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Early Addition
Photographs of frustrated subway riders by md76 on Flickr
While this morning's commute seems better, most mass transit riders are still confused, frustrated and even betrayed by the subway system and other rail service coming to a stand still during the Wednesday morning rush hour. The MTA admitted that the service was not acceptable on many accounts, from the flooding to the fact that the MTA's website was overwhelmed. Then there's also the fact that the MTA was urging people not to take the subways and opt for a bus instead, only for buses to be (A) few and far between and (B) crowded as anything.
MTA CEO Lee Sander said, "We really are sorry about the inconvenience that New Yorkers had to deal with. In terms of how it happened, we had three inches of rain in an hour. The system is designed to handle 1.5 inches." The MTA put some fault on the city's 19th century sewage system. The sewage system can "double as a storm drain" and "handle steady rain," but the DEP says that "intense, high inch-count rain events, over a short period of time" can challenge the system. (The DEP says it's spending $300 million a year to upgrade its systems and build a better drainage system.) Governor Spitzer ordered a review of the MTA's drainage systems within 30 days, but we bet we can already predict the results - the drainage systems are screwed and the only way to fix them is millions of dollars the MTA doesn't necessarily have (hello, fare hike!).
People attempting to get onto a bus by Unlisted Sightings on Flickr
Yesterday's storm, and ensuing subway mess, echoed what happened when Hurricane Frances visited on September 8, 2004. Rain paralyzed the subway system, and people attempted to get onto buses or share taxis during the deluge. What's really helpful is knowing that the MTA refused to take blame for that incident. The MTA even suggested that free newspapers clogged up drains.
Here's a description of why heavy rains totally mess up the city's subways from the NY Times:
Paul Fleuranges, a spokesman for New York City Transit, said that the subway tunnels were prone to flooding during heavy rains in the same way as the basements of many homes. Even without rain, groundwater routinely gets into a subway system and on a typical day with no rain, 13 million gallons of water are pumped out of the subway.Okay. So why don't other subways of the world and of the U.S. flood? Well, some explanations/excuses are that much of NYC is built under sea level, that it's surrounded by water, and many stations are close to the surface.During very heavy rains, Mr. Fleuranges said, additional water pours into the system through grates in the sidewalk and through the subway entrances. Water then collects in the tunnels, and once the water reaches the rails, the trains cannot run.
That is because the rails contain electrical circuits that communicate with the signal system, indicating when a train is on a particular section of track. If the rails are covered with water, the signal system cannot work.
And if water reaches the third rail, which is 10 inches above the track bed, power must be shut off.
Photograph of people walking to work instead of taking mass transit by dietrich on Flickr
What did the mayor, a sometime-subway rider, think? The Sun had this Mayor Mike quote, from his Bay Ridge tornado press conference, "I don't know that God has rush hour in mind when storms hit."
MTA CEO Sander also said that the National Weather Service did not predict the level of rain that came and suggested that MTA build its own weather center, "I take the system basically daily and so I certainly appreciate it. The fact is we have a 100-year-old system, and that is a constraint. We may be dealing with meteorological conditions that are unprecedented. It certainly looks that way in the last seven months." Some recent rain-to-subway flooding incidents occurred on June 28 and July 18.
The funny thing is that the mess occurred the day after City Comptroller Bill Thompson issued a report saying that the city and state have been shortchanging the MTA out of money for over a decade. He said that there was $728 million in revenue from a number a sources, which would help defray the billion dollar deficit the MTA is facing. Yesterday, Thompson issued a press release pointing out that the MTA has been delaying repairs to infrastructure for too long, "Time and again, the riding public has been inconvenienced because the State has not appropriately invested in New York City Transit’s infrastructure." We can only hope that given other incidents, it's time to inject infrastructure into every single conversation an official has.
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I managed to snag a bus from 86th and Lex to Central Park West, not knowing that the west side was shut down too. I ended up walking 47 blocks south to get to work (~2.4 miles). There were hordes of others doing the same thing.
Figures that yesterday was the muggiest, most uncomfortable morning we've had so far this year, and today when everything is working again (mostly) it's gorgeous out.
The lede should be the Thompson story: that the City and State have been systematically screwing the average New Yorker for 10 years by shortchanging the MTA.
