June 1, 2007
Starve Harlem to Save It?
A Harlem minister is leading a bizarre boycott of businesses in his neighborhood with the goal of forcing stores out of Harlem to ease rising rent pressure. Rev. James Manning heads Atlah Ministries on West 123rd St. and believes that if money stops flowing to Harlem stores, they will go out of business and rents in the neighborhood will decrease. This actually makes sense to us in that yes, a self-imposed economic blight, with rows of vacant storefronts, would probably lead to lower property values. Still, it doesn't seem like the best or even sensible idea. Nonetheless, Reverend Manning is committed to encouraging Harlemites to travel outside of a zone between 110th and 155th Streets to do their shopping until May 2010 or until Harlem is an affordable economic wasteland.
A spokesperson for Councilwoman Inez Dickens, who represents Harlem, said that while they respected Rev. Manning, they didn't think a boycott of area businesses would be helpful to residents. AM New York asked around the neighborhood and found few who'd heard of the boycott, but when told about it some people seemed receptive to the idea. The booklet explaining the boycott and including a list of targeted businesses in Harlem can be read here (pdf file). It's certainly interesting.
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what a sad, impoverished mentality
Yes, because what Harlem needs is a return to a time when noone ever wanted to live there. Even better, they should relax the legislation to allow the porn shops from old Times Square to be the only type of establishments allowed.
Where do they grow these people?
The stupidity of this proposal is just mind-boggling. Yeah, keep my people down, living in poverty and disenfranchisement because that's the only way they can possibly survive in 21st century America?
just goes to show hoe poor blacks are often a victim of their own "leaders" rather than ol' whitey
And while we are at it, lets have more crime! That will surely drive the rent down!
It's like when prisoners finally get out of jail, they're uncomfortable and wish for the comfort of being in a cell because it's all they know. Seems very similar, that many residents of harlem have been let out of the social & financial ruins of years past, and they're uncomfortable with the success and don't know what to do with it ... so they'd like to revert to what they know best and are comfortable. Thi is so fucked up!!! Glad that I wasn't 'progressive' enough to actually think of living above 110th Street.
No, don't work hard and try to improve your lot in life... bring the neighborhood down to your level...geez
If you read the manifesto, he's proposing a boycott of "interloper" businesses, not ones run by Harlem residents or at least traditionally run by black people.
@Amazed: Why does the neighborhood have to displace its natives and become "gentrified" in order to become "livable?" Why move porn shops out of one area when they're allowed in all other neighborhoods, just to please a certain sector of big business?
Unlike other ethnic groups and many immigrants, black-American residents of this city have nowhere else to go. We're not moving up the economic ladder and out of the city, so once we're displaced, that'll be that and NYC will be much the poorer for it.
::Reads PDF::
Holy crap, eating pork can make your heart explode!! Mario Batali is a walking time bomb!
Hey #8: I read it, and all the approved businesses are outside of Harlem. He says that no one should spend any money at all inside the "drought zone" except at a selected few shops, to be designated in the future (probably owned by his uncles).
From the church's website:
"Formerly known Harlem has been renamed: ATLAH
ATLAH means, the land where the people shall walk barefoot, because the land is holy ground."
(And because there's no place to buy shoes.)
matukonyc,
"Why does the neighborhood have to displace its natives and become "gentrified" in order to become "livable?" "
What do you mean by "natives"? Neighborhoods don't belong to certain groups, you know. Harlem was all white in the early 20th century. Should blacks have been prevented from moving in because they caused the "natives" to move out?
wow, sure is easy to get whitey riled up.
How many died today in Iraq or now fort lewis won't have individual memorials because it takes too long and almost a daily event. Now they're having it once a month for a month's worth of dead soldiers.
I thought whitey's approach was to leave them alone and let them ruin themselves to the ground? now you're giving advice?
Best line from brochure (page 6): "If you are hesitant, and doubtful, remember you have been in darkness and slavery, and it is against your nature to think in terms of true political power and plenteous wealth... Your feeling is only natural to your historical slave mind."
Talk about preaching a victim mentality. I can understand the idea of it being preferable for local residents to own local businesses rather than big chains and conglomerates, and some of the brochure's suggestions for how to plan for opening a business (pay off debt, make a business plan, secure line of credit) are all well and good. But This guy took a perfectly good idea and went to the zoo. He's also apparently telling people that carrots cure cancer (page 21). I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
Seems like this might backfire: local stores go out of business, prime real estate gets gobbled up by large corporations/real estate developers= faster gentrification.
