August 6, 2007
Call It The Battle of Brooklyn Pizza's Two Johns
Today's new and narrow NY Times Metro section features a battle over pizza propriety. The Times reports Papa John's Pizza is opening right next door to Johnny's Pizza, a 39-year-old Sunset Park institution. John Miniaci Jr. whose father started the pizza parlor in 1968 is none too happy about this development and not just because Papa John's is a blight upon the very word pizza: Miniaci's father died just a month ago. In fact John Jr. knew about the franchise's plan to move in before his father died, but couldn't bear to tell him.
This isn't the first time a national chain has wrangled with the borough whose very name is synonymous with great slices. We all remember Domino's abominable Brooklyn Style Pizza and its equally abominable ad campaign with its caricature-like portrait of life in the County of Kings. But this new Papa John's franchise is quite literally too close to home. Thankfully residents of the tightly-knit community are not taking battle of the two John's lying down.
A petition “to stop the establishment of Papa John’s in our neighborhood.” has been signed by more than 2,000 folks and sent to the company's headquarters in that bastion of fine pizza, Kentucky. Many of those who signed the declaration are owners of nearby rival pizzerias. Here's what one told the Times:
“If we get short on cheese or tomatoes, we go to him or he comes to us,” said Gino Campese, the owner of Scotti’s Pizza. “When it’s time to raise prices, we get together. There’s room for everybody. But not for Papa John’s.”Ouch! And aha, possible pizza price collusion - so that's why lots of pizza places manage to raise prices at the same time. Do the pizza owners also discuss raising prices with the MTA?
What kind of pizza places do you frequent - the mom & pop-type pizzerias or chains like Domino's and Papa John's? And is Famous Original Ray's a chain?
Photograph of a Coney Island mural by motormel on Flickr
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Do Johnny's Pizza and the future Papa John's have the same landlord? I wonder if there is a non-competition clause in their leases with respect to other businesses on the block.
How can anyone call pizza what Pappa Johns, Pizza Hut, Domino's or any other chain claims to be pizza. Really, who eats the crap from these places in this city? Your average hole in the wall slice joint is infinitely better and compared to these poseurs the pizza would taste like Dom DeMarco made it himself.
It also brings up another problem with chain places, the efforts to be uniform make bad bland food which is all sourced from the same place no matter if the establishment is in Brooklyn or Omaha. These soulless places really don't deserve to exist.
The real question is who the duck would goto a papa john's in the first place.
I'm in Oklahoma, I wouldn't step within 25 feet of one of those places that sell those elastic cardboard things I call "peetzah"
For my money, its a dive called NYC Pizza here in Tulsa, Ok. Why? cuz da guy's from Brooklyn - he knows pizza. - Keep your Papa John's.
And is Famous Original Ray's a chain?
Famous Original Ray's? or Original Famous Ray's?
hopefully the community will vote with their $ & not order from papa john's
My roommate eats Papa Johns like it's one of the main food groups. Literally, boxes and boxes of it every week. It's so gross and lame considering we live in Manhattan and there is a good gourmet pizza place a few blocks from us that sells good pizza for cheap. Papa Johns is just for lazy people with no taste.
How did the Bay Ridge business community allow for there to be two pizzeria's right next to each other be it Papa John's or not? I mean, come on folks, this doesn't happen anywhere! WTF?
"has been signed by more than 2,000 *fascists*". T, FTFY. If you don't like a store then don't patronize it. Simple. WTF is this petition crap.
The end product of gentrification - vanilla pizza moving in to serve the midwesterners in their bland, manufactured condos.
Johnny's has a great grandma pie. The guy who answers the phone knows where I live and what kind of soda I drink, just from the silky sound of my voice. Who can compete with that kind of service?
Everyone knows that Papa John's pizza is shitty and someone (not me) will probably break their window once a month until they go out of business.
The same thing happened on Astoria Boulevard: Papa John's opened right next to John's Pizzeria. It's obvious their business strategy is heartless.
Anybody who steps foot into a Starbucks has no right to bitch about this story.
“When it’s time to raise prices, we get together."
Am I alone in thinking this guy just admitted something very illegal in the pages of The New York Times? How widespread is price-fixing in the world of NYC pizza? Here's a free headline for the Post: "SLICE-FIXING".
since I don't have any local pizza joints within 8 blocks from me due to the crazy real estate boom, all I eat are Papa john's and dominos. pizza is pizza to me, no big deal, give me a slice and I'll eat it.
Guess I have no taste, hell, I'll eat roasted dog, too.
There is a Domino's pizza down the block from my apartment on the UWS. I never see anyone in there and I always wonder 1) how on earth does it stay open and 2) if there are people patronizing it, why on earth do they do it? Beats me.
Oh, and Dave, yes our Brooklyn pizza friend DID seem to let something very illegal slip out. Me, I couldn't care less, as long as a slice stays cheap, but hmmmm, price fixing should be kept in the closet and off the pages of the NY Times if you know what's good for you.
Can anyone suggest really good pizza in the Chelsea area? there's a lot of dreck around here...
Every weekend night, the phone rings off the hook at my local domino's. off da hook. There's very few pizzarias down here, sure we can call lombardi's but by the time it gets here, it's cold. 15 block delivery.
domino's is 3 blocks away.
Pizza delivery chains have always been fronts for money laundering/narcotics delivery. Ask anyone.