Republican Governors and Republican mayors should never, EVER be allowed to take office again.
although it was a fluke incident, the rain and flooding, it's no excuse for the MTA to not be ready for an emergency, which this clearly was.
I was in Brooklyn and not one MTA employee was to be found (as usual) at 900AM directing people to a usable station or a working bus. In fact, there were no shuttle or city busses—none! The make-shift signs telling people there was no trian service were written in ball point pen, barely legible and the promise of train service being back at 12:00PM was a joke. 1/2 hour to 45 minute waiting times on the platform in 100 degree-plus heat and humidity.
The response was just unacceptable, especially after hearing time and again from them that they're ready for a major disaster...
my commute from the UWS to the financial district was pretty miserable this morning. managed to get a C train at the 81st street around 7:45 am, but that train lurched and lurched as it went along. i didn't walk into my office until 9:15am.....a 1.5 hour commute for what typically takes 35 mins.
More specifically, the blame for this looting of the MTA budget can be laid at the feet of George Pataki and Rudy Giuliani, two wretched, unredeemed pieces of shit.
If yesterday morning taught us anything, it was that we need more Green Roofs throughout the city. A ton of that runoff water would have stayed out of the subway system if we had more plants on our roofs, buildings would save money on energy, and we wouldn't have to rely on the MTA to bail us out of a rain storm.
Part of the problem with flooding is that garbage blocks the drains on the track bed and all the deferred maintenance in the 1970s and 1980s catching up.
I think America as a whole isn't prepared for emergencies.
What would they have done differently if they had known these storms were coming? I don't understand why they keep saying these storms caught them by surprise. Also, according to the National Weather Service, we had 1.7 inches of rain, not 3. Well it probably varied from locale to locale, but Central Park had 1.7 or so.
Do you know how many people commuted by scooter yesterday? No, because you didn't even consider it as an option in your poll. While everyone was stranded, I scooted to work, no problem. Same as during the blackout. Stop relying on the city, if you can't or won't bike, get a scooter already! :-)
I ended up walking 47 blocks south to get to work (~2.4 miles).
Awww. . . you want a medal?
Republican Governors and Republican mayors should never, EVER be allowed to take office again.
You're an idiot. I guess if Koch, Dinkins, and Cuomo had done their job the infrastructure would be in place. If you think an all Democratic government wouldn't divert money to pork spending in their districts then you obviously know nothing about politics. And if you think spending billions to install equipment for the kind of rainfall that happens once every five years is a good use of money then I'm glad you don't hold office.
#6, green roofs are nice but I don't think any roof is going to catch three inches of rain in one hour.
worked nicely for me -- i got onto an F train at 2nd ave for free because the turnstiles were off so they let people in the emergency exit. almost no wait at all at around 8:30. yeah the train was super crowded, but i'll take crowded for not paying the $2. !!
"So why don't other subways of the world and of the U.S. flood?"
This is actually a very misleading and untrue statement. Flooding plagues subway systems in cities across the world. I used to live outside of Boston where heavy rains could bring the subway line to a stand-still for several days.
Incidentally, I took the L-train when there were (according to NY1) supposed no L-trains runnings. The train was no crowded and I even got a seat...my experience after I transfered to the F was, uh, quite different though.
people shouldn't be upset with the MTA exclusively. maybe they're not super prepared, maybe the system wasn't designed for every possible flood capacity scenario, etc. but if people are messing up the system by throwing trash on the tracks, they're to blame as well. not to mention people driving gas-guzzling cars contributing to global weather change. and corporations who produce greenhouse gasses. and governments who won't sign treaties to restrict the production of said gases. etc. etc. you can't be myopic and try to point fingers in just one direction.
Oh shut up with the global warming and antu-SUV crap. If we were in the Kyoto treaty every ton of CO2 we cut would be offset ten times over by China. Not saying we shouldn't do better but if you actually think global warming can be stopped then you are living in fantasyland. There are plenty of studies that say if we cut all CO2 ouputs today the planet would keep warming for 50 more years.
I was able to get to Grand Central by taking the 7 train (I live off the 7 in Queens), but once I got to GC, I was stranded.
The 4,5,6 were all out, so I tried to catch the M103--One came by about 8 am (when I got from the train station to the bus stop near GC), then after that countless empty buses with the NEXT BUS PLEASE logo on top passed (which was very infuriating).
