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People Wait For Tomorrow's UWS Apple Store Opening
Did you happen to read the NY Times City Section essay, Under the Scaffold, a No-Fight Club? The author Allan Ripp writes about a confrontation between some youngsters hanging out under the scaffolding of a building near Columbus Circle. Apparently the teens have been loitering around there regularly during the day, and one day, one of the kids gets shoved into Ripp's way while he's walking. Ripp decides to say something:
“You guys are always here, standing around, bumping into people and fooling around,” I scolded. “It’s not the place, and someone’s going to get hurt.” I’m certain I cursed as well.Man, anyone could have seen that coming last week! In the aftermath, Ripp talks about how he's "naturally drawn to conflict," his past brushes (chasing a purse snatcher), and admitting that he usually encounters petty Larry-David style confrontations. We can't decide if he's incredibly foolish to tempt confrontation or incredibly brave to try to stand up for himself.In an instant, I was surrounded by several of the boys, none of whom looked older than 15. The kid who shoved me just sneered while another told me to put my hands down and added a few choice insults. I looked more intently at the first one — he was slight and baby-faced, and I thought I might be able to engage him with a fatherly stare. I started to offer him a handshake to see if that would elicit an apology. He looked back with utter contempt, which was the last thing I saw before I was hit in the head.
We loved this part of Ripp's essay, though:
Later, when I spoke to some police officers near Columbus Circle, they were hardly encouraging. “Do you want to spend two hours talking with the detectives?” one of them challenged me. “Do you want to file a written report and description of the assault?” Since I couldn’t identify which kid had actually clocked me, there was little I could do. They invited me to call 911 if I spotted the suspects. “We’re not Columbo,” one officer said.
Photograph by seth_holladay on Flickr
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heh - love the police officer responses. No wonder 'crime' rate is so low - half the time, nothing is ever filed to track.
it seems the nytimes guy has his own issues...which may invalidate the whole thing
The worst part was that he let the cops talk him out of reporting it. Sure, crime is down - because cops spend most of their time trying to stop people from reporting crime.
I've noticed this trend recently. don't know if it's the new transplants or life long ny'ers.
It appears many want to fight at a drop of a hat. this never happened 10 years ago. people shun confrontation. but now they seek any reason to be arrogant and obnoxious to start a fight.
advise to those out there, always be ready. these nerds get beer muscles like you wouldn't believe.
know your battles, come armed.
More like "Dumbo".
This reeked of a hoax on the Times.
i got jumped by a bunch of these type of kids two years ago, about 10 of them. I did not fight back (this was only weeks after Nicole Dufrense got shot). It seems like these kids have nothing to loose, so I'd rather just walk away than risk getting seriously hurt - sucks, but what can you do? We need more Bernard Goetzes around. At most , these kids only get a slap on the wrist if arrested, someone needs to strike some real fear to these pieces of garbage
"...I’m a capable fighter"
Ripp's jaw would beg to differ. Anyone know how old this guy is? As was said, seems like he's always got something to prove, and in this case, was utterly humiliated by how his reality self was so contrary to his perceived fantasy self.
He had noticed these guys prior...noticed them causing trouble days/weeks before. So, why did he not just call his precient or local cop. The whole episode could have been avoided but I guess the good part is now Kelly will probably have his guys/gals be on the lookout for this. So, perhaps the authors misfortune did have some good.
police won't do shit, they know these kids will be right back on the streets
Yesterday, this small lady in her 20s yelled at these two big, drunk people on the subway for leaving their fast food bag on the train. I was surprised - why start something with people you don't know over a bag of trash. Let it go.
This is really prevalent in England. Poor kids from industrial towns wander the streets just looking for people who are alone to beat up. The government is trying to curb this "antisocial behavior".
The way to survive in New York is to avoid confrontation (especially when outnumbered 10-1) as much as humanly or morally possible. You fight to save your own life or someone else's life, otherwise, man, keep walking. And as the cop's response proves, the moral of this story is, it really isn't worth the trouble.
If you want to play father figure to all unruly youth you meet on the street, move to Mayberry or some other 1950's pudunk town, otherwise, unless they're beating someone up or mugging someone or something like that...keep walking.
nothing would please me more to read one day about these kids getting shot-up by a Michael Douglas "Falling Down" character
If we all, except felons and youths, carried concealed weapons everyone would be much more polite. A friend was jumped by 9 urban teenagers becasue he was Asian. I bet confrontations like this would happen less often if the law abiding citizens could answer barbarism with the only thing that barbarians understand: force.
I call the cops at the drop of a dime when I see trouble makers.
Just stand out of sight and describe events to 911 operator.
I'll avoid a confrontation but punks like that make me wish I was Chuck Norris and could surprise them with my Karate moves, 10 to 1 and they'd all get their asses kicked.
Running around acting foolish and getting into trouble was par for the course growing up in NYC but at least me and my friends knew right from wrong.
Will.xls, should I read "urban teenagers" as black teens?