"your historical slave mind"
If that isn't racist then I don't know what is.
you all missed the best part (this was discussed before elsewhere) where he says that does his grocery shopping with Fresh Direct but his flock can catch a bus or subway to get their groceries -- outside of their neighborhood.Um, wasn't that the whole problem with Harlem before...not enough resources within the community. Not enough dollars and employment. Now that it's here let's go back to the good ole' days when "the man" held us down. I suspect his agenda is very selfish.
like these people will be able to go without the largest Foot Locker in the city? Eh ... supermarkets and books are overrated anyway.
Are you sure this isn't a hoax? This sounds absolutely preposterous.
Stan, sorry, but the argument that Harlem doesn't have "natives" is a little disengenious, even coming from you. That's like saying that Woodlawn isn't native to the Irish, Greenpoint to the Polish or Chinatown to the Chinese. People make their homes in like groups (particularly the minorities above who weren't wanted in any other places in the city), and traditionally in the 20th century, Harlem became home to blacks... because they really had nowhere else to go... especially after being pushed out of the Lincoln Center area... or Greenwich Village for that matter. (Look it up)
I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though. I understand where the Rev. is coming from, but starving the neighborhoods just reminds me of rioting in your own neighborhood. It only destroys the place where you live. Maybe strengthening the 'native' stores would be a better way to go?
Hmmm... forget trying to find opportunities and education for my people that will lift them out of economic oppression and let them lead lives of self-determination and fulfillment.
No! Let us throw down the gauntlet to the white capitalist masters... by patronizing their stores and thus lowering the rents in Harlem!
The Revolution will not be televised!
black-American residents of this city have nowhere else to go. We're not moving up the economic ladder and out of the city,
That's not entirely true. The Times did a piece last year about how many African Americans are leaving New York for other parts of the country. Reasons cited were lower cost of living elsewhere, more job opportunities elsewhere, lower crime rates, and because they had family in other parts of the country. It wasn't an entriely positive article. One single mother found that her kids still got into trouble and fell in with a gang.
This is madness!
This is HARLEM!!!
Stan is not an American, he immigrated here. He never set foot in Marcus garvey park.
He just follows the conservative line like any other brainwashed person. You know, the pull yourself up by your bootstraps, capitalism is King, Market forces will even things out, no affirmative action, etc etc.
Actually, my last comment about the neighborhood stores doesn't work, since the endgame of this proposal is to drive out the money so that current residents can afford to buy into the neighborhood.
Elderta,
Fascinating. Do you support people who burns crosses on the lawns of blacks who move into white neighborhoods? Would you be understanding of the "natives" then?
Why stop at boycotting stores??? Why not urinate everywhere and set fire to buildings at random??? That will show them!
"Stan is not an American, he immigrated here."
I am an american, because I am an american citizen. Duh.
Nope, you immigrated here.
you not american, you go back to where you came from.
don't care if you're a citizen, you immigrated here, you go back pronto.
citizen, smitizen, phooey.
Stan, your comment has nothing to do with what I wrote. Try the Free Republic. They will probably love you there.
haha :P
elderta,
Uh, why don't you put 2 and 2 together. Look, blacks worrying about getting pushed out by the rising real estate prices is akin to whites worrying about their property values going down when blacks move in. You can't justify one without justifying the other.
Harlem used to white, Bronx was italian, east New York was Jewish. Now they are black. So what if now it goes the other way a little? It's a natural flow.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but you are wrong about native communities in New York City. There are native communities in NYC, as their have always been.
And if you actually read my comment without that smirk in your soul, you would see that I said that I can understand where they are coming from, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. What part of "I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though" don't you understand?
Right, and if you actually read what I said... Again, the native community of Harlem used to be white. That changed back in the early 20th century. What's the big deal if it happens to change again in the early 21st?
"I will say that this proposal strikes me as odd, though" - that merely signifies that you disagree with the means, but not with the message. Imagine if the residents of Bay Ridge said "let's keep our neighborhood white", what would you say then? That you understand where they are "coming from"?
Sorry elderta, u lose.
@22 brilliant! lmfao
People in harlem need to realize that it is simply a question of WHEN not IF Harlem will be gentrified. It doesn't matter what they do. The current residents there will have to move out of nyc if they can't afford it. See #21
Win or lose... is that only what all of this is about? Nothing about humans, people? Hmm. No empathy, I guess, money trumps all.
Anyway, I just lost my original comment, but here goes... I can understand where both the Harlem and Bay Ridge communities are coming from, even if I don't agree with the tactics used by either. People who feel like they are losing their homes and neighbors and neighborhoods will do all kinds of things to keep them. Hence when I say "I can understand where they are coming from," I understand the pain of losing the familiar. I don't understand the burning crosses or the proposals to starve your community, but I do understand, why people want to keep their homes. I'm sorry if Stan or Z doesn't have the heart to understand that.
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even though you've won, you're still retarded.
I don't understand the obsession with race. That's what I don't understand. So some people move out, others move in. Big deal. It's been going on forever as provided in my examples.