After an hour and no more M103 buses to be seen I went back inside the GC station to check and see if the 4,5,6 was running yet. They were not, so seeing as though I am in my 8th month of pregnancy I decided after a grand attempt to get to Lower Manhattan, I would get back on the 7 train and head home. It really does suck having to take off work and loose time when it is beyond one's control. I think the MTA needs to have a better plan to get more buses moving on days when there may be a problem with the trains (like when rain is in the forecast). What happened was not acceptable. Had there been a train I could have made it to work, but a pregnant gal can not wait for hours when it is so hot and humid.
Why is there supposed to be an increase in transit fare again?? I did not see any great attempt to get me or the many others stranded to where they needed to go.
The communication was horrible between conductors, bus drivers, and subway station attendants. No one knew where to send people, and no one was on the street guiding confused commuters to bus stops....It was very chaotic and very much a disaster of a day.
"I think America as a whole isn't prepared for emergencies"
what? do you live in a cave? i think it's the MTA and Con Ed (at least in this city) who repeatedly cannot get their shit straight and sadly, nothing happens to them—no fines, no trials, no punishment, nothing! we as "the people" bitch and moan, and blame, but do nothing (the blame for this situation goes to the execs aty the MTA)...
a great example of this blaming but taking no accountability , and although it's off-topic, is the situation in Newark, NJ—blaming the mayor, blaming the police, blaming the governor, blaming whites, blaming blacks, it's the fucking people as a whole! no one takes accountability and thus the problem never gets fixed, it just gets worse and the circle continues...
I really don't understand all this, "Get a scooter!", "Ride a bike!" nonsense. This is a city of 10 million people; mass transit is responsible, eco-friendly, logical, and -- usually -- much, much faster than driving or (ahem) taking a scooter. Rather than telling people to ride scooters (which sounds more ridiculous each time I type it), we should all be encouraging the city, state and MTA to step up to the plate and invest more money and work into the system. I feel like Mayor Bloomberg ought to have a big hand in this; regardless of how you feel about him, he's (obviously) a great businessman, and this sort of thing -- figuring out solutions to difficult, pricey problems -- is exactly what businessmen are built for.
But back to the scooter thing for a minute: riding the subway does not make anyone a patsy; it makes one an evolved member of society. Cars, scooters, and anything else designed for one or a few people that uses gas should be straight-up outlawed. I wish (and this is totally never going to happen, I know) they would outlaw all cars except for taxi cabs, buses, and delivery trucks in the city, or at least in Manhattan. Can you imagine how much better the buses would run without all those superfluous vehicles clogging every single street?
it seems like the issue here isn't "what can the MTA do to be prepared for a big huge storm?" but rather "what can the MTA do to be prepared for the eventuality of a subway shutdown?" there are other reasons the subways might need to stop, and having systems in place to handle shut-downs of any kind would make a big difference.
i took the L train at 9:30 and didn't actually know anything was wrong until i got to union square.
@20 i agree, my main beef with the mta over yesterday is not the fact that the subways were shut down, but the way in which it was handled
shit happens, things break, but give us some fucking information!
@11 - "Awww. . . you want a medal?"
Yes. White gold or platinum, please, with a blue silk strap. It should contain my image with beams of light coming forth from it, walking down the street, as all others stop and stare in awe.
@19 - "I wish (and this is totally never going to happen, I know) they would outlaw all cars except for taxi cabs, buses, and delivery trucks in the city, or at least in Manhattan."
I'd vote yes. Although you'd probably have to include some kind of clause for moving trucks and such. Also, you're right about the scooter crap. Yes, it makes one independent of the MTA's infrastructure, figuratively, but it's neither as fast or efficient in overall terms as good public transportation is.
One more thing: I know this is certainly the exception, but yesterday morning at 7:45 I had no trouble getting on the JMZ at Marcy Ave, then the F at Delancey/Essex -- and when, from W. 4th on, the F switched to the C line, all the announcements I heard were very clear and legible.
Again, this obviously isn't the majority of what happened, but it's worth presenting the dissenting opinion, as it were.
"I don't think GOD had rush hour in mind when storms hit"... It's scary that our mayor thinks this was an act of some space dwelling spirit master. God has nothing to do with weather patterns.
holy shit new yorkers are a bunch of whiny bitches.