I stopped carrying a knife years ago when I started to think that I was being too paranoid. Maybe I was wrong.
NYC Math:
One man acting like a cop, minus one uniform, gun, nightstick, and badge + a bunch of inner city bored ne'er do wells = man acting like cop popped in the head.
Victim or volunteer?
Acting crazy helps.
I remember being pissed at a cashier and I was mumbling to myself loudly all the way home.
That said, this city has changed. all the transplants think they're tough guys. rolling their hands into a fist, getting in your face because you brushed them lightly while getting a drink.
and, the writer better knock that chip off his shoulder. He's writing checks his body can't cash.
i wouldn't fault this guy for acting up - not enough people do that in this city, in fact...a lot of people would walk away if they saw someone being attacked. The only mistake this guy did was not having a gun
"He's writing checks his body can't cash."
great line...
Hey, Hanover Square.
I saw a hobo masturbaring in a box there last week.
""He's writing checks his body can't cash.""
Are you the same jackass who wrote this with respect to Nicole DuFresne?
I saw a few kids pushing around a mentally challenged dude on a subway platform. I'm a small woman and I was by myself. I told them to stop it and they did. They laughed at me and bitched, but they walked away and left the guy alone. Would they have been justified in turning their aggression toward me? Would you have blamed me if they had by saying I was "writing checks my body couldn't cash" by standing up for somebody vulnerable when nobody else was around to do so? Jesus. I hope the next time somebody gets in your face everybody just sits around and frigging watches.
To that end, I actually think women have more leverage in this arena in that tough guys generally won't go after a female. I can understand being more hesitant to interfere as a male.
to survive in this city unscathed you need to pick your battles.
so some kids were acting up, all kids do that.
It wouldn't surprise me if this guy is a closet racist. (but really, he's just a nerd, his next article will be about owning a gun, gun nerds geez)
Nope, I believe it was Hondo who said that to Maverick.
Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash.
I don't need to worry ma'am, I have Maverick as my wingman. You stay safe now, ma'am.
I Feel the need,
The need for speed.
What were the kids doing? Loitering? And one got shoved into Allan Ripp's way? Big deal. Why start a fight about that, that sounds like nothing.
eric c?
did you just write you're a small woman?
how is this guy a closet racist?, because he tried to stand up for himself? - jeeze, no wonder society is so quick in punishing victims and rewarding criminals
they punched him in the face - i hardly consider that loitering, they were looking to start a fight
They did not punch him until he engaged them. Before that one just got in his way. He shouldn't have been punched and I am all for speaking out when someone does something but you have to pick your battles.
There is nothing more frightening than a group of poorly parented, high testosterone, bored youths, loitering in public areas. When they have no accountability or any notion of consequence, any spark of confrontation or excuse to strike will end tragically for the victim.
I don't care if you're a champion MMO fighter, one quick skateboard strike to the head (wheels side down) and the victim will be lucky to wake up not brain damaged or dead. No good can come out of going head to head with one of the pack, when harming you is considered funny to them.
The only case I can see for confrontation is if you see them attacking someone else, then I would jump in the fight and pray others would help.
I don't think this battle was worth picking, but I also don't understand some of the people here bitching about "transplants." It's either, "back in the day, we natives solved all our problems with a Louisville Slugger," or "you take that 'sticking up for yourself' attitude back to your hick town" depending on what's convenient.
Which one is it?
Instead of that dude with the radical trachaeotomy, let's see some PSAs with the dude Bernie put in a wheelchair. "If I hadn't been a hoodlum then, I wouldn't be pissing in a bag today." These little knuckleheads don't remember that but they need to.
i remember when I was in high school, 4 kids I knew got into some confrontation with a late 40s, early 50s-aged guy.. they were pissing in a public park or something.
well, the story here is that the old guy single-handedly beat the fuck out of all of the kids. like one by one, i wish i could have seen it. "old man rage" became a regular phrase around school, and for the rest of year everyone was on their best behavior around older men (like coaches, teachers, etc).
so here's the question: where was the old man rage?? i spent a good 3 years of my life fearing its mysterious wrath, now i learn its only possessed by a select few...and i was so looking forward to the day I got it. shucks.
A quick comment.
If these young men are not apprehended they will be emboldened to commit more acts of violence.
If the cops would arrest them, then there would be the beginnings of a rap sheet. Eventually, the judicial guidelines for repeat offenders will catch up to these punks and they will serve real time.
I agree, we should also apprehend all the drunken fools who fight on Saturday night. Guys like these and their level of violence is only the beginning. Get their DNA, too. let that be a start to a nice long rap sheet the length of my arm. (I love that cliche)
Ripp's mistake was fairly obvious. He focused on the kid directly in front of him - offering a handshake, for Christ's sakes - and didn't notice the one off to the side that ended up hitting him.
I'm too lazy to add a link, but for a good laugh look under YouTube for "Turkish Rambo." Three men try to attack a man after some sort of traffic incident, and find out too late that he's an expert boxer.
