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Last night in the Ridgewood section of Queens, a man turned the tables against a pair of men that were allegedly robbing him outside his home at 60-34 Putnam Avenue. Police officials told WABC that the 42 year-old shooter was approached by the two men shortly before 10:30 last night. When they attempted to rob him, he shot them multiple times.
One of the alleged robbers, 31, was shot multiple times and pronounced dead at Elmhurst Hospital. The other man, 32, was shot in the arm and back and is in stable condition. The shooter was being questioned for possession of four guns in his home. Police are determining the legality of the guns - a .22, a .25, a .357, and a .380 - to determine whether they will file charges.
Update: It looks like the story has changed significantly since this morning. 1010 WINS is reporting that the shooter, who originally said he was being robbed, was arrested by the police. They are charging 42 year-old Lilzam Kupih with murder, attempted murder, and criminal posession of a weapon. While Kupih told reporters he was protecting his wife and three children, it's reported that he later told authorities that the victims were trying to extort money from him.
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Good for him! Although I really hope for his sake the guns were legal.
did anyone else think bernie goetz when they first heard about this story? i suppose it's too early to tell.
I always love when goons like these two get a nasty surprise
I would hope that unless you do a Dirty harry or Bernie Goetz quip -- "You don't look too bad; here's another" -- that a DA would have the common sense not to throw the book at someone for using an unlicensed gun in self defense. A fine should be enough.
I had a grammar school teacher who was a former cop. He told us one time (for what reason, I have no idea) that if someone robs you in your doorway and you shoot him and he falls outside the doorway, drag him back inside your property. It's easier to defend yourself if they were trespassing on your property in addition to the robbery.
I'm sure he was joking.....
Stories like this warm the cockles of my heart. If only the 2nd mugger was taking a dirt nap as well.
Let's hope the mugger doesn't sue the shooter.
I thought you can't *legally* own handguns in NY? Or at least, law abiding citizens can't own guns, criminals on the other hand...
I've heard that same story my whole like, Rocknrope. It sounds logical. I wonder how true it is.
#7, you CAN legally own handguns in NYC If you have a permit.
#7, one can legally own a gun in NYC if one has a permit.
Why is it that an ordinary citizen successfully thwarting muggers or robbers has to be associated with Bernie Goetz?
It used to be commonplace that citizens were not only capable of, but legally permitted to defend themselves.
Unfortunately, pro-police anti-self protection programming has really done a number on many people in NYC.
That the first issue in everyone's mind is whether someone was even allowed to own the gun they used to defend themselves or whether the police will cite the citizen is sickening.
*Why is it that an ordinary citizen successfully thwarting muggers or robbers has to be associated with Bernie Goetz?*
The same reason traitors are associated with Benedict Arnold.
Pro-police = anti-self protection or anti-vigilante? Where do you draw the line #11?
Leave the guy alone, the guns in his home didn't hurt nobody.
No mention of the alleged assailants even being armed?!
Someone "approaching" and "attempting to rob" you is never enough reason to open fire and KILL a person in the street.
The "ordinary citizen" may be a hero or (just as likely) he could be an unstable, paranoid, trigger-happy individual with a gun in his pocket.
Gun violence is bad news, no matter who is firing or who's got a permit.
Good, less scum on the streets of NY.
Isn't Ridgewood a very safe area? the DA could turn the tables on the guy as to why would he need a guy in a safe neighborhood.
11: Because he shot 4 black dudes on a train 20 years ago and that gives a hard on to the types that throw his name around.
More things change, the more they stay the same.
Yes, it's true that it's easier under NY law to use deadly force to defend yourself in your own home. If you're outside your home, NY law requires that you make an attempt to retreat, if it is safe to do so, before using deadly force. The "rule of retreat" does not apply when one is in one's own home. Therefore, if you drag the body back into your apartment, you can claim you were defending yourself in your own home.
However, if you are in the hallway of your apartment building, you ARE under a duty to retreat. It is solely within the walls of your apartment that the duty doesn't apply.
Is Bernie Goetz married? if not, how bout the guys who gets a hard on from him marry him?
Someone attempting to rob you is ABSOLUTELY enough reason to open fire and kill a person in the street. If only every mugger and criminal had the same fate.
Rocknrope and MT,
There is some legal logic to this. The law is almost universal that deadly force is acceptable against a home invader. "A man (or woman) is the king (queen) of his (her) castle," is the classic line w/r/t this.
That said, if you pop someone outside your house, you're taking a risk of tampering with evidence by dragging them inside. Though I've heard stories that cops (especially) and DAs (less so) will not look that hard into self-defense shootings. When someone dies, though, it's certainly going to get greater scrutiny.
But what an odd grammar school lesson...
Just wait until this guy gets slapped with a wrongful death civil suit.
On the topic of defending yourself in your home, I think it is Louisiana where your entire property is fair game. I recall a case where some jackass shot and killed a Japanese exchange student in his driveway on Halloween. Either he was never charged or he was acquitted. I don't exactly remember.
ah so, the castle doctrine.
#21: So the next time someone flashes a screwdriver and hits me up for some cash on the street corner I should just start firing away and shoot to kill? Let's hope you're not raising any children in this city.
The moral of this story is: Make sure to kill them both, then you can say you wrestled the gun away from one of them.
#7, you CAN legally own handguns in NYC If you have a permit.