@22 -- Of course. Any sort of thing that can't be done via mass transit, you could use a car/truck. Moving, deliveries, commercial business, etc. Basically just the idea would be no more schmos driving from Brooklyn (or wherever; if you live within 50 miles of New York City you have no need to ever drive a car) to work in Manhattan. That is just beyond-the-pale and ridiculous. You love your car so much? Move the fuck to L.A. I dream of a car-free wonderland. Maybe one day -- ideally before the world's supply of gas runs low and we all start killing each other for what's left -- we as a race will be able to kick the addictive, destructive "car habit."
@22 -- Of course. Any sort of thing that can't be done via mass transit, you could use a car/truck. Moving, deliveries, commercial business, etc. Basically just the idea would be no more schmos driving from Brooklyn (or wherever; if you live within 50 miles of New York City you have no need to ever drive a car) to work in Manhattan. That is just beyond-the-pale and ridiculous. You love your car so much? Move the fuck to L.A. I dream of a car-free wonderland. Maybe one day -- ideally before the world's supply of gas runs low and we all start killing each other for what's left -- we as a race will be able to kick the addictive, destructive "car habit."
The only part that I don't understand is why this has become a much more frequent occurrence in recent years. I grew up in New York and took the subway to the city on a daily basis for many years in the mid-90s, when the state of the infrastructure was supposedly worse than it is now. And it rained just as hard on occasion yet I do not recall the subway shutting down because of flooding EVER. I remember one particularly rainy day when friends and I ditched class and frolicked in the park as water cascaded down the sidewalk yet we were able to take the train home with no problems whatsoever. Did they remove some water pumps since then?!
I think we are missing the big picture. Nature and the infrastructure are what they are. The problem is that the city is a heavily cemented and non absorbtive environment that puts a tremendous amount of stress onto an undersized system. The only way to prevent flooding is to find a place to run or hold the water. Since much of the infrastructure is below grade, and sea level, we have to find solutions that help the system by reducing the volume of water going into the system. Solution; Require new and existing building construction to implement strategies that help contain water before it gets to the ground. If you capture, and maybe even use it, then you don't have to worry about finding a path to the sea. We're talking green streets, containment vaults and greenroofs here people. It can be that simple. Oh, and by the way don't plan on going swimming this weekend at the sewage filled beaches, since the sewage system was flooded beyond capacity as well.
Right on hslaton! The scooter/bike thing is ridiculous. And, even if that's something that people want to do, generally it requires a little forethought and planning. Extra travel time, storage, change of clothes, etc. The kind of forethought and planning that's not possible when the mass transit system suddenly shut down.
Walking is fine too, but I'd like to know if advance that I'll be walking to midtown from Brooklyn and that it will take a few extra hours to get to the office.
The worst part of this whole thing is the lack of information, the inability to make informed choices about waiting for a train, taking a bus, or giving up...I really miss the BART signs that showed how many minutes to the next train and particularly the graphical monitors in the downtown stations of SF Muni that actually showed where trains were located in the system.
It's been said before, but it bears repeating until someone in City Hall can explain it slowly and clearly to the MTA:
No reasonable expects the subway in a city this size to be perfect all the time, especially in an emergency situation.
What they have every right to expect, as customers:
Clear announcements, or signs, or Informed, helpful employees. They don't have to be friendly; they just have to do their job.
A sign at the entrance to the subway, or an informed employee, so that you don't have to pay 2 dollars to find out that the subway isn't working.
A website that is designed to handle the influx of traffic that occurs when there is an emergency. That's exactly when most people go to the site.
These are reasonable expectations, and should be part of any emergency plan anyway.
#29, there is no such building roof that can catch three inches of rain water in one hour. And what are you going to do about the water that reaches the streets? And the water that reaches Central Park and raises the water table?
Most of you whiners should move to a desert town with a stagnant population of 100. You wouldn't have to worry about the weather or the infrastructure.
I knew when I saw the title of this one, it would be another Jen Chung "beauty." From punctuation to grammar, what an adventure!
While I'm really happy infrastructure is finally getting noticed lately, I'm rather irked that people aren't a bit more measured in their critisism. It's a bit like abusing and neglecting your dog and then getting really angry when it bites you. What do you expect after years of delayed maintenance and cut budgets?
