Gothamist: Starve Harlem to Save It?

Elderta

Mon, 04 Jun 2007 10:25:53 -0500

Right, Stan... I sounded mad and made a fool of myself? Well, I guess I would rather be 'mad' than a mad fool like yourself.

Berry

Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:54:54 -0500

Yeah, lets do like #50 the Harlem resident said so that even Harlem can become like the rest of NYC and white men can spit on blacks and call them names when they go outside of their own neighborhood. Oh wait, the blacks won't have a neighborhood to go outside of. Hmmm, let's think on this one.

Blah

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:48:58 -0500

Here's the plan: Clear out Staten Island and offer it to whichever blacks want to move in. Prohibit anyone else from applying but blacks and let them run it via whatever political process they devise and call it a protectorate of the US. On the island, it's their way or the highway. Fund the hell out of it. Fix it up so that all the infrastructure is top-notch -- good transpo, social services, ample grocery stores, etc. Set up a system that ensures a living wage for everyone on the island. Create a couple universities on the island with top-notch professors (I am sure many would apply) and a few hospitals. Essentially provide every advantage and opportunity imaginable. Then stand back and watch it go to shit anyway.

mb

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 03:19:37 -0500

Great example of a "Dr" (ie. PhD) vs. a "Dr" (i.e. MD). Obviously this guy knows jack shit about science (based on his understanding of pork and carrots) and his "knowledge" is based on an interpretation of a 2000 year old myth. Harlem, do yourselves a favor and tell this hustler to go shit in his hat.

jrez

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:56:22 -0500

exactly. "People always ask me how an economy in my neighborhood can exist if we boycott all the stores, and the answer is simple: Volume."

mike

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 01:30:52 -0500

One word sums this up: GARBAGE. I couldn't even make it past the second page. It would make an excellent Saturday Night Live skit.

Harlem resident

Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:01:48 -0500

This idea is ridiculous and the more time we spend discussing it, the more credence we give it. Let's ignore it like I do when black people yell racist remarks to me in the ever increasing gentrified area of West Harlem. If we ignore this man and this idea, people will never know it existed.

JAS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:29:13 -0500

I find the article in the times that Blacks are leaving the city because the places they migrate to have lower crime rates hilarious cause as soon as the blacks move there the crime rate has risen. Black people want the businesses out of harlem cause if the neighborhood becomes gentrified then blacks can't live there. I think in ten years NYC will be completely gentrified and no blacks will live here cause they would have to take a bus an hour to manhattan to rob people

what?!

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 22:09:17 -0500

what a fucking moron! where did this idiot get the phd next to his name? stupid ass u?? wow!

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:04:41 -0500

Aw, don't be mad cause you made a fool of yourself. Enjoy the weather!

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:02:00 -0500

used... ;) and have a great weekend all...

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:59:17 -0500

uh... the period goes inside the quote marks... shoulda use Chicago... have a great weekend, Stan.

Frog

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:52:46 -0500

It's easy to be ludicrous when you can just blame whitey if the plan fails.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:50:33 -0500

It's "hanger". Should've reached for the dictionary.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:49:52 -0500

I can manage my own time. But thanks!

stan's mother

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:39:48 -0500

Should have reached for the hangar when I had the chance.

Aristocrat

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:32:28 -0500

It's not so old that you're not doing it, Stan. Seriously, the fact that you're constantly revisiting comments to eagerly rebutt all oncomers is pretty pathetic. It's Friday, it's nice out, you're clearly not working very hard, so just get outside.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:16:29 -0500

hr, that's so old. What's next? You are going to link us to the dancing baby? SOOO COOL!

mocanlagunas

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:14:54 -0500

Lol... Not as retarded as Rev. James Manning... Unfortunately, after Harlem comes Wash. Height, and then Inwood... I have to start looking now... somewhere in Kansas maybe!

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:11:02 -0500

I don't understand the obsession with race. That's what I don't understand. So some people move out, others move in. Big deal. It's been going on forever as provided in my examples.

hr

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:01:05 -0500

Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even though you've won, you're still retarded.

