The Flag in Grand Central Terminal

There's a thought-provoking essay in the Observer suggesting it's time to take down the huge American flag in the heart of the terminal. The flag was placed in Grand Central soon after September 11, 2001, and MTA Metro-North spokeswoman says the flag's "nearly four stories tall" size is "basically unprecedented." (There is also a smaller, standard sized flag in the hall.)

John Lumea explains how icons work in public spaces and how public spaces are experienced. Then add to that the public's poor perception of the war. He writes:

What makes Grand Central exceptional is that it’s the one place anywhere in New York where you can stand right in the middle of the most careening rush of human ambition and diversity, yet be completely alone in your reverie. This is the urban embodiment of the American idea of welcome and possibility, and it’s what makes Grand Central’s main hall a great American room.

Icons must be seen to be felt. For its entire history, Grand Central has had two icons: the great gilded, four-faced clock below and the sky ceiling—one of the glories of New York—above. And yet, today, our view of the Grand Central sky is forcibly distracted, mediated, and blocked by a competing icon: a four-story-tall American flag.

The flag always is a contested symbol, since it stands both for general national ideals and specific national policies being carried out in the name of those ideals.

For those who see President Bush’s war policy as an expression of national ideals, Grand Central’s flags “hold together”—they are true.

But for the solid and increasing majority who oppose the war, national ideals are especially hard to decipher in the Grand Central flags, which lord over the main hall as corporatized, Orwellian symbols of state power and pride.

Lumea suggests instead, "Take the current flags down and plant a single flagpole in the floor of Grand Central’s main hall. Make it tall. Raise a simple flag to half-mast, and leave it there until every last combat veteran in Iraq is either redeployed or comes home."

It's a fascinating thing to think more about. Lumea will be publishing a longer version of his essay at his site, Horizonr.

And other prominent flags in NYC's recent history are the one on the building across from Ground Zero and the one outside the New York Stock Exchange (thanks, readers).

Update: Lumea wrote to us, "As far as I can tell, there is only one other clearly documented case of an extremely large American flag being hung at Grand Central -- and I can't help but think that the comparison is telling. In late 1957, shortly after the successful Soviet launch of Sputnik 1, the U.S. Army's Redstone nuclear missile was briefly displayed in Grand Central's main hall as part of a promotional campaign to calm America's cold-war nerves. A flag comparable to the largest flag now at Grand Central was used as a backdrop."

Here's what that looked like.

Photograph by edEx on Flickr

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

By Jen Chung in News on July 11, 2007 2:58 PM

Comments [rss]

american100percent

Wow, seems that since July 2007 quite a few have lost interest....

(1) George Bush and the flag are not interchangeable, and Mr. Bush did not prompt the millions who hung the flag after 9/11 to do so. If you are not a native New Yorker, I would not expect you to be impacted quite the same as those who were, are, live and work in it, or, more importantly, bore the brunt of the attack and lost love ones to feel the same. You can stop relating the hanging of the flag to anything to do with George Bush. Save you criticisms re: Mr. Bush for a another forum. Oh, and by the way, if Clinton wasn't impeached, what chance do you have to do the same to Bush. Many people in this country WASTE ENERGY pointing their little two party fingers at each other. 9/11 WILL ALWAYS be in the front of the minds of New YOrkers. We don't have the luxury of removing ourselves, our lives, our families and our homes from the events of that day. And for people who lived thru it, it is ONLY YESTERDAY. God help those so insensitive as to suggest otherwise. I'll bet your family was spared that day!

(2) the flag, while gone for a short period, was being cleaned. but, if you don't like seeeing the American flag hung, then perhaps this is not the country for you? Since when is the display of the flag a negative? We should ALL have a private-ownership mentality about this nation. AND WORK THRU LEGAL CHANNELS TO FIX WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT.

(3) to #33: so you think that all the corporate ads (in particular the Kodak ad) that once festooned this hall beats the flag? interesting. the hall was a mess years ago. it looks fabulous now.

(4) #43 well, I'm sure your German grandmother waived one of those german flags during WWII. Tell her the flags were not the problem, the attitude of the Germans at the time was. Because if there were any non-nazi citizens in Germany, they sure knew how to hide all those years. Aggressive little bunch, huh? The day I worry about what a nazi-era german national has to say about the U.S. is the day I dig up all my relatives that died fighting them! 62% of all Americans currently have some German blood. maybe that accounts for some of the problems we face today? So, what were the remainder of your relatives doing during the Nazi era? care to comment truthfully on that?