As for the flooding, the system obviously wasn't designed for that level of deluge because it doesn't happen every day. Should we really spend tens of millions of dollars on huge pumps that are used once every 5 years? Or should we perhaps expect that once in a while we are (GASP!) delayed in getting to our offices for a couple of hours while the pumps do their work. Honestly, all of those people lining up for busses, crushing in, all to get to work and hit the blogs and whinge about it as though they were the first people on earth to ever be inconvenienced. It's not like your boss isn't stuck in the same mess; Sit back, have a coffee, read the paper, wait a couple of hours and then go. "Train was delayed," best excuse to come in late ever.
Yes, riding a bike would require a bit of "forethought" -- that is, actually owning a bike. If only more people did... now granted, a bike commute within Manhattan is much easier than commuting from the boroughs (although I know there are plenty of people who do steadfastly commute in from Brooklyn and Queens), but it does kinda seem weird that more people don't consider it as an option.
Not that I'm opposed to subway/bus travel -- but all things considered, it does seem like a good idea to have another option should those systems fail.
I've had my bike handy through all the transit-impaired events of the last few years (9/11, blackout, transit strike, and events like yesterday) and therefore haven't been inconvenienced in the least by any of them transportation-wise.
I agree with the lot of you that yeasterday sucked. It was not an enjoyable experience for anyone. But everyone needs to stop blaming each other, and just figure out what to do next time. Huge rainstorms hit. It happens. That is weather. Sometimes they can cripple the city. It happens with snow storms too. I am from Houston and my whole life I've dealt with massive floods, and every time Houston has a massive flood, everyone is about, "how can we help others? how can me make sure that everyone is safe?" Many times people can't get to work or school or even out of their homes for days.
So yes, yeasterday there was a problem. And yes MTA could have done better at communicating. I also think we, as New Yorkers could have done better at communicating. For examle I walked for 4 long blocks past a lot of people coming from the Subway, nobody was will to pass the news to me that no R,V,G or E was running and I should turn around and go to the 7. If someone said something I would have saved myself 15 mins. On the other hand, as I walked back, I told people who I figured were headed to the subway. And they were thankful.
So my point is, we need to all stop complaining and pointing fingers, and start working together to fix things, ad the next time this happens, help a neighbor out.
the city had a 4 Billion dollar surplus.
Give the MTA the money for improvements if they really need it.
Most major improvements are publicly funded anyway.
They are using this as an excuse for a fare hike. DO NOT believe the propaganda! Do NOT SUPPORT A FARE HIKE!
oh but we had 3 inches in an hour, blah blah blah.
But the subway barely works on an average day!!
Fix it!!
I don't understand why the third rail has to be shut off if water reaches it. Wouldn't that much free roaming electricity make a major dent in the rat, cockroach, C.H.U.D. population?
Wow... some of you people have very limited cognitive capacities...
#33: "there is no such building roof that can catch three inches of rain water in one hour."
Yes, and therefore nothing should be done to try to catch >some
#16: "There are plenty of studies that say if we cut all CO2 ouputs today the planet would keep warming for 50 more years."
Yes, and since you'll be dead by then, I guess there's no sense in trying to do anything to alleviate the situation now...
To review: if a solution doesn't solve a problem in its entirety right now, it should be dismissed summarily instead of analyzed for cost/benefit.
*But the subway barely works on an average day!!*
bwhahahahaha! that was really funny. stupid funny, but funny nonetheless.
#41 is a moron. I never said "don't cut CO2 emissions". I was just ridiculing whoever was trying to blame the SUV drivers (I assume it was you?) for heavy rain.
And by all means, build all of the green roofs you want. and when it soaks up 1/8 of an inch of rain and the remaining 2 7/8 goes spilling into the sewers and subways don't act shocked. Again, not saying the green roof isn't a nice addition to the city but to think it actually does anything for rain is moronic. The benefit of the green roof is to cut cooling and heating costs.
i agree with #32. there was no reason that i had to pay $2 for the pleasure of waiting on a hot and humid platform for 1.5 hours while packed train after train went by. there were no announcements at 7th ave for all of rush hour and none of the conductors had any information. i had to exit the station and go home to find out that the whole system had been FUBARed. ridiculous.
