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The developer who plans to transform Brooklyn waterfront where the Domino Sugar factory stands unveiled the billion-dollar plans yesterday. According to the NY Sun, there will be 2,200 housing units, 120,000 square feet of retail space, and 100,000 square feet of community space. Thirty percent of the housing will be affordable: 530 will be rentals (100 units for families making $21,000; 330 for families making up to $40,000; "100 for seniors who make up to 50% of the median income for the area") while 130 units will be for sale to "families making up to $90,000 annually."
Community Preservation Corporation Resources (a pointed company name if there ever was one) president Michael Lappin said this would be "the first time in several generations that this part of the waterfront will be open to the public," what with water taxi access and a 40-foot-wide waterfront esplanade between South Fifth and Grand Ferry Park.
The Processing House will remain, but CPC Resources did not mention any other buildings that would be preserved. Efforts are under way to save the Domino Sugar sign, but the sign's building will likely be demolished. Though many groups would like more buildings preserved and more affordable housing, CPC Resources seems to have won over many; the advocacy group El Puente's Luis Acosta told AM New York, "They've really gone to every single community group and sat down. They've been an exception to the rule of developers who take a top-down approach and essentially tell the community what's going to happen after it's been decided."
Curbed has photographs from the press conference.
Photograph by Pabo76 on Flickr
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I grew up in NYC and my earliest memories involve playing in the parks alongside the East River and seeing that large Domino sign... sigh...those were happy times.
I understand the desire to preserve historic buildings and such, but that factory is an eyesore and I'll be pleased to see it cleaned up and turned into something useful. Too often these stories talk about people coming together to "defend their historic neighborhood" when the neighborhood is mostly made up of abandoned, crumbling factories that look like something out of a Mad Max movie.
That said, I do like the efforts of many groups in Brooklyn/Queens to keep their skylines lower, their neighborhoods more neighborhood-y, and their rents somewhere in a zone that even approaches "vaguely reasonable."
The artificial distortion of the rental market by Stalinist economic central planning (rent control) is what brings us such outrageous rent prices on the non-rent controlled property. Hey Commies/democrats/liberals/hippies, free market forces work quite well when left alone.
#3 has it right. A family living on 21k in NYC? Guess I'll quit my job and make some more kids to get me some of that housing. WTF?
#3 Typical capitalist rhetoric. Cite examples of free market forces working for middle and lower income people.
#3 & #5 are correct
why would anyone try to move up in the world if they get subsidized rent living on a waterfront property.
and i guess f*ck you if u make $40,001???
#3/#4 are correct
subsidized rent schemes are bullshit
what if u make $40,001 ??
there is no incentive to do better if handouts (cheap waterfront apt's) are given if you stay poor?
Speaking of things along the East River from our childhoods, does anyone remember that random fountain that used to shoot a jet of water straight up in the air just off the southern tip of Roosevelt Island? I seem to remember it was some kind of folly donated to the city by someone when they died. Does anyone know what happened to it?
ignore post #6 i typo'd
#3 Typical capitalist rhetoric. Cite examples of free market forces working for middle and lower income people.
Typical lousy debate tactic. Insult your opponent but don't make a point yourself.
Nick Naylor
#5, I point to EVERY OTHER CITY AND TOWN IN THE NATION, where there is no rent control and people have been getting along fine for 200+ years.
#5, let's pretend you own a building. You have 100 units that would bring $2000 a month in an open market, that's $200,000.00 per month. Now the city comes along and tells you that you have to rent 20 of those units at $500.00 per month, that means your other 80 units go up to $2375.00. Setting aside all the moral and ethical reasons for which the govt. forcing anything on the people is wrong. Why should 80 of your tennants pay the rent for 20 others? It's the same building so the median income for the neighborhood is the same. Why should some people be punished for success? Why should some people be rewarded for failure? rent control leads to ghettoization when it is more profitable to leave a building vacant as a tax writeoff than it is to rent it out. Please, I urge all of you who believe that "affordable housing" can be mandated by govt. to take a class in economics, read some Adam Smith, read some history (Marx has been demonstrably wrong on every single count).
Obviously #11 you don't get out much. Or you don't live in the USA.
#13, do you have ANY example of a planned econonmy working? That is, doing something other than enriching the planners at the expense of the people (like Cuba, N. Korea, China, USSR...et al).
someone who is pro-rent regulation tell me what becomes of the family making $40,001
2,200 more units...
enjoy that L train, suckers.
ah, gothamist...
good to see the same old douches spouting the same baseless anonymous machiavellian nonsense under various screen names
more than the old factories that did no harm, i'm more concerned about the abandoned crumbling infrastructure when 2200 entitled assholes are dropped into my neighborhood.
i looked up from my denial a few weeks ago and wondered when my neighborhood had became Soho.
