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Early Addition
After hearing about the tragic rush-hour bridge collapse in Minneapolis that has claimed at least four lives, we wondered what the conditions of New York City's bridges were. Like the Interstate 35W bridge in Minneapolis, several of our city's largest bridges are undergoing what seems like constant construction. All the East River bridges are either undergoing repairs right now, have plans for the future, just finished construction, or all of the above.
Gothamist looked at the New York City Department of Transportation's 2006 Bridges and Tunnels Annual Condition Report for data on our local outlook. Their 2006 report classifies only three bridges as poor, 456 as fair, 210 as good, and 118 as very good. As shown in the chart above, the number of "poor" bridges has dropped in the past 10 years with repair projects that the DOT has ordered.
What bridges fall into the "poor" category? The 2006 report lists the E. 78th Street pedestrian crossing over the FDR, a section of the Brooklyn Bridge over the B.Q.E. and a bridge near Willow Lake and 76th Rd. in Flushing Meadows Corona Park. The report doesn't specifically say what is wrong with those bridges, but it does list the costs of replacement for each: $2,448,000 for the pedestrian bridge, $725,454,720 for the Brooklyn Bridge, and $2,723,040 for the Willow Lake bridge.
One bridge that isn't in the D.O.T. report is the Tappan Zee Bridge, which is run by the Thurway Authority. The Tappan Zee was built in 1955 and carries 135,000 vehicles a day, but was only built with a 50-year lifespan in mind. A 2001 Times article says the Thruway Authority estimated the rehabilitation cost of the bridge at $1.1 billion. The Authority is currently doing an environmental review of the other options.
The I-35W Bridge, which was built in 1967, carried an estimated 141,000 vehicles a day, a fraction of what the four East River bridges carry. Together, the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, and Queensboro bridges carried 498,213 vehicles a day in 2005. That's on top of any subway passengers the bridges carried. In addition to carrying more people, these four bridges are also much older than the I-35W Bridge - Brooklyn was opened in 1883, the Manhattan opened in 1909, the Williamsburg opened in 1903, and the Queensboro opened in 1909 as well. Each of these bridges are in various phases of rehabilitation projects, receiving seismic retrofitting and structural repairs and rehabilitation, and in some cases the reconstruction of roadways.
Other I-35W information:
- In addition to the four confirmed fatalities, at least 79 are injured and 20-30 people are still unaccounted for. TwinCities.com has video of the collapse.
- Minnesota Governor Pawlenty suspended recovery efforts and asked that all bridges with a similar design be inspected.
- The American Society of Civil Engineers "extends its deepest condolences to the victims, the injured, their families and all others." The ASCE's "2005 Report Card for America's Infrastructure" found that 27% of the nation's 590,750 bridges "rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete... However, it will cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies. Long-term underinvestment is compounded by the lack of a federal transportation program."
Photo of bridges by |Shrued on flickr
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"The I-35W Bridge, which was built in 1967, carried an estimated 141,000 vehicles a day, a fraction of what the four East River bridges carry. Together, the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, and Queensboro bridges carried 498,213 vehicles a day in 2005. That's on top of any subway passengers the bridges carried. In addition to carrying more people,"
Actually, if you bothered to do the math, you'd realize that the I-35W carries MORE cars than the average of those four bridges. 498k/4=125k, which is less than the 141k carried by the I-35W bridge. So, the I-35W bridge is at least as busy, if not busier, than the East River crossings.
Come on people, dividing by 4 isn't that hard!
yes, i understand that on average it carries more, but you understand that what the I-35W bridge carries is a fraction of the total of what the four east river bridges carry, right? because that's clearly what i wrote above.
I believe it's only a matter of time before something like that happens here. In fact I go through the Lincoln Tunnel everyday and I see cracks and leaks, especially when it rains. The George Washington bridge doesn't look all that great. The Brroklyn Bridge is beyond OLD. The Grand Central-BQE overpass area by Astoria in Qns is full of construction and really old infrastructure. I can only imagine what other areas must look like, especially ones that surround low income areas...
After the steam pipe explosion a few weeks ago, the Con Ed blackouts and electrocutions, plus the story about the woman falling through a street grate onto a live Con Ed power box, I don't trust any of the city's infrastructure. I can only hope that the people in charge have seen the "light" now that MN is in the news and they'e making sure they've done everything in their power to prevent this from happening here...
yes, i understand that on average it carries more, but you understand that what the I-35W bridge carries is a fraction of the total of what the four east river bridges carry, right? because that's clearly what i wrote above.
Well it's poor writing to compare one bridge to four bridges.
Aging infrastructure is very, very scary.
Yet one more reason to charge must more than we do for road and bridge usage. We all act like infrastructure is free once its built but thats FAR from the case.
$725 million? Is that all? Let's get on it already!
What does Bloomberg say about this?
here's video of the collapse from CNN so you don't have to register at twincities.com
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nerQhIyOwxM
Remember when the Williamsburg Bridge started falling apart?