The MTA's biggest problem is contingency and communication. The city should shut down major avenues and provide police support during emergencies like this and the MTA should be prepared to unleash sufficient shuttle buses along these routes to replace train lines. Furthermore, their customer communication is just insanely poor. Agents should have been everywhere helping explain the situation and helping passengers get to where they need to go, and we are so amazingly/ridiculously/infuriatingly overdue for a public address system which can audible and visually communicate delays and service changes in every station. Dispatchers should be able to audibly address and post information on digital screens in every affected station about service changes. The web site has got to be overhauled to provide real-time information and be able to handle the traffic during emergency situations.
The drainage problem probably won't be solved overnight but there are big changes they could make NOW to make this less of such an abysmal and embarrassing situation.
Personally, I'd like to hear Reality Czech's opinion on this.
You all need to stop with all the Bitching ! You all know what happens when we get any type of measurable rainfall so what's the problem ? So you had to walk a little in the hot sun ! So you could get to work and stayed home, Gud for you ! Free day off ! The problem with the MTA is the same as it's always been . They run the business like Mobsters and take all they can from us . If you want change then make sure you vote, & Save all Ur Bitching for Ur local politicians ! After all, It is their job to Fight for us correct ? The MTA management has little interest in making those types of changes for some reason, I'd think that using the guise of "Improvement" to fleece more tax dollars would be luring enough ! Apparently not . Posted by; "Still Not Amused"
I'd like to know what all of you do for a living so I can come down to your place of work and berate you for not being 100% perfect.
you're all a bunch of big babies!!!! oh gee the train was delayed for a few hours due to flooding. this happens like once or twice a year. big damn deal. so you go home put on the news and relax and wait it out.
no wait...
you can run around and get mad and complain and blame the mta for making you miserable. that's better. of course.
what was i thinking?
#43: No, you never said "don't cut CO2 emissions". You just made every excuse in the book for why it won't make a difference. And if something won't make a difference, why bother doing it?
Can't have it both ways, tool.
I think the biggest problem here was that there was absolutely NO communication.. no one in the token booths even knew what was going on with that train line, much less any OTHER train line. There was no central command center directing MTA employees on what to tell the straphangers, because the antiquated communication system doesn't allow that. I had MTA employees at the A train telling me that the F train wasn't running (when it was), and other commuters told me that they had been directed to the A train from the 2/3 and 4/5, which wasn't running.
Even with the pumps failing and the train lines shutting down, this debacle could have been avoided or at least alleviated with better communication and some sort of contingency plan.
I just realized I posted almost exactly the same thing as guest #45.
#50 So you admit you are putting words in my mouth. At least we're making progress.
I'm just taking issue with the idiot that implied that if we all drove hybrids and had signed the Kyoto treaty none of this would have happened. The reality is that some people need to demonize others.
As to why we should still try to cut emissions so that in 100 or 200 years things aren't hotter still.
So yes, I can have it both ways.
@53: Well, if that's what you meant to say, you said it really poorly.
Personally, I'd like to hear Reality Czech's opinion on this.
Well...I think the MTA is fugged up to expect that everytime it rains the subway will be flooded. I actually thought MY subway wasn't working due to a fallen tree on the tracks. I was a bit surprised to hear about the flooding. This is totaly unacceptable in a first world city. I hope all of you deduct the amount of mopney you lost from this off of your NYC tax bill.
Oh,and yes, everyone who can should try riding a bike. And scooters should not be in the same boat as cars, they take up a lot less space and use a lot less gas.
Any other questions?
@53: Well, if that's what you meant to say, you said it really poorly.
Do you really believe that it's fair to pin the current state of global warming on SUV drivers and George Bush? As if the past 100 years of industrialization never happened? and as if hopping on the Prius bandwagon in 2003 suddenly absolves you?
I think I said it perfectly well and that your reading comp skills suck balls.
This is totaly unacceptable in a first world city. I hope all of you deduct the amount of mopney you lost from this off of your NYC tax bill
the depths of your stupidity hits new lows days after day. You act as if the rest of the world doesn't have bad days. Shit happens sometimes. I know that sounds like making excuses but nothing in life is perfect.
And reality czech doesn't have a job so he can't deduct any lost income.
Nope, sorry dipshit, but I biked to work and made it ON TIME, now you shoudl get a job because obvioulsy your just a republican moron dumbass.
Excuse Reality Czech. He wears diapers.
"Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, ! That's all you people are doing ! Stop Bitching about the MTA and work on dealing with the circumstances afforded too you ! Posted by; "Still Not Amused"