(5) #45 - the escalators are constantly being repaired. can you spell "separate the issues?"

(6) I can only guess at the mindset of individuals that can't separate their dislike for Bush from viewing the flag. Get help - it is available to you.

I come from people who have always worked hard to be good citizens, fought in wars, paid taxes, were and are good members of society. The flag makes me happy EVERY TIME I SEE IT. It is a beautiful flag. I could not imagine being upset by the sight of it.

galvo

i am all for the removal of the flag, the flag waving and display flag also remind me of all the Nazi movement. A flagpole in gct would be a great place to lock up a bike while using the bathroom.

that reminds me one of my bike bags came with a American flag on it, since it is on the rear i rarely see it , i do need to cover it up. The flag remind me to much of this administration. after 9-11 i was a flag waving patriot, but as the lies and bs unfolded i too am seeing it as a symbol of bush 43 and his administration.

guest

Interesting how everyone assumes the flag and our national anthem are necessarily symbolic of this current administration.

guest

If they have money to put up a four story high flag, why don't they fix the godamm escalators?

Gwinny

Ummm. Okay, weird. I walked through Grand Central this morning and the big flag was back. Conspiracy? Unpatriotic hallucination on my part last night? I don't know... but in any case, I think it should come down too. I'm generally opposed to empty, jingoistic gestures.

guest

A short while after we moved to Kentucky, my German grandmother came to visit. Driving home from the airport, her first impression/comment to my mother was "My god, Barbara, I haven't seen so many flags since the Nazis were in power!"

That was 1977. I wonder what she would say now.

Gwinny

I saw this post, then walked through Grand Central on my way home.

Guess what, guys? The big flag is GONE. In fact, I think it's been gone for some time, because I walk through there all the time and can't recall the last time I saw it. There's still a smaller one hanging in the middle of the hall, but that's it.

I'm all for cutting "God Bless America" from Yankees games, though. I also never miss the chance to loudly say "...Our OIL" when the announcer gets to the part about paying tribute to the soldiers who are serving overseas to protect "Our way of life."

Kojak

I would be agreeing with most of you, but after 9/11 I just seemed to have a greater appreciation for the flag, even after 6 years. Nothing wrong with a little Patriotism. I would place the flag elsewhere though.

I wouldn’t call it obnoxious, but its does get in the way a little of the beauty that is Grand Central Station.

And YES Landor [17] I agree whole heartedly. But it did feel pretty good.

guest

That flag is obnoxiously big, but after reading about this guy's asinine half-mast idea I hope they keep it. Taking his idea further, he should propose to the city council that all flags in the city be flown at half mast until all troops stationed around the world come home, or until Bush is impeached. I'm sure Charles Barron would support it. Gothamist, this isn't fascinating at all, it's childish.

guest

Presidents and policies come and go, but the flag remains.

guest

The flag should stay

www.forgotten-ny.com

cool

And we can stop singing God Bless America at every Yankees game during the 7th inning.

guest

#31 - You're right, it wouldn't fly. But since when was the Grand Central train station supposed to be some kind of temple for religious nationalists?

guest

#31 - You're right, it would fly. But is Grand Central Station supposed to be some kind of temple for religious nationalists?

guest

right on, drewo

guest

I like the huge flag, I don't see it as super-fascist or anything. I just think the big hall at GC is more impressive without anything hanging up there. (When my buddy and I first visited NYC as teenagers we used to walk across the entire main GC hall while looking at the ceiling the whole time, because it amazed us that New Yorkers seemed to have some magical ability to avoid crashing into other people.) Why not just hang the flag on Independence day and maybe Washington's birthday, or find some other place for it?

drewo

Americans seem to enjoy empty symbolism: yellow ribbons, colored plastic braces, trite anthems, super-sized flags. Waving a flag or putting on a "Support The Troops" bumper sticker is an easy way to pretend you care about your country - when it's actually a cop-out.

guest

You should go to your local mosque and recommend they take down their symbols and see how that flies...