The Nothing continues to eat it all up...
for this purpose:
1. what age is considered a 'senior'?
2. what is the median income?
3. what screening process will they put in place to rent only to clean and shiny 'poor people'?
Who the fug does capitalism enrich besides the rich? Give me a break. This country is going down the tubes thanks to greedy capitalist pigs who want nothing more than a free ride because it's the American way. Look at the subprime housing crisis. Look at Enron, etc. Look at the high cost of health care. Look at the war which spends over a billion dollars a day to fight for oil and corporate profits!
First of all, all these numbers that are put out about affordable housing are bullshit. The reality will be when the units are actually ready to be rented and we'll see then just what affordable is!
And yes, I'd like to see some low income familes living on waterfront property. The rich and spoiled have been taking up too much space. Generation ME is ruining this city. The poor need to be pushed to the outer limits of the outer boroughs so that they are not seen. The reality is not everyone has a trust fund.. Not everyone is a banker a lawer or a financial analyst. And these people need to wake up to the fact that real people, good people who are just as good as them deserve something nice once in a while!
ok #18
a poor family should be practically given a waterfront apt, huh?
i make more than 40K
but far less than 6 figures
i am not a "banker a lawer or a financial analyst"
i will not qualify for these "affordable" units
i will not be able to afford the market rate units.
what do you suggest happens to me, incidentally the largest demographic in NYC?
#11 - that's 'cuz no one wants to live in those other shitholes, so there is not enough demand to raise rents to unaffordable levels!
rent does NOT work as most everyday commodities do especially in places like NY. ideally, with increased demand, production grows and prices drop per unit produced. with stable or lower prices demand usually increases or remains stable until a new improved product comes out. however, with the intentionally deflated availability of housing, jacking up rents is an all to easy option for landlords.
Free market forces when left to there own devices do tend to work in many places, but the NYC real estate market isn't one of them. The main reason being that NYC has a disproportionately large number of extremely wealthy people, and a disproportionately small supply of available housing. The vacancy rates here hover around 1%. Without some form of rent subsidized or rent controlled housing, where are the middle and lower class folks supposed to live? I'll break it down a little more simply for all you uber capitalists out there. The person who makes your $6 latte, drives your taxi, rings up your purchases at Duane Reade, puts your house out when it's on fire, patrols the streets to keep you safe, teaches your kids (actually your kids probably go to private school) etc., where are they supposed to live? Should people who choose to live a middle or lower class existence be forced out of the city altogether? You probably think so. Either deal with subsidized housing and rent control (which is a tiny portion of all the available real estate in the city anyway) or start learning to work that Pinafarina espresso machine you got for you wedding.
@17 - I use my last name as part of my username ... not particularly anonymous, that.
Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of rent-control, myself. I think in the long run it's a system that does more harm than good and I'd rather see other programs created that focus more on getting people out of their desperate situations, rather than simply allowing them to continue surviving at their current level of poverty.
That said, though, painting them all as entitled assholes or welfare mothers or whatever is pretty disingenuous.
I understand your concerns about the infrastructure ... the L train's already a bitch and only getting worse, for example. But the city's expecting continued growth well into the future; those people have to go somewhere. The correct course of action is to improve the infrastructure, not to attempt to preserve the status quo by enacting a zero-growth policy that favors derelict buildings over new housing.
still waiting . . .
what is to become of the family making $40,001 ??
if this board is indicative of anything? they will be ignored
at least MTA employees wont be allowed to live here..they make much more than the $40 cutoff for sitting on their ass all day
Reality Czech, please read up on some economic theory before you open your pie-hole. Uninformed homeowners making stupid choices to purchase home equity loans is not the "fault" of capitalism (there is also a world of difference between capitalism and a free-market economy.) Enron, that was fraud, theft, and malfeasance not capitalism (are you saying that Gazprom and Lukoil are free of corruption because they are run by the state?). Also "the war" spends nothing, your Congress controls ALL national spending and could stop this war tomorrow if they wanted to. It was Congress that relinquished it's authority to make war to the executive, it's Congress that continues to spend your tax money on this foolhardy adventure. Yes it was W's idea to go get that man that shot at his daddy, but it was Congress that allowed it to happen and agreed to pay for it.
this board gives me the creeps. enjoy your rage and xenophobia. peace
Xenophobia?????? Has there been any immigrant bashing in this thread? What are talking about Miguel?
