June 26, 2007
Transit Authority Confirms Subways are Crowded
The most hilarious thing we read today was that the NYC Transit Authority has "loading guidelines" for passengers. In a story about how subways are extremely packed, the NY Times offered this gem:
Crowding is so bad that on the 4, 5, 6 and L lines, trains during the morning rush exceed the transit agency’s loading guidelines, which posit that every rider should have at least a three-square-foot space to stand in (that translates to a square patch of car floor 20 inches on each side).We were flabbergasted: Three square feet of subway in subways is a luxury for off-peak hours. Or the train where there's not air conditioning.
NYCTA president Howard Roberts Jr. said that 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and E lines are all at capacity and no more trains can be added to the track to alleviate crowding. And with the Mayor determined to pass congestion pricing and to shift commuters to mass transit, Roberts said, "It’s bad news. There’s no room at the inn.” Forget the inn - what will SantaCon Santas do?
It's not all funny - it's worrying how crowded the subways are. And it totally makes sense that crowded trains cause delays - getting people off and on during rush hours can be endless. This graphic from the Times shows capacity and on-time info on all the lines. Though there may be additional trains on the C, D and L lines and there's been talk of longer platforms, Roberts emphasized, "The answer is: Relief is not around the corner" for subways. Unless relief is faster bus service.
Photograph by shveckle on Flickr
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I like this new guy, too.
the guy has croakies on his glasses and he doesn't have that American flag pin of idiots.
I know it's not possible, but sometimes I feel like I occupy negative space in the subway, because I'm so poked and prodded with bags. During some of my rush hour commutes, I think I take up less than one square foot of space.
maybe congestion pricing would allow for actual bus SERVICE (or express?? a girl can dream, you know).
I can't believe that the F train isn't at over 100% capacity. This morning I had to wait for two trains to pass through the Carroll Street station before I could actually fit...and I don't need much room.
Or you could just get up 30 minutes earlier or leave work 30 minutes later. Cost? $0.
I'm going to have to switch my morning commute from the R/W to the 4/5 and I'm not happy about it at all. The R/W is gloriously uncrowded in the morning.
Also, great planning that the subways are practically at capacity now and we're trying to guide MORE people to them. Politicians are obscenely disorganized.
I refuse to believe all of those lines listed are at capacity (in terms of number of trains running, that is). I typically wait 10-15 minutes (and have waited as long as 25) for a 4 or 5 train headed to Brooklyn during evening rush hour - no way you couldn't fit more trains in there.
And if there were more trains running, it'd take less time for people to get off and on.
Another thing that would speed things up (but good luck getting people to do this): if people waiting to get onto a train actually stood to the side while people were trying to get off rather than standing right in front of the door and blocking other people's way.
Well, that's good news for the frotteur...
...not to mention the many horny old jews pervs out there!
Yes, this fat old guy with a yarmulke once rubbed himself against my leg! Ecchhhh!
{5} "Or you could just get up 30 minutes earlier or leave work 30 minutes later. Cost? $0."
That is probably the best way to fight overcrowding on the trains. 30 minutes or an hour can make an amazing difference in your commute. Too bad not everyone has the option to change their schedules.
That is probably the best way to fight overcrowding on the trains. 30 minutes or an hour can make an amazing difference in your commute. Too bad not everyone has the option to change their schedules.
Nobody ever got in trouble for going into work early. Or you can use the time to run your errands in the morning. If you have kids, they should be up early anyway. As for the evening, if you were leaving at the 5:00 to 6:00 rush hour it doesn't seem like you need to be home in a hurry anyway.
What I find funniest is that the V is put to less use than the G. The G!
The Lexington Avenue trains are pretty much a nightmare between 7:30 and 9:30 in the morning, and between 4:30 and 7:00 in the evening. Moving your commute out of those times isn't an option unless you want to get to work super early (as in before the office opens in most cases), or superlate.
And the 83% on time percentage is somewhat misleading, since when a train breaks down, or there is a "sick passenger" or "police investigation", then it can be really late. How much late is completely unpredictable, since it varies depending on the problem of the week.
The commentator who called for express buses was on the money. The MTA actually can't do much more to improve the train service without a huge infusion of capital. However, the buses in NY are the slowest in the world (there are statistics showing this), and service can be improved just by looking at how buses are run in other countries, where buses aren't just for the poor and the elderly and actually have to move people around reasonably quickly.
Or you could just ride a bike, which costs $0, involves no waiting, lets you skip your daily trip to the gym, and is great for the environment. Oh, wait, I forgot -- bicyclists have no rights in this city.
#14, I felt compelled to check it (I believed you anyways), and yes, they are the slowest.
BRT - Bus Rapid Transit - is the way to go for the city. Enrique Penalosa's work as mayor of Bogota, Colombia, turned a massively gridlocked city into a worldwide example for mass transit efficiency.
http://www.naparstek.com/2005/01/surface-subway.php
StreetFilms has an excellent (appx. 12 minute) interview with Penalosa. Worth a watch if you don't believe transit can be fixed in the greatest city in the world.
It's tough to dig a subway tunnel. It's a lot easier to do this.
http://www.nycsr.org/nyc/video-view.php?id=19
My mistake for not posting the link to the Penalosa interview in my last comment.
I do appreciate how Jen Chung added nothing to this article. Thanks for copy and pasting the NYT hours after I read it, Jen! It's a wonder you're smart enough to turn on a computer.
Staggering work schedules/commuting times definitely alleviates much of the congestion on the trains, but unfortunately, that isn't an option for many. I go to grad school a few nights a week after work, but I already go in early and skip lunch in order to leave early on those days.