Tragic. I used to fish for carp and other nasty fish under that bridge during my days at the U(niversity of Minnesota), and wander along the railroad tracks in the pictures. I hope no one I've long lost touch with perished there.
#3: Are you a structural bridge and tunnel engineer? *I see cracks and leaks, especially when it rains.*
yeah raining underwater is getting out of hand. leaks? do you the tile butts up with the water? you don't think there's several feet of concrete between the ceiling tiles and the water?
as for the bridges, why do you think there are traffic delays for the last 3 decades? they're not just repainting the bridges. they're constanly fixing them for structural inconsistencies and fatigue.
i do not think a collapse of the magnitude of the 1-35W will happen anytime soon in the new york area. however, prior to the repairs (current and past) of the GW and the Tappan Zee it was more likely. Thankfully the proper authories are fixing any damage, fatigue and age of both of those bridges.
Anyone have any info on the other bridges that don't cross the East River, like the Triboro, GWB, 145th Street Bridge, Third Avenue Bridge, Alexander Hamilton Bridge, Whitestone Bridge? Seems like that information would be just as important as the others though I guess it's not since most of those aren't going to white neighborhoods.
There's a vehicle weight limit of 3 tons for the Brooklyn Bridge.
Guess what?
Many motor vehicles (mostly SUVs) that cross the Brooklyn Bridge every day exceed that weight limit. This limit exists for a reason. When overweight vehicles use the bridge, they are accelating the structural fatigue and need for repairs. Wasting money and endangering others. The police should do something about this.
The following following vehicles exceed the Brooklyn Bridge weight limit:
Hummer H1
Hummer H2
GMC Yukon
Ford Expedition/Excursion
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe
Cadillac Escalade
BMW X5
Range Rover
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Sequoia
Lincoln Navigator
Mercedes M Class
Porsche Cayenne S
Dodge Ram 1500 pickup (with optional Hemi)
diabolix - if you read the report, you'll see that there are only 3 bridges (the one i listed) that the D.O.T. considers "poor". a quick look at the third avenue bridge in one D.O.T. report shows that it underwent a rehab in recent years, so it's no longer "poor" - it's actually rated very good by the D.O.T.
the 145th st. bridge is listed as "fair" by the D.O.T. and they say that the project is supposed to be finished in september. that's if they're still on schedule.
and the triborough, gwb, and whitestone aren't operated by the D.O.T., which is probably why they aren't in the report.
Do the bridges have a total bridge weight limit like an elevator has?
"However, it will cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years to eliminate all bridge deficiencies"
we spend 4.5 billion per month in iraq .. wtf!
1. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002780385_spending03.html
Re: Diabolix.... Doubt this is a race issue. The GWB, third avenue, etc are used daily by all of the SUV suburban single occupancy guzzling vehicles. NON_ISSUE.
Re: #14: the weight limit (although I agree with banning/feeing "guzzlers") is not due to concern for the structure, but the roadbed.
As for the Brooklyn Bridge, the Roeblings (father, wife & son) ran into a load of shyte for insisting on over-engineering the structure. Great history, great stories.
Different from the Minn. collapse, we live in a saline environment, which is FAR more corrosive than Minn. Stuff is constantly ongoing to stay ahead. So much fell behind during the fiscal crisis of the Beame/Koch era.
And, yeah, lets cut the "War on Terror" pork crap and spend some of our hard-earned bucks not siphoned from us by sucky landlords on keeping this city running, and when you have a construction delay, DEAL WITH IT!
Dadoc
Who is going to pay for repairing and rebuilding all of this infrastructure?
The right wing kooks have brainwashed all of the Homer Simpsons of this country that any and all government spending is "wrong" (except for the military, of course) and all tax increases are unjustified.
By the way, did anyone notice how the NY Post downplayed this issue today?
Apparently "Obama the nut-case and kook" is the more important issue facing this great nation.
Not to mention Al Sharpton.
Happy motoring!
The following following vehicles exceed the Brooklyn Bridge weight limit:
Hummer H1
Hummer H2
GMC Yukon
Ford Expedition/Excursion
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe
Cadillac Escalade
BMW X5
Range Rover
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Sequoia
Lincoln Navigator
Mercedes M Class
Porsche Cayenne S
Dodge Ram 1500 pickup (with optional Hemi)
YOU MUST BE A MORON! The weight you are quoting is the GVWR! That's the maximum allowable weight of the vehicle meaning it is fully loaded with gas, passengers and cargo. The curb weight of Porsche Cayenne S is 4950 lbs. Get your math straight before you start posting BS!
everything is falling apart.
it would be nice if bloomberg would just cut a check...
what the hell we can afford a million a minute into a bomb crater in Iraq but our own "Burg" is falling to pieces and we wring our hands and say oh can we affoed it?
MADNESS
To guest #22,
YEAH, I MUST BE A MORON! (I'm guest #14)
That's right, rather than simply explain what you think I've gotten wrong, resort to name-calling.
