Gothamist: NYPD Recruits Scrape By in an Expensive Metropolis

dimedance

Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:22:47 -0500

I don't like uniforms. I suppose it's because "authority" is granted to people who wear uniforms and, ultimately, a person who wears a uniform is someone who gets paid to follow orders without questioning them. Someone at the bottom of the pecking order who follows the orders of someone who's following someone else's orders, etc. When I'm not busy disliking people who wear uniforms, I try to force myself to pity them for sometimes putting their lives on the line for someone else's agenda. An agenda that they're frequently not qualified to understand. Have a nice day.

Joe

Fri, 18 May 2007 15:50:57 -0500

How anyone can say that pay is fair is beyond me. Go a few steps outside the city in ANY direction and your fellow officer is making about 75% more than you and most likely doing it in a much safer neighborhood. Anyone remeber the last time a nassau, suffolk, or westchester cop was murdered on the job?

den stop shooting innocents

Mon, 14 May 2007 12:49:35 -0500

Again, YOU chose to put yourself in this position. Stop whining and bitching when it was your own democratic choice to choose this profession. And, stop shooting at innocent people and being a dick. A little humanity would go a long way. A very long way. The public will remember the goodwill the same as the innocent shootings and brutality. Stop seeing everyone as a perp or bad guy. 35K starting is a very good starting pay. Do survey of starting pays and you'll see. don't get me started on the risk factor, you keep harping it enough, eventually the public will believe it.

FYI

Mon, 14 May 2007 12:27:00 -0500

To the myriad posters above: 1.) five resident – you are wrong there are residency rules Five boroughs and surrounding counties, no CT, no PA, no NJ 2.)oops4got -us vs. them seems you prove it goes both ways 3.) whatever - [$77,000, on average, after 6 years] recruitment propaganda, not exactly the case. 4.) though I agree that cars are luxuries, when you live on Staten Island, and the PD makes you work midnights the Bronx (you do not have a say in this) a vehicle becomes a little less of a luxury. 5. Cops pay into their own pension, and of overtime that they work, they pay a percentage into their pensions and see nothing of that amount in the end. And finally, one of the things I did not read in one post was the risk and responsibility involved in the job. 32k may seem ok to flip burgers or hawk jeans (which is a subsistence wage at best in nyc) but a police officer is asked to put their life on the line every day, for people they do not know, who “dance a jig whenever one [a cop] dies” and who belittle them and what they do. The majority of cops take their job seriously, do it with honor and protect and serve us 24 hours a day seven days a week. They can be ordered to come in early, stay late, change their hours and work any place in the city. All at the drop of a hat, and the PD doesn’t care if that means that schedules are screwed up, and there is no one available to pick up the kids from day care or that your brother is getting married and you are the best man and the tour change means you can’t make the wedding. Such concessions are not asked of very many people, form the employees of McDonald’s to Merrill Lynch to Department of Education. 35k to go to a house where three young children have been beaten, abused, and neglected. Or to collect evidence at a crime scene where there is brain matter on the sidewalk, or any of the thousands of other stressful and heart wrenching scenarios that cops have to deal with on a DAILY basis. 20 years of that is a lot for anyone, so a 20 year retirement does not exactly translate into some sweetheart deal…neither does subsidized health care, which is as mush as you can ask for people whose jobs are dangerous and who run the risk of suffering on the job injury greater then a paper cut, carpel tunnel syndrome, or eye strain from staring at a computer screen. To those who are vehement about their position that cops should not be paid more, I ask why you want these public servants compensated at such a low rate? I strikes me as counter intuitive to try to squeeze them as far as possible and then ask that they do a job most would not do for a six figure salary, while being angry that they are not doing this job to your satisfaction. Either you want top notch candidates at which point you compensate accordingly, or you settle for cut rate recruits for cut rate salaries- you decide.

four year hitch

Mon, 14 May 2007 02:27:44 -0500

Same if you just signed with the military service. Banks will loan you money easily, they know you have a steady income coming. Car loans are one of the easiest to get. Bill Mahar had an interesting comment on cops, his LAPD ones. Oh, 32K starting with all those benefits is nothing to complain about. Have a finance guy add up all those add on benefits to see the TRUE salary. That's how the private sector calculate salary analysis. Oh, it's more than 32k. unlimited sick days??? how much is that worth?