Lol... Not as retarded as Rev. James Manning...
Unfortunately, after Harlem comes Wash. Height, and then Inwood... I have to start looking now... somewhere in Kansas maybe!
hr, that's so old. What's next? You are going to link us to the dancing baby? SOOO COOL!
It's not so old that you're not doing it, Stan. Seriously, the fact that you're constantly revisiting comments to eagerly rebutt all oncomers is pretty pathetic. It's Friday, it's nice out, you're clearly not working very hard, so just get outside.
Should have reached for the hangar when I had the chance.
I can manage my own time. But thanks!
It's "hanger". Should've reached for the dictionary.
It's easy to be ludicrous when you can just blame whitey if the plan fails.
uh... the period goes inside the quote marks... shoulda use Chicago... have a great weekend, Stan.
used... ;)
and have a great weekend all...
Aw, don't be mad cause you made a fool of yourself. Enjoy the weather!
what a fucking moron! where did this idiot get the phd next to his name? stupid ass u?? wow!
I find the article in the times that Blacks are leaving the city because the places they migrate to have lower crime rates hilarious cause as soon as the blacks move there the crime rate has risen. Black people want the businesses out of harlem cause if the neighborhood becomes gentrified then blacks can't live there. I think in ten years NYC will be completely gentrified and no blacks will live here cause they would have to take a bus an hour to manhattan to rob people
This idea is ridiculous and the more time we spend discussing it, the more credence we give it. Let's ignore it like I do when black people yell racist remarks to me in the ever increasing gentrified area of West Harlem. If we ignore this man and this idea, people will never know it existed.
One word sums this up: GARBAGE. I couldn't even make it past the second page. It would make an excellent Saturday Night Live skit.
exactly. "People always ask me how an economy in my neighborhood can exist if we boycott all the stores, and the answer is simple: Volume."
Great example of a "Dr" (ie. PhD) vs. a "Dr" (i.e. MD). Obviously this guy knows jack shit about science (based on his understanding of pork and carrots) and his "knowledge" is based on an interpretation of a 2000 year old myth. Harlem, do yourselves a favor and tell this hustler to go shit in his hat.
Here's the plan: Clear out Staten Island and offer it to whichever blacks want to move in. Prohibit anyone else from applying but blacks and let them run it via whatever political process they devise and call it a protectorate of the US. On the island, it's their way or the highway. Fund the hell out of it. Fix it up so that all the infrastructure is top-notch -- good transpo, social services, ample grocery stores, etc. Set up a system that ensures a living wage for everyone on the island. Create a couple universities on the island with top-notch professors (I am sure many would apply) and a few hospitals. Essentially provide every advantage and opportunity imaginable.
Then stand back and watch it go to shit anyway.
Yeah, lets do like #50 the Harlem resident said so that even Harlem can become like the rest of NYC and white men can spit on blacks and call them names when they go outside of their own neighborhood. Oh wait, the blacks won't have a neighborhood to go outside of. Hmmm, let's think on this one.
Right, Stan... I sounded mad and made a fool of myself? Well, I guess I would rather be 'mad' than a mad fool like yourself.
I live in that drought zone, and I kind of see where the old nutball is coming from. I'd be tempted to try it, except that I have half a brain and realize that the only people who could afford to use FreshDirect, and other online delivery services are the very people he's hoping to flush out. The rest would be dragging their groceries and shopping in from out of the zone, unable to afford delivery. As if they didn't already have a hard enough life?
No, there are other, much more subversive ways of doing things. In my neighborhood (West Harlem), we managed to get a Starbucks closed, and instead we now have our upscale café owned and run by people from this neighborhood, employing people from this neighborhood, and serving people from this neighborhood (besides the annoying gentrifiers). They're upscale only in that they're clean, attractive, modern places, but not upscale in their prices (except for their silly Odwalla fridge). An espesso only costs a dollar, for example.
That is the kind of improvement/gentrification I like to see. Unfortunately, since nobody owns their apartments in this part of town, those who are not rent-stabilized will suffer. And by those who are not rent-stabilized, I mean me. I pay a pretty fair rent, but will soon be priced out.
I'm just trying to stay long enough to enjoy the relative safety and civic pleasantness that took so long to arrive (when I moved here, I had to call the cops every day about the crackheads in our building, and step over passed out drunks, and avoid total crazies). I'd just like to soak it all in for a year before I start all over again!
Oh, and by the way, although this guy is saying he's for blacks, I don't think it's a black/white thing at the heart of it. (Read what he says about blacks with evil hearts). I think it's a total class thing. So we don't have to lower ourselves to the level of racist remarks here, do we? Honestly, sometimes I really wonder about some of the commenters here! Where do you come from, the racist ones? I really feel shocked sometimes. I mean, I admit to basic human vileness on a bad day, but not every day!