Then again (from the Wikipedia entry for GVWR): "Vehicles over 6,000 pounds are restricted from many city roadways (though there is some dispute about whether this restriction is for actual curb weight or GVWR)"
So, it's unresolved as to whether curb weight or GVWR is restricted. Either way, 6000 pounds is 6000 pounds, whether you arrive at that weight by unloaded or after loading the vehicle down, it still exceeds the limit.
In any case, both Hummers have a curb weight exceeding 6000 lbs. and many of the other vehicles come close enough that once you add the driver and a full tank of gas, you're over the limit.
edEx,
Suck my big toe. I never said I was a a "structural bridge and tunnel engineer", I'm only calling out what I SEE.
The people on Lex Ave didn't expect a steam pipe to explode under them. The woman who fell through the street grate didn't expect it to fall out from under her. The people on the MN bridge didn't expect it to fall out from under them. They had faith in the powers that be that they could go from to point A to point B without having to worry about something like that.
Now that these things have happened, a lot of people's eyes have opened-- including my own.
I'm not trying to incite a riot or panic, I'm simply pointing out what I see.
You can keep walking around with your eyes closed and not questioning anything... but that's not what I'm gonna do.
What people aren't considering here is that even though the I-35W bridge carried a fraction of the traffic that the East River bridges carry (why is that so hard to believe?), it was still not designed to carry even the capacity it was carrying! Not only is the infrastructure aging, it is having difficulty keeping up with the ever-increasing demands of auto traffic.
Not only is the nation going to have to spend gobs of money maintaining the aging infrastructure, but we're going to have to either retrofit or rebuild the bridges to handle the vast amount of traffic that no one could have foreseen.
I'm surprised no one mentioned the big dig tunnel failure. Even if we repair this stuff there's no guarantee there's going to be any quality to any of it. Cynical, yes, but true.
How about this... Stop LI,NJ,Rockland Co.,Westchester Co.,CT,Queens,Brooklyn,Bronx,and Staten Island from driving into Manhattan. Problem solved. Use public transportation like the rest of us.
Also, when did we all become engineers? It's sad to say that the old bridges are lasting longer than the new bridges. The didn't even have computers back then.
Perhaps a post from a structural engineer might help... I've inspected quite a few bridges in the last 9 years, including large ones such as the Triboro and the GWB. While it is true almost every bridge has deficiencies, NO deficiency of any urgency is left to rust away due to budget problems. When problems are found (bridges are by law inspected every 2 years, more frequently if they are found to be in poor condition), they are dealt with according to the severity of the problem. ie, cracks in floorbeams are fixed immediately, section loss in cross bracing might wait several years for a planned maintenance cycle. It is a very systematic program and in almost every case very effective.
The whole point is, bridges in general are very safe. The last major collapse due to maintenance concerns was over 20 years ago (Schoharie Creek, due to scour undermining the bridge piers). Should there be any collapses, NO. Planes shouldn't fall out of the sky either, but they do. Only time and a thorough investigation will tell what caused this latest collapse. Rest assured that knowledge will be incorporated into new procedures which will help prevent further accidents. A fortunate side effect of an unfortunate incident.
As to who pays for all of this, you do. ALL NYC DoT bridges are maintained with money from the general fund. The East river bridges in particular are ridiculously expensive to maintain: ( http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/pdf/bridgerpt06_3.pdf )
A lot of this has to do with the age of the structures and the fact that the city deferred much of the routine maintenance during the fiscal crisis of the 70's. More recently the city has done a very good job up upgrading and maintaining it's signature structures. No one should worry about a collapse like the one in Minnesota happening here, mainly because the major bridges were all built with quite a bit higher factor of safety and much more redundancy (key).
If you want more money for infrastructure, support congestion pricing! Those that use it should pay for it. Check out the MTA TBTA bridges, they are all in very good condition due to having a dedicated funding stream from tolls.
In response to post 13, Any structure crossing between NJ and NY is owned by the Port Authority, all tolled crossings within NYC are operated by the Triboro Bridge and Tunnel Authority under the auspices of the MTA.
When a bridge is designed, it is NOT designed for the live load that exists at the moment of design. There are schedules that are used based on what the live load is estimated to be in twenty years. On top of all this, us engineers use a factor of safety. I personally don't think the weight has anything to do with this disaster as two lanes were closed. Reports from the people involved, state that traffic was slow, stop and go!!! Has anyone ever thought of what happens if the majority of those vehicles stop at the same time!! The lateral force would be something that engineers DON'T design for and for sure would never expect.
31, lateral load is prescribed in AASHTO as braking force.
The 1961 AASHTO(Minnesota bridge design standard) used 5% 0f live load for braking force calculation. Today they use 25% of live load for braking force. Big difference to consider. I'm not saying this is what caused this disaster but I think it sure deserves some consideration.
The tappan Zee is the one that's going to go. Either that or the Gowanus viaduct.
The tappan Zee is downright scary.