Still Not Amused

Mon, 14 May 2007 01:52:36 -0500

Well the fact that the NYPD hands out Credit Cards to it's rookie cops should indicate the obvious here .

huh

Sun, 13 May 2007 12:31:19 -0500

Ok - I just stop reading the article when once recruit complained about how hard it was to make his car payments while living in New York. Hello?? You live in the city - dump the car and take mass tranist dumbass! Also, banks will loan people money at a low interest rate to help them get by, given they expect your salary to increase dramatically within 5 years. Take out a low interest 10K loan, and then watch your spending!! People are so dumb and whiny...

Jebus

Sun, 13 May 2007 12:26:50 -0500

I've been living on less than 32K in Brooklyn for about 5 years now, and I'm pretty happy. Yet, according to pb, I'm poor and miserable. News to me. I also have crap insurance, no guarantee of increased pay in the immediate future, and no pension. But, I'll keep working hard instead of whining about how I deserve more, blah blah. 32K is more than a lovable wage, even in New York - you know how much free stuff there is to do in this city?? Also, maybe police officers should get paid more, but maybe they should also stop being such assh*les to me when I ride my bike to save money on subway fare. I know I'm all over the place here, but I'm sick and tired of hearing everyone blaming others for how crappy thier lives are. Get over it!

stop bitching!

Sun, 13 May 2007 01:28:01 -0500

Cops have to live in one of the five boroughs Hey retard! How many cops do you know actually live in the 5 boroughs??? There is no city residency rule! Stop whining about their salary for them, blame it on their union.

please

Sun, 13 May 2007 01:08:07 -0500

32k is fine in this city. most of the posters on here are just too spoiled to realize it. trust me, i have paid new york rent with it for 3 years. quit whining.

anonymass is rite

Sat, 12 May 2007 19:46:10 -0500

number twenty seven is right. we'll bump the salary up if you chip in the pension and health insurance costs. That's more than fair in this day and age. Consider a cop retires at age forty five or less, and get the pension for the next 35 years or so, that's more than fair.

anonymass

Sat, 12 May 2007 19:25:31 -0500

Hey, give up the retirement after 20 years on the force, the pension, the health benefits (for life, are they?), and then we can talk about a big bump in salary. I'm for all of that. Why civil servants deserve pensions in this day and age is beyond me. Nobody else is getting them. You can't have it both ways. Many cops work the 20 years, retire making 80, 90k, then take a second job when their pensions kick in where they easily make mid 6-figures between pension and the new job. Get rid of the pension and we'll pay you more now. How many cops would give that up though? Zero?

smitty

Sat, 12 May 2007 17:23:02 -0500

My first job out of NYU in 2004, I made $25,000 a year. I got bumped up to $35,000 after two years. Sad.

best blojd in the world

Sat, 12 May 2007 16:59:32 -0500

They just want you to believe they are underpaid. in fact, they have the best job in the world and they know it. just like candidates using fear and 9/11 to their advantage. (to sheep) That's why I dance a jig whenever one dies or has kharma handed to them. they don't kare about us, why should we kare about them? you want to know what they really think of YOU? You don't want to know. underpaid, my ass. I lost all respect for you samantha. You be careful, now.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 16:37:24 -0500

Samantha T, I couldn't agree more.

Samantha T

Sat, 12 May 2007 16:30:14 -0500

I'm with P.B. - $32K is crap in this city. The last time I made that salary was at least eight years ago, and that was for a very, very unchallenging job. As for the "college graduates have to buy uniforms, too" argument, well, that's just ridiculous. The main issue is how we compensate the people we are holding out as stewards of public safety. These men and women risk their lives to protect the public - there's not too many jobs that require that. "Those of us working as home health aides or in other health fields make less money with no pensions, no guaranteed job advancement, and our jobs are important to the running of New York, too." Yes, that's appalling, I agree. The solution is to agitate for more money for your profession, not to pooh-pooh the concerns of police officers who are also underpaid. Just because you're being subjected to worse conditions doesn't mean that police officers' conditions aren't bad. You should be standing in solidarity with other underpaid workers, not saying that it could be worse.

zs

Sat, 12 May 2007 15:33:46 -0500

As someone who IS living on minimum wage, and paying for a uniform, metrocard, and everything else, I'm sick of peple making such a big deal about police officers. Those of us working as home health aides or in other health fields make less money with no pensions, no guaranteed job advancement, and our jobs are important to the running of New York, too.