The person who makes your $6 latte, drives your taxi, rings up your purchases at Duane Reade, puts your house out when it's on fire, patrols the streets to keep you safe, teaches your kids (actually your kids probably go to private school) etc., where are they supposed to live?
First we need to stop lumping the low wage Duane Reade clerk in with the cops. The cops are doing just fine.
It's also time to make some adjustments to government policies that were designed in the post-WW II era. We're living in the age of globalization and certain "world cities" have become far more desirable places to live - New York, London, San Francisco, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc. And on top people wanting to live here, people are buying property as an investment, some without even stepping foot in New York. The Times has run multiple articles about the Irish buying condos in Manhattan to rent out. Maybe it's time to step up the property tax on absentee landlords. I believe the state of Florida does this.
If you want a return to a more fair era it is time to start considering some curbs on immigration. In the last 50 years the population of the US has roughly doubled but rural areas of this country have essentially hollowed out. Everyone wants to live near the coasts, including the immigrants. Every talking head says the immgrants do the jobs Americans won't do. First, that is really not true. The only job nationwide in which immigrants make up more than 50% of the workforce is farm jobs. Nobody asks if we really need these other jobs. Do we need a Duane Reade every 50 feet in New York? Do we need a 100 new restaurant openings a week? I assume we would have fewer restaurants if there were fewer illegals washing dishes and delivering food.
It should come as no suprise that more Americans leave NYC every year than arrive. The population growth is from immigration. Plenty of my friends with good jobs came to the realization that you can do the same jobs elsewhere that you can do here. They need lawyers in Chicago. JP Morgan does investment banking in Dallas. Etc. The salaries are the same and the cost of living is lower. And thanks to globaization they have the same crap in Dallas that they have here.
With a name like Community Preservation Corporation Resources, you can expect they do the opposite.
The starting salary for an NYPD officer is $34,970, which puts them below the $40,000 cap by a good stretch. Sure they make a bit more than a barista, but still where should a copy making $34,970 live? There aren't that many choices for anyone making that much.
There are strong arguments against rent controls but the fact that there are cutoff lines isn't one of them.
"but still where should a copy (sic) making $34,970 live?" Based on the past performance of the NYPD (mob hit-men, rapist murderers running check-cashing scams, incompetent boobs that can't shoot straight) I would say AS FAR AWAY FROM NYC AS WE CAN SEND THEM!
maybe housing subsidies, etc should be based on actual profession...i have no problem helping out a cop or teacher making $34,970....but not secretary or elevator operator or frelance t-shirt designer
How does the guy whose post was essentially "I don't want those poor people moving into my neighborhood?" get to accuse anyone else of xenophobia?
JMH,
the harsh cutoff line is exactly why such policies are a joke.
The policy is joke because of a simple fact of economics that for some reason people fail to grasp. Nothing will ever be worth anything other than what someone is willing to pay you for it. All the ill-kempt lefties of the world and the "Heroes of the People" at Gosplan can not change that immutable fact. Any attempt to set prices at anything other than what the market will bear creates more problems than you think you are fixing.
Who the fug does capitalism benefit besides the rich? Try the motivated. Anyone has the opportunity to make anything of themselves in this town if they just get up off their lazy ass and do it. Anyone who claims they are being held down isn't pushing hard enough. 'nuff said!
Oh that's right, it's all about how much money a person can make. That is the problem not the solution. This country cares more about greed and profit than it does about people. If this is the richest country in teh world, than why are there so many poor people and people without health care? Because those people aren't motivated? Give me a break.
First off curb immigration. Yeah, anyone CAN make anything of themselves in NYC including illegal immigrants, ah but that's OK because that means lower costs and more profit. The American Dream has put you to sleep.
Person A - $21,000 salary
Person B - $52,00 salary
Person C - $180,000 salary
Acording to the brilliant vision of NYC housing laws, person's A & C are entitled to enjoy living in prime locations.
Person B can go f*ck him/herself
Wonder why anyone makes 20K has no incentive to better themselves?
The starting salary for an NYPD officer is $34,970, which puts them below the $40,000 cap by a good stretch. Sure they make a bit more than a barista, but still where should a copy making $34,970 live? There aren't that many choices for anyone making that much
Why do the idiots harp on the starting salary of the cops? It's the end salary that sets your pension. And nobody ever got rich in any profession based on their starting salart. It's your peak earning years that matter - aka your late 30s to retirement. Do you people know how much a detective makes? Most of them clear $100,000 with overtime. Some of them are coming dangerously close to John Kerry's wealthiest 2% line. They make fun of the Assistant District Attorneys making $50,000 with no overtime.