AND if freaking people would step into the middle of the car, that would help things a lot.
I refuse to believe all of those lines listed are at capacity (in terms of number of trains running, that is). I typically wait 10-15 minutes (and have waited as long as 25) for a 4 or 5 train headed to Brooklyn during evening rush hour
All that means is that somewhere in the system there are two or three trains one station apart because people were holding the doors open and not letting the train leave the station.
what a surprise woo jeez
and wait or run fast when all those new super-sized buildings have super-sized tenants
it is gonna be sooo niiice to ride the train.
A red bus tourist guide voice says:
Welcome to fat New York ham city, where tall and fat buildings meet the sky, and train rides are sweaty ordeal.
is Bloomberg thinking?:
Why have trains in a city of fat buildings?
Let's bulldozer all Lower East side, well not Katz deli....
The idea of adding additional cars to trains is interesting but seems as if it would cost billions to enlarge hundreds of stations. And it's kind of obscene how long and difficult upgrading the L's signal system was, but I fail to believe it has to be that way if the contractor wasn't full of complete baffoons (they switched contractors at least once), and it should be upgraded on all the lines bursting at the seams ASAP.
There are a few reasons you might feel as if there is an excess amount of time between 4/5 trains--first is bunching, due to things like door holding; the other is that these lines merge with other lines in the outer boros and there has to be enough track room for those lines too. Some reconfiguration track expansions and new switches/connectors could probably help improve the efficiency of service without carving out stations.
And yes, BRT corridors and express buses. Lots of them. Now. Done right. BEFORE congestion pricing goes into effect or the subway system is going to be unbearable.
I forgot -- bicyclists have no rights in this city.
If you want to be taken seriously you need to drop the whining and the hyperbole.
Also, a better door closing program would be helpful--the new trains have the ability to reopen only doors that failed to close on the first try, but for whatever reason NYCT doesn't use it. Courtesy messages that emphasize how one person can cause huge delays rather than safety (really, who's worried?). How about a nice loud scolding buzzer and flashing light at the doors that can't close. And agents ticketing passengers that hold them open.
#16
Great collective dream
the only thing Peñalosa forgot to mention is the high pollution in Bogotá, so unless they manage to take illegal buses in Bogotá and old cars out of circulation, to ride your bike there during traffic hours is a high risk for your health, not to mention how dirty you are afterwards, black boogers come out!
I was there in April 2007
Further in New York is too dangerous to ride a bike, I liked Peñalosa's comments: Do you want a friendly city to cars or to pedestrians....to paint a white line and think that that is a bike lane where an 8 year old can't ride is absurd...
I live in Brooklyn Heights and don't even want to imagine how bad it will get once Atlantic Yards is built. The trains are so damn crowded now.
People just need to stop moving to NYC. We have too many people here. Everyone go away.
The Times graphic explains a lot. I really only use the D,N,Q,R,F,B to get into the city and they're rarely overcrowded. Another reason for you to hate Park Slope and for me to love it.
They need to implement the computer based train control already, we've been sending people into space for 50 years and yet we still have the equivalent of horse drawn buggies in the subways. MTA what gives? Screw the unions, THE PEOPLE NEED CBTC NOW...
(They need to implement the computer based train control already, we've been sending people into space for 50 years and yet we still have the equivalent of horse drawn buggies in the subways. MTA what gives? Screw the unions, THE PEOPLE NEED CBTC NOW...)
The signal system is only one constraint on capacity. The Queens Boulevard Express is the only line maxed out on that basis -- at 30 trains per hour.
The Lex Express is constrained by dwell time Grand Central. It takes people so long to squeeze in and out that you can't run more than 27 trains per hour there.
The L and 6 are constrained by terminal capacity. It takes to long to get trains in and out of 8th Avenue/Brooklyn Bridge to run more of them.
The 2/3 is constrained by the merge at Eastern Parkway and Nostrand. There are only so many trains that can be run through there, even though there is room for more elsewhere on the line.
And there aren't enough cars, or places to store them overnight. But that is the easiest to fix.
Off peak? Plenty of capacity all ways around. They should let people work 1/2 day at home.
The commentator who called for express buses was on the money.
That was me...and I should have clarified this by stating the express busses could actually be "express" with fewer cars on the road.
[31], that's interesting info, thanks for posting it.
The ideas on express buses and bikes are both great valid ones for those who live less than 10 miles from their job. And those who can either, 1. afford this (x-bus is ten dollars round-trip) or 2. use this mode of transportation without getting hurt. The bike paths in my area are insane. There are too many drivers, but then again, I could walk to Westchester in a few minutes.
Why not use this information, as old and redundant as it is, to rally for the SAS (Second Ave Subway) and for better bicycle and bus legislation and improvements? Why is it we all rabble and rouse here on Gothamist but don't do a thing in the voting booth or on the phone with a friend to get the word out? Stop bitching and join a movement. Sometimes it's as simple as forwarding an e-mail.
@ JMH #7 & guest #20 : Amen to getting the hell away from the doors so people can get out and stepping into the middle of the cars.
I'll believe the 4,5,6 are at capacity. They're pretty packed on the weekends as it is. More frequent trains would help though, and the time gaps between them now makes me think the MTA could fit them in (though reading #31 makes me think twice).
Something needs to be done in the next few years (2nd Ave. line will help somewhat if it actually gets finished). That will help, but with all the new residences being built in Brooklyn, this is only going to get worse.