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:59:48 -0500

Win or lose... is that only what all of this is about? Nothing about humans, people? Hmm. No empathy, I guess, money trumps all. Anyway, I just lost my original comment, but here goes... I can understand where both the Harlem and Bay Ridge communities are coming from, even if I don't agree with the tactics used by either. People who feel like they are losing their homes and neighbors and neighborhoods will do all kinds of things to keep them. Hence when I say "I can understand where they are coming from," I understand the pain of losing the familiar. I don't understand the burning crosses or the proposals to starve your community, but I do understand, why people want to keep their homes. I'm sorry if Stan or Z doesn't have the heart to understand that.

z

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:47:33 -0500

Sorry elderta, u lose. @22 brilliant! lmfao People in harlem need to realize that it is simply a question of WHEN not IF Harlem will be gentrified. It doesn't matter what they do. The current residents there will have to move out of nyc if they can't afford it. See #21

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:24:01 -0500

Right, and if you actually read what I said... Again, the native community of Harlem used to be white. That changed back in the early 20th century. What's the big deal if it happens to change again in the early 21st? "I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though" - that merely signifies that you disagree with the means, but not with the message. Imagine if the residents of Bay Ridge said "let's keep our neighborhood white", what would you say then? That you understand where they are "coming from"?

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:18:26 -0500

Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but you are wrong about native communities in New York City. There are native communities in NYC, as their have always been. And if you actually read my comment without that smirk in your soul, you would see that I said that I can understand where they are coming from, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. What part of "I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though" don't you understand?

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:09:48 -0500

elderta, Uh, why don't you put 2 and 2 together. Look, blacks worrying about getting pushed out by the rising real estate prices is akin to whites worrying about their property values going down when blacks move in. You can't justify one without justifying the other. Harlem used to white, Bronx was italian, east New York was Jewish. Now they are black. So what if now it goes the other way a little? It's a natural flow.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:03:27 -0500

haha :P

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:01:59 -0500

Stan, your comment has nothing to do with what I wrote. Try the Free Republic. They will probably love you there.

nope not americant

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:58:33 -0500

Nope, you immigrated here. you not american, you go back to where you came from. don't care if you're a citizen, you immigrated here, you go back pronto. citizen, smitizen, phooey.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:52:42 -0500

"Stan is not an American, he immigrated here." I am an american, because I am an american citizen. Duh.

JT

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:52:41 -0500

Why stop at boycotting stores??? Why not urinate everywhere and set fire to buildings at random??? That will show them!

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:48:24 -0500

Elderta, Fascinating. Do you support people who burns crosses on the lawns of blacks who move into white neighborhoods? Would you be understanding of the "natives" then?

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:47:55 -0500

Actually, my last comment about the neighborhood stores doesn't work, since the endgame of this proposal is to drive out the money so that current residents can afford to buy into the neighborhood.

i'm afraid of americans

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:47:50 -0500

Stan is not an American, he immigrated here. He never set foot in Marcus garvey park. He just follows the conservative line like any other brainwashed person. You know, the pull yourself up by your bootstraps, capitalism is King, Market forces will even things out, no affirmative action, etc etc.

bob

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:44:34 -0500

This is madness! This is HARLEM!!!

mobility

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:36:42 -0500

black-American residents of this city have nowhere else to go. We're not moving up the economic ladder and out of the city, That's not entirely true. The Times did a piece last year about how many African Americans are leaving New York for other parts of the country. Reasons cited were lower cost of living elsewhere, more job opportunities elsewhere, lower crime rates, and because they had family in other parts of the country. It wasn't an entriely positive article. One single mother found that her kids still got into trouble and fell in with a gang.

teletubbie

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:36:31 -0500

Hmmm... forget trying to find opportunities and education for my people that will lift them out of economic oppression and let them lead lives of self-determination and fulfillment. No! Let us throw down the gauntlet to the white capitalist masters... by patronizing their stores and thus lowering the rents in Harlem! The Revolution will not be televised!

Elderta

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:36:25 -0500

Stan, sorry, but the argument that Harlem doesn't have "natives" is a little disengenious, even coming from you. That's like saying that Woodlawn isn't native to the Irish, Greenpoint to the Polish or Chinatown to the Chinese. People make their homes in like groups (particularly the minorities above who weren't wanted in any other places in the city), and traditionally in the 20th century, Harlem became home to blacks... because they really had nowhere else to go... especially after being pushed out of the Lincoln Center area... or Greenwich Village for that matter. (Look it up) I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though. I understand where the Rev. is coming from, but starving the neighborhoods just reminds me of rioting in your own neighborhood. It only destroys the place where you live. Maybe strengthening the 'native' stores would be a better way to go?

MT

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:32:40 -0500

Are you sure this isn't a hoax? This sounds absolutely preposterous.

hr

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:31:43 -0500

like these people will be able to go without the largest Foot Locker in the city? Eh ... supermarkets and books are overrated anyway.