If they start giving subsidized apartments to cops and don't kick them out by the time the cop is making $75,000 then we have truly hit rock bottom.
Does anyone else find it funny that people post anonymously, then the only ones who back up their comments are other guest... if they are other guests? Hmmm... the power of one individual with a lot of time and a narrow mind.
#2/#22 pretty much has it right, BTW.
#19 -- I totally hear you. I know so many people in that unfortunate middle -- not rich enough to afford to live here yet not poor enough to qualify for government services.
I'm not saying people have a right to live here, but that many jobs in media, entertainment, and publishing only exist here, yet don't pay enough for workers to stay.
I'm not sure what the solution to any of this.
JMH your analogies are stupid...rent control laws = stat. rape laws? that's a pathetic triangulation attempt
and you need to think outside the box.
arbitrary, strict income "lines in the sand" is just a lazy, lazy way of attempting to "solve" the problem.
under your thinking, Alex Rodriguez's mother should still qualify for subsidized housing, since she "earns" practically nothing.
brilliant
you probably work for the govt
No, my point was not that rent control laws are equivalent to statutory rape laws. My point was that a lot of different laws have cutoffs that are arbitrary and sometimes harsh, but that doesn't mean the cutoffs should be eliminated.
Ooh, I need to "think outside the box." Thanks for using a buzzword that makes no sense in this context. That was helpful.
Alex Rodriguez' mother is an interesting hypothetical question, of course, but:
A) If she receives money and/or gifts (e.g. a house, a car) from her son, those are declared income.
B) It's irrelevant to what we're talking about. If she "earns" very little then she qualifies regardless of whether there are hard cutoffs like a line at $40,000.
No, I don't work for the government.
So what's your solution, then? You obviously know a whole lot more than everybody else, so why don't you enlighten us?
I'm all for affordable housing from developers. But when they cut their profits like this to develop a site none of you knuckleheads can, it would be nice if a few tree-hugger nimbots would just say "hey, thanks".
#42: Yeah, and to become a detective you have to start at a salary of $34,970. Sure, those cops can just tell their landlords, 'Don't worry pal, in 5 or 10 years I'll be making $75 grand, so I'll get you back then'. That argument makes no sense , you still need to live somewhere for all those years until you're a detective and 'rolling' around in your piles of money like Scrooge McDuck.
%100 free market housing
thats my solution
OMG, Tim N and his guest/anonymous rant YET again!?!
How many times do people have to tell you: If you don't like GUESTS posts, filter them out!
Otherwise deal with it and stop your whining!
Oh please, cops make enough, the get a uniform allowance, they make TONS overtime, and they work for 20 years and get half their pension for life so I don't want to hear a bunch of cops complaining about their pay. Furthermore, they hardly do anything most of the time while they are working.
Wow, that sounds cushy, Reality Czech, and yet I don't see you signing up for it.
too old JMH, plus I like to smoke weed.
Making above $60,000 means abolutely nothing if you have a shitload of college loans to pay off just so you could some day make $60,000 or more. You need to make a lot of money to live in a decent neighborhood in this city. 2200 units of affordable housing is a drop in the bucket.
Uninformed homeowners making stupid choices to purchase home equity loans is not the "fault" of capitalism (there is also a world of difference between capitalism and a free-market economy.)
The subprime crisis is a result of irresponsible lending. Maybe the borrowers were unwise, but it's the lenders who package up these weak grade loans and pass them off as investment grade securities.
That's right. Irresponsible consumer lenders were being just as speculative as the borrowers. Who loses? The institutional investors (pension funds, insurance funds, etc) that are left holding the bag when the loans go belly up...
More on topic, I used to thoroughly hate development and used to be a total preservationist. But then one day I realized that the places I had come to love had to be developed one day in the past, and on that day it was likely much to the chagrin of those around it who hate change. Was anyone annoyed when a sugar factory was constructed, probably...
Finally, on the argument of rent control. San Francisco has rent control and it really doesn't seem to have any effect on the rents. Rents seem to be more tied to general economic health of the city and whether or not housing prices/interest rates are favorable. (More homebuyers, less renters and vice-versa)
For the person/people who keep asking what happens to someone who makes $40,001, if you check out the city's affordable housing programs you will see that salary requirements vary from one development to another. Where this development serves people making under $40,000 another development will be for peoplemaking between $40,000 & $75,000, and another may serve people making only $50,000 to $60,000. These programs usually serve people under $90,000 and are available in all five boroughs. They are usually awarded by lottery and they are tough to come by, but it's great that they are available. check out the dept of housing preservation and development for more details.