Still Not Amused

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:51:56 -0500

Well that's the reason you don't become a police officer in NY . They don't value there police force enough to pay them a living wage . The Fire Dept. gets what they want because the city values what they do more then the NYPD . It's just that simple, It's also the reason pretty much every police Dept. in the country visits the city to recruit new candidates . The latest was the Baltimore PD . That tells you something there, If the other PD's know they can steal NY's finest away from the city it's really bad !

oops 4got

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:48:12 -0500

and, it's not the public that's the problem here. It's their, us versus them mentality. I see this all the time, don't have friends with cops unless you're a cop.

so why r we hear

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:45:59 -0500

So, why the whining? if job growth is stagnant. shouldn't they be happy they have one of the last remaining jobs with great benefits and job security? I don't know about you but I don't know anyone with expense accounts, free lunches and free car service. 32K for the first year is still a great salary for anyone starting out.

soo why da whining

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:42:06 -0500

So, why the whining? don't tell me about stagnant job growth. They should be lucky they even have one of the last remaining jobs with such great benefits and job security. Again, GREAT. I don't know about you but I don't know anyone with expense accounts, free lunches, free livery car service. The cops will always have an Us vs. them mentality. It's not the public that's the problem.

whatever

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:33:25 -0500

This is from the NYPD's own website: www.nypd2.org/html/recruit/salary.html Quote: Police Academy (first six months): $25,100 (Annualized) Upon completion of six months: $32,700 Upon completion of 1 ½ years: $34,000 Upon completion of 2 ½ years: $38,000 Upon completion of 3 ½ years: $41,500 Upon completion of 4 ½ years: $44,100 Upon completion of 5 ½ years: $59,588 When including base salary, average overtime and night shift differential, holiday pay, and uniform allowance, a Police Officer earns over $35,000, on average, in the first year; $45,000, on average, in the second year; $77,000, on average, after 6 years

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:32:53 -0500

And I can also assure the poster above that many of the city's grads are not entering the workforce this week. They wish they were. Many cannot get work at all because, despite the rhetoric, there just aren't that many entry level jobs out there.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:30:08 -0500

I don't know what planet you live on, five resident, but 32K is below average wage in this country (around 40K) so it's hardly excellent (it's also NOT the starting salary which is closer to 26K). Also, the longer you have lived in NYC, the cheaper your rent/mortgage is likely to be, and thus the further your wage stretches. I applaud what you were able to do but many cannot--not because of greed or frivolity but because of the basic cost of living, particularly rent. We have wage stagnation in this country and an escalating gap between rich and poor, erosion of the middle classes, etc. I do not support that and cannot condone paying people badly. It does lead to crime, depression and social atomization. I suspect many posters think 32K is OK because they dealt/deal with it or feel that their taxes are too high to start with and don't see why they should pay for public servants who they see as freeloaders off their income. Instead, think about the bottom line--your income is stagnant and the very rich evade their taxes putting the burden onto us. I still maintain, having done it myself, that 32K is not a good wage in NYC, barely a living one because of rents primarily. If its an entree into a very well paid profession, then of course it is worthwhile, but NYPD is likely not going to make anyone rich. As for private sector benefits--expense accounts, free lunches, company cars, free travel, golden handshakes and annual bonuses--these are things the public sector employee never sees. Maybe we should think about these instead--they push salaries up way over the costs of health insurance and pensions, which private sector employees also get. Nobody seems to complain here about any of these--and they are also paid for by the public and passed off to us as part of the costs of doing business. I'm not a police apologist--I just believe in a living wage for people who work hard.

five resident

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:10:46 -0500

correct me if I'm wrong but there is NO five borough residency rule for NYPD. they can live anywhere except, NJ, PA and CT. they live all over NY state and are allowed to. Nassau, suffolk, orange, rockland, westchester, putnam, dutchess. 32K per year is a very good starting salary anyway you cut it, unless you are paris hilton. I cannot believe how elitist some people are in this city. I survived on much less than 32k and so did my family. you can applaud till you're blue in the face.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:01:41 -0500