Berry

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:29:08 -0500

you all missed the best part (this was discussed before elsewhere) where he says that does his grocery shopping with Fresh Direct but his flock can catch a bus or subway to get their groceries -- outside of their neighborhood.Um, wasn't that the whole problem with Harlem before...not enough resources within the community. Not enough dollars and employment. Now that it's here let's go back to the good ole' days when "the man" held us down. I suspect his agenda is very selfish.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:25:39 -0500

"your historical slave mind" If that isn't racist then I don't know what is.

John

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:18:03 -0500

Seems like this might backfire: local stores go out of business, prime real estate gets gobbled up by large corporations/real estate developers= faster gentrification.

Sarah

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:17:21 -0500

Best line from brochure (page 6): "If you are hesitant, and doubtful, remember you have been in darkness and slavery, and it is against your nature to think in terms of true political power and plenteous wealth... Your feeling is only natural to your historical slave mind." Talk about preaching a victim mentality. I can understand the idea of it being preferable for local residents to own local businesses rather than big chains and conglomerates, and some of the brochure's suggestions for how to plan for opening a business (pay off debt, make a business plan, secure line of credit) are all well and good. But This guy took a perfectly good idea and went to the zoo. He's also apparently telling people that carrots cure cancer (page 21). I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

behind closed doors

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:16:37 -0500

wow, sure is easy to get whitey riled up. How many died today in Iraq or now fort lewis won't have individual memorials because it takes too long and almost a daily event. Now they're having it once a month for a month's worth of dead soldiers. I thought whitey's approach was to leave them alone and let them ruin themselves to the ground? now you're giving advice?

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:12:59 -0500

matukonyc, "Why does the neighborhood have to displace its natives and become "gentrified" in order to become "livable?" " What do you mean by "natives"? Neighborhoods don't belong to certain groups, you know. Harlem was all white in the early 20th century. Should blacks have been prevented from moving in because they caused the "natives" to move out?

hh

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:56:21 -0500

Hey #8: I read it, and all the approved businesses are outside of Harlem. He says that no one should spend any money at all inside the "drought zone" except at a selected few shops, to be designated in the future (probably owned by his uncles). From the church's website: "Formerly known Harlem has been renamed: ATLAH ATLAH means, the land where the people shall walk barefoot, because the land is holy ground." (And because there's no place to buy shoes.)

amsci

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:39:55 -0500

::Reads PDF:: Holy crap, eating pork can make your heart explode!! Mario Batali is a walking time bomb!

matukonyc

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:38:40 -0500

If you read the manifesto, he's proposing a boycott of "interloper" businesses, not ones run by Harlem residents or at least traditionally run by black people. @Amazed: Why does the neighborhood have to displace its natives and become "gentrified" in order to become "livable?" Why move porn shops out of one area when they're allowed in all other neighborhoods, just to please a certain sector of big business? Unlike other ethnic groups and many immigrants, black-American residents of this city have nowhere else to go. We're not moving up the economic ladder and out of the city, so once we're displaced, that'll be that and NYC will be much the poorer for it.

bob

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:36:57 -0500

No, don't work hard and try to improve your lot in life... bring the neighborhood down to your level...geez

hr

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:30:23 -0500

It's like when prisoners finally get out of jail, they're uncomfortable and wish for the comfort of being in a cell because it's all they know. Seems very similar, that many residents of harlem have been let out of the social & financial ruins of years past, and they're uncomfortable with the success and don't know what to do with it ... so they'd like to revert to what they know best and are comfortable. Thi is so fucked up!!! Glad that I wasn't 'progressive' enough to actually think of living above 110th Street.

Stan LS

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:28:51 -0500

And while we are at it, lets have more crime! That will surely drive the rent down!

henry

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:28:08 -0500

just goes to show hoe poor blacks are often a victim of their own "leaders" rather than ol' whitey

Wanted: Real Black Leadership for Once

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:26:55 -0500

The stupidity of this proposal is just mind-boggling. Yeah, keep my people down, living in poverty and disenfranchisement because that's the only way they can possibly survive in 21st century America?

Amazed...

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:23:29 -0500

Yes, because what Harlem needs is a return to a time when noone ever wanted to live there. Even better, they should relax the legislation to allow the porn shops from old Times Square to be the only type of establishments allowed. Where do they grow these people?

henry

Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:23:00 -0500

what a sad, impoverished mentality