Having been born and raised in Bay Ridge/Sunset Park, I can attest that there IS a pizzeria on every block along Third and Fifth Aves. So there must be some gentleman's agreement re: slice prices.
I've never been to Johnnie's (or Papa John's) but I want to run down there this week and get a pie to go just to show my support for them. Too bad for the local schmo who's putting up the money to own the Papa John's franchise, but he's contributing to the destruction of New York's character.
Now about that collusion thing -- I noticed that too when I read the article this morning. Can we get Joe Hynes on the case? But even with collusion, I'd still rather eat at Johnnie's than at Papa John's.
It's funny to see people bemoaning the loss of neighborhood feeling and the horrors of deciding on a fair price for a slice in the same comment section. It's two sides of the same coin. Illegal, perhaps. Immoral, hardly. It's not like they're asking $4 for a cup of coffee.
Johnny's has great dinners as well as pizza. I'm glad I'm in their delivery zone.
The end product of gentrification - vanilla pizza moving in to serve the midwesterners in their bland, manufactured condos.
sorry, even the blandest of midwesterners don't eat this crap when better pizza is available. bitch and moan all you want about transplants, but it's the locals who (for some godforsaken reason) keep these chains alive.
I'd rather eat the 99cent slices on 7th ave and 37 st than papa johns.
"These soulless places don't deserve to exist"
says who? gothamist's resident TV watcher? oh, ok.
One new blog, has an interesting take on this issue from a Bay Ridge perspective.
Link above goes to: Right in Bay Ridge blog at http://rightinbayridge.blogspot.com/
I take it Nick S missed this about DiFara re-opening.
Calling these chain outfits soulless is something that anyone who has any sense can see. It is just like any other soulless fast food outfit with drones who could care less going through the same motions that the rest of the company's drones are going through all so you can get the same food in Bay Ridge or Bejing.
Now I suppose that Nick S would propose that tourists go eat at The Olive Garden for an authentic New York experience?
I love Olive Garden. their all you can eat salad and breadsticks are winners. alfredo sauce is alfredo sauce, kinda hard to F it up.
Now Applebees is not my cup of tea, I'd rather go to Outback Steakhouse. I find Outback is better than Lone Star steakhouse.
I've never been to P.F. Changs so I have no comment on that chain.
#4 How would somebody from Bklyn ever wind up in Tulsa operating a pizza parlor?
I'm guessing that it has something to do with the Witness Protection Program.
Holy shit! This is AWESOME! I just moved to sunset Park and it was all bodegas and spanish and mexican crap. there is no starbucks or Quiznos around me and I really wanted a Papa Johns. Now is the beginning of the Gentrification of Sunset. As soon as they open the park on the west side of Costco I'll be set for life as soon as the puerto ricans start moving out.
I don' t know why everybody is dissing Papa John's. Obviously you've never tried their pizza. Of course Domino's and Little caesars are disgusting but Papa J0hn's is REALLY GOOD!!! It's the starbucks of Pizza joints. Meaning that the pizza is good. For some reason the pizza that they serve in the restaurant tastes like shit compared to the pizza they deliver. must be cause no one orders their slices. Chipotle, Quiznos and Papa Johns are the trifecta of good but not great franchises. You can go in there and pay a little more than mcD's and Burger king but it tastes good.
I agree. Pizza Hut and Dominoes pizza are totally 100% disgusting. But Papa Johns is not bad. And frankly if nobody wants to eat their pizza, they'll go out of business so what's all the crying about. Just maybe the local pizzeria's pizza isn't all that great after all; just like those nasty overpriced 3rd world "supermarkets" had a choke hold on neighborhoods until decent supermarkets like Whole Foods, Fairway, and Trader Joe showed up.
Where's Travis Bickle when you need him?
toby.
come on man! of course i saw the difara post! im the first commenter on it.
i had a big post defending chains and shit, but im giving up. you have your pamphlet-speak and i have my brainwashed-by-corporations rhetoric.. so lets just agree to disagree i guess
we should all be ashamed of ourselves though, this is the 35th post in a thread about papa john's pizza... don't ANY of us have anything better to do?
In Astoria (on Astoria Blvd and Crescent) there is a "John's Pizzeria" and a Papa Johns. So I imagine they do it on purpose, maybe to try to steal business???? Via phone I imagine, because who would see the two side by side and go to Papa Johns?
"Can anyone suggest really good pizza in the Chelsea area? there's a lot of dreck around here..."
Try Maffei, great grandma slices there.
This what happens when Big Companies move on small businesses . Personally, I stop eating pizza [10] years ago . (Don't like the fact they wear gloves while preparing, & Handling the food )Posted by; "Still Not Amused"
Papa John's blows. Blows blows blows. I've had it, so I can tell you, it blows. Blows blows blows.
You know, when the Mob was running this town, we never had problems like this. I find myself thinking that a lot these days.
SUPPORT JOHNNY'S PIZZERIA
Has Johnny's Pizzeria ever supported your cause? Or do you simply love their pizza?
For almost 30 years, Johnny's Pizzeria has supported little leagues, local events and groups. Please show your support now when Johnny's Pizzeria needs it. A big box pizza chain is looking to open its doors right next door to Johnny's Pizeria. Please make phone calls, send emails and come out tonight!
SAY NO TO BIG BOX CHAINS
YES TO JOHNNY'S PIZZERIA
Rally and petition signing
Today August 7th
4:30pm to 7pm
5806 5th Avenue
Sunset Park, Brooklyn