Bickle

Does anyone else remember when subway cars did not have American flag decals? If I remember correctly, the trains started bearing the flags a couple months after 9/11.

guest

big flag = lil dick

guest

The telling thing about the flag at the NYSE is that it's occasionally taken down and replaced with a giant sign for one of the companies traded there.

That says a lot, I think.

Alex

I don't have any problem with the flag in the Terminal, and his suggestion about putting a pole in the middle is pretty ridiculous. I don't think its presence ruins the building or anything like that (a pole sticking out in the middle of the floor would). What he suggests is simply an attempt to change its meaning in his eyes; from representing what he calls "orwellian symbols of state power" to a lame activist statement against the war. Just let it be.

Also, the NYSE flag should be removed. That huge flag definitely ruins the building.

guest

waving a flag does not make u patriotic

guest

A compromise: leave the flag, but please stop singing God Bless America in the seventh inning.

Ace

Leave that big beautiful flag right where it is.

guest

yeah janelle

its pretty much lost its resonance

players and fans seem pretty bored while that horrible tape recording is blasted thru the speakers

Elderta

Sure, if only I worked in a library.

Aristocrat

Aren't there books that need reshelving?

janelle

while we're at it, can we cut "god bless america" from the 7th inning stretch?

Elderta

Really, guest, that's your criteria?

And Aristocrat... blah blah blah.

guest

i'm sorry but that huge ass flag is an eyesore

absolutely ruins the beautiful GCT

the only ones who want such a flag probably also drive big SUV's, live in McMansions in westchester, could lose a few pounds . . . see a pattern here?

Landor

No, Kojak, I respectfully disagree. On 9/12/01, instead of rattling swords, beating chests, flying giant flags, and shouting into the dark; we should have shut up and listed. Listened to what our friends had to say. Listened to what our enemies were saying. We got into trouble after 9/11 because emotion governed our actions, not reason.

Aristocrat

Ahhh, you gotta love the bleeding heart liberals injecting cynicism into every f*cking thing they see.

guest

I can't take anyone's instructions about the flag seriously if they don't know the difference between half-staff and half-mast.

Grand Central station is not a ship.

guest

on 9/12 i was pretty much in shock, as was the rest of the world

9/12 was perhaps the most peaceful day in the history of this planet

but i got cynical pretty soon after

distrustful of the crooks in charge

and its been 6 years of hell ever since

guest

I disagree Kojak, I would've. I watched this city become exactly what I'd left the midwest for post 9/11. Stars & Striped deities as far as thee eye can see. Pretty silly to even have to engage in debate over what's ultimately a child-like display of symbolism and fervor. It's just cloth, baby. They make underwear out of it too (sometimes w/ stars and stripes on 'em!).

guest

The point is it hasn't been Sept 12th, 2001 for nearly six year.

guest

Whatever, Kojak. September 11th was an awful thing, but it didn't make me fly flags or love America. I just mourned the chickens coming home to roost.

guest

uh, but it's not September 12th, 2001 - it's July 11th, 2007 - almost 6 years after 9/11 and over 4 years since the war started (and since "major combat operations ended" GWB). It's just plain old time to take it down. I don't agree with all the objections to symbolism Lumea brings up though. The flag is a good thing - but all good things should be applied with some moderation.

FY! - state institutions (like Grand Central) can only lower the American flag to half staff if okayed by either the governer or the legislature (depending on the state) and only the President can order the flag to half staff at federal sites. Lumea's planned protest is simply not going to happen given the political issues and realities at hand.

guest

7

its not

Elderta

I wasn't saying much on 9/12/01 besides, "Oh, shit."

Kojak

None of you would be saying that if it was September 12th, 2001.

Landor

@(1) - Flying the flag upside down indicates distress. I can't say I disagree with you.

guest

I agree. And what about the flag across the NY Stock Exchange - that one seems to be almost more obnoxious.

guest

take it down

give it (the obnoxious flag waving) a rest

plus, i would love to see bill oreilly's head explode

guest

burn it

Spirit of 76

It has been my experience that those who are first to fly the American flag are often the last to stand up for the principles behind it. There is a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism. They also show an abhorrent ignorance of the flag code and the proper way to treat a flag with respect, from wearing it as decorative clothing to flying it 24/7 without proper lighting to leaving them up tattered, faded and dirty to just plain hanging them wrong (with the star field in the wrong place).