Unless you are an ex-cop, it is nigh impossible to get a carry permit in NYC. Even residence permits are difficult.
That's just for people who obey they law though. As long as you're a criminal, you can get them any way you want.
I thought of Bernie Goetz, too.
My second thought was, "How much you want to bet that those guns came from Virginia?"
yah know, if every person who did business with the mob did this, we'd all be safer.
I'd always wondered why in hollywood they make the patsies so stupid. You're in cahoots with bad people get a GUN, ya moron.
#19 the retreat rule has several exceptions, one of which is obvious (cops). There is an exception, no retreat necessary, where you are the victim of certain crimes, burglary, arson, rape, kidnapping and robbery. Here, it was a robbery attempt, so there's no retreat issue; it's just a matter of weapons possession and maybe unjustified self-defense, which may be voluntary manslaughter (I don't remember what happens there).
geez, was it really worth it to this sh*thead to KILL someone simply to protect his stupid wallet and maybe a metro card plus credit card which he could have cancelled the minute he got home. sheesh!
i remember bernie goetz and always thought (and still believe) he was a total a$$hole. one graffiti (if only i had photographed it at the time!!!!) i saw shortly after the shooting sums it all up and makes clear why guns should be as difficult as possible to purchase:
"bernie goetz: archie bunker with a gun"
'Nuff said!
sounds like an inside job if the muggers tried to extort money from him. He owns a contracting business in Flushing and the muggers knew where he lived. they just didn't expect him to be carrying.
very smart, never tell anyone you have a gun.
Part of me is pleased when muggers get the tables turned on them. In a way it serves them right for assaulting someone. But there isn't enough information to determine if deadly force was necessary. Taking a life - even of a mugger - isn't something to take lightly.
I would have preferred he pistol-whipped the shit out of the guys, but I guess we'll see what happens. I hope Gothamist follows up on this story.
wait. So if you legally get a gun and permit and if someone just says "give me your money!" you are legally allowed to shoot and kill them without threat of incarceration? Sign me up. I get threats from black people all the time just walking down the street, Usually it's just black people trying to intimidate me but sometimes they do try to rob me. If this is the case I'm gonna shoot the shit out of them.
#25: Yes, absolutely. When a mugger "flashes" a screwdriver in an attempt to rob and threaten bodily harm, the victim has a clear moral right to defend herself using deadly force.
And I am planning to raise children in this city, because I love it and believe it is worth defending from criminal scum.
For all the clueless hipsters on this site... When you get on your "L" train going into Manhattan, and you see all the seats taken by people, odds are those seats are filled up with people from Ridgewood (and Glendale).
I live about a block away from the shooting incident. I actually walked through the yellow tape to get to Fresh Pond Rd last night. The one thing I find strange is that the shooting happened in the middle of the street. This was about 50 ft from the victims house. Home invasion or not this seems very suspicious. This is a very quiet neighborhood.
If he really was getting mugged, then good on him for shooting them both!
My in-laws live in Ridgewood and it is a pretty safe neighborhood. So it is odd that someone would be carrying a gun. Being that he owns five guns, he's probably got a screw loose.
#13 asked:
"Pro-police = anti-self protection or anti-vigilante? Where do you draw the line #11?"
The line is that if someone attempts to harm you or your family, you should be legally permitted to use whatever force is necessary to deter that threat.
The seemingly prevalent mindset of letting the police handle everything leads to increased crime and people getting hurt, killed, and robbed all the time.
Does anybody really believe that the police will able to save them in a timely manner, if at all, when these types of things occur? Please.
Why the hell should it be against the law to defend yourself and your property? Why should owning a gun to protect your home be illegal? The unjustified shooting of people is what should be illegal (and it already is).
I have actually tried to obtain a home permit for a gun and was lead around in circles miserably for months before they "lost" the application which took almost a month to complete fully. I have never been arrested and have demonstrated in every way that I am a responsible and legal-minded citizen.
Here's another fun fact about the arcane gun laws in NYC: You can (theoretically) obtain either home permit OR a range permit. Not both. So you can either have a gun in your home for self-protection but no means to practice in its safe use. Or you can practice constantly at the range and not have a gun in your home where you might actually need it.
It's true.
It's also retarded (and what I've come to expect of NYC and NYS bureaucrats).
#11
guns are dumb
owning a gun is dumber
shooting a gun is dumbest
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Well being "safe" neighborhood i have to say when i was leaving in ridgewood my roommate got jumped by 5 people in the middle of the street. Nobody asked any question, they just hit him and tried to take down, later on we found out those guys used to drop person to the flor, keep hitting him with legs until the victim is unconscious and then take his stuff. My friend was lucky that he had some self defense training (wouldn't be enough for a long period of time against 5 people still) and that undercover police arrived 3 minutes later.
If they would talk to him he would probably have given them the wallet, but in case of my roommate there was no request, just assault...
He is a punk. Just ask around the neighborhood. His kids are up to no good either. 1 guy was shot half a block away and the other around the block. It ceased being a robbery when they were off and running. That is if robbery was even the motive. All three of them are shady characters.
That's aside from the point #[43] . He was defending himself ! If it were me they would be dead ! Yes I said it Dead !!! In this City you the "Haves, & Have not's", Just because You have something that someone else doesn't is no excuse to try taking it from them ! Posted by; "Still Not Amused"
It's not that difficult to get a permit for a shotgun or rifle in NYC. Pistols are much harder.