final post-mortem, including toxicology. Vids would be helpful. And yes, she was arrested, but acted like an EDP. She was hammered, D&D, outta control. Shoulda been arrested, controlled (as she was), EMS called AND supervised (as she was not). Blame all parties, bad combo of events, bad outcome. Don't blame the cops or the deceased. Most systems can withstand a few smaller errors in parts of the system. But have either a major error, or just the right combo of smaller errors, and planes splash, buildings crash, and poop happens.

Fell kinda bad for everyone involved.

Dadoc

NO ONE SHOULD EVER DIE IN POLICE CUSTODY. HEAR HEAR.