If you talk trash to a bunch of punch-ass kids, You might get Ur ass whupped !
Agree with 35...
when confronted with a group do not allow yourself to be surrounded... Step back or to the side, don't allow yourself to be cornered, and keep your vision open, not centrally focused...
if you are jumped and want to fight back the best thing to do is open up the circle, keep people back from you and handle your defense or offense on a one on one basis... check youtube for "Mike Vallely Fight Jocks"
Does this tactic work with drunken yuppies with beer muscles? What if said yuppie has on a tan trench coat? of course, gotta have the native new york brooklyn born vinny in the group.
10 - it's a quality of life issue. It's not a matter of "starting something" - why should she have to ride surrounded by their trash - she's affecting how she wants her community to be. If no one seems to care, then things decline. The same way you avoid confrontation, so might they. It's easier to throw away the garbage than deal with this obviously crazy (or why else would she be speaking to us) lady.
Maybe more high schools should administer the Ephebic Oath; the principles stick with you:
I shall never bring disgrace to my city, nor shall I ever desert my comrades in the ranks; but I, both alone and with my many comrades, shall fight for the ideals and sacred things of the city.
I shall willingly pay heed to whoever renders judgment with wisdom and shall obey both the laws already established and whatever laws the people in their wisdom shall establish.
I, alone and with my comrades, shall resist anyone who destroys the laws or disobeys them.
I shall not leave my city any less but rather greater than I found it.
14: Your right, people would think twice before starting anything, everyone has as much power to kill someone as everyone else. Texas is right, Shoot the hell out of them.
My experience, animals ONLY know violence. To deal with them takes violence. I remember from HS, most of the school hated me when I was new, had 1 fight with a innocent guy (he was in the wrong place, wrong time) and I accused him of being involved with the problem-to-me group. I lost the fight, but after that, I never heard a word out of them, even some fake friendliness (I never engaged it), not to mention 1/2 the school thought of me positively from then on, establishing pecking order the monkey way I guess.
sorry, inadvertent bolding
This story goes to show that cops are pretty much worthless. Of course this is why one of my buddies carries around a derringer with shells that hold birdshot. He can shoot them and they can't trace the bullets to him. Funny thing is he used to be a federal agent.
The disturbing things here are the ghetto youths that go "wilding" throughout the streets of NYC and the inept police who don't ever want to do any actual work.
No wonder this city is truning to shit quick.
This man is an idiot, plain and simple. It seems, however, that he learned his lesson. The city is not the suburbs. Everyone's business is not your own. Unless these cats present a direct and personal threat to you, stay away.If you don't like it, move to Rockland or Westchester.
Yeah let the wilding ghetto youths rule the streets!
They should give an IQ test before you are allowed to have children, that would solve this whole problem.
Sounds like the guy was approaching retirement age... "fatherly stare"? Please.
I'm a female in my 30's. A couple of years ago I was walking down a side street on the Upper West Side and I saw a rather large man apparently roughing up his girlfriend (?) - she was crying and trying to get away. I walked up to within about 10 feet of them and said loudly that I was calling the police. The guy immediately took off.
Was it foolish of me to intervene? Perhaps, although it was neither at night nor in a "bad" neighborhood. Am I sorry I did it? Not at all. However, that's not the same thing as this guy apparently asking for trouble by going through a group of kids that he'd already had a bad feeling about.
When I first moved to NYC (in the pre-Giuliani early 90's, when the city wasn't as safe as it is now), a Guardian Angel came and gave a speech about safetly at my grad school dorm. He said one thing which I've never forgotten: "If you feel like you are in a dangerous situation or approaching an unsafe area, just trust your judgment and use a different route." That advice definitely could've applied here.
Last night I was riding my bike in SoHo (admittedly the worst night of the week to be out on a bike in Manhattan), minding my own business, when a group of black youths threw something at me as I rode by and hit my wheel. Naturally they were all laughing and having the time of their lives. I wasn't stupid enough to get off my bike and confront them, but I did stop and brandinshing my Kryptonite mini U-lock, yelled a lot of obcenities at them. All they did was laugh and yell back while walking away from me. The main reason I was upset for the rest of my ride was that I am NOT a racist, I have nothing against black people a priori and I have black friends and co-workers who I admire and respect. But I never get stuff thrown at me by unruly white kids. This is the third time this has happened to me in about two years and every time it's black kids prowling the town acting like assholes. I understand the socio-economic reasons behind their lack of development and I realize that people in other places behave the same way and it has nothing to do with their race. Some people are taught racism from an early age but for those of us who weren't and who are conscientious enough to know better, these acts have a truly damaging effect on the anti-racist sentiments we may be trying to maintain.
That happened to a friend of mine 20 years ago riding down the Bowery.
they hit him in the head with a two by four, thankfully he wore a helmut. These were hispanic kids.
He too, used his U-lock as a weapon and swung it at the guy.