I think you are really shortsighted OB. Cops have to live in one of the five boroughs and as a rented in an outer borough I can tell you that you can't do it easily on 32K. If you move out, then you aren't supposed to do the job (conditions include living in NYC). Excellent is hardly a word you can reasonably use for 32K, bus pass and health care or not. Minimum wage is also appalling and a joke (a cruel one) and no reason to make 32K seem great in NYC. College grads have to pay for a uniform too (I am well aware of this as I am one) but you can do it cheaper and you will likely earn more over time. I really cannot believe how people can think that 32K is a living wage in NYC. I'd love to see you all try it--I know I couldn't do it and I applaud those who make the sacrifices for ALL of our safety.

that's life

Sat, 12 May 2007 14:01:02 -0500

Why does everyone focus on the starting salary? Unless you go to an investment bank right out of college there aren't too many jobs in NYC with a decent starting salary. Police officers get overtime. And within a few years most of them are earning a very confortable living. blame the union for part of the problem with starting salaries. They signed off on it because they wanted all of the pay increase to go to the veterans. If someone came up with an extra $100,000,000 million tomorrow I can virtually guarantee that the union would negotiate to give it to the senior officers. Plus, the cops are not required to live in the city.

uniform of the day

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:42:25 -0500

guess what, PB, many of the new college grads this week entering the work environment have to pay for a new wardrobe. same thing, different uniform.

outer boroughs

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:38:49 -0500

we could argue this all day and night. and bring in Heather MacDonald while we are at it. but the fact remains, 32k is not a bad salary and with all those benefits it's close to excellent. Holiday pay, sick pay, disability pay, pension, health insurance, free public transit. Isn't the mantra on gothamist is, if you can't afford an apartment, Move? well, there are affordable apartments outside Manhattan. The salary is Hardly appalling, appalling is Minimum wage at $7.15 an hour, which they are not making. Minimum wage is $286 for a 40hr week before taxes. That's $14,872 a year. Many people in NYC still make minimum wage. They don't have time to post on Gothamist because they are making minimum wage.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:35:41 -0500

Two extra points--the masters in question was in forensic psychology suggesting an interest in the police force. And for those of you who begrude their pensions, trainee cops have to pay for their uniforms, guns, etc. out of their paultry wages.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:29:27 -0500

I can't believe the last two comments. First, the cops aren't all community college types (whatever that is) and if they were, they could earn more in private security, office work or even the MTA. Also, you can't use your health insurance payments to pay rent. Bottom line, 32K may be OK in Idaho but you cannot live in the five boroughs on it if you have to pay rent. And, Danii, you seem to be unaware or don't care that this kind of salary erosion is endemic in this culture and that many people's salaries are dormant or declining. I suppose you'll only care if and when it affects you. Besides, there are many more barely educated people out there making the big bucks than the ones with a real education (contacts mean more than degrees today), but that's another story.

CFO bookie

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:15:24 -0500

exactly, people don't seem to want to see the big picture. You add in all the benefits, your salary is much much more. from night differentials to free public transit. It all adds up to much much more.

Daniil

Sat, 12 May 2007 13:09:45 -0500

WHen you add up all the benefits the salary is well over 50k. The kind of insurance you get and assured increases make this job a walk in the park. WHats the alternative for barely educated lower middle class young people? Burger King? McDOnalds? working in a mall? Taking care of old people or the mentally disabled? NYPD is by far the best choice for the kind of people that it targets, face it NYPD officers are not graduates of Harvard and Yale. They are community college material people and they get more than they would get elsewhere in NYPD.

DaveH

Sat, 12 May 2007 12:31:35 -0500

I'll second your comments pb. The point of the Times article, I believe, was to highlight the fact that many NYPD recruits could do better professionaly elsewhere, but choose to endure short-term hardship because they love NYC and they want to be NY police. We're not averse to dishing it out when the cops deserve criticism, but we'll also recognize the men and women who subsist on baloney and cheese to serve the city we live in.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 12:22:55 -0500

These salaries are appalling. As for the poster above, you aren't considering the rents in this city (and I mean all five boroughs). 32K is shabby when a landlord wants $1,000 or so a month, less for a share, more for your own place--and that's all out of after tax income. Basically 32K hardly leaves you anything to pay for bills and food after rent. I for one am sick of those in private industry on big salaries moaning about the one perk left in the public sector--a pension. If people chose to trade off a rich working life for some security in retirement, that's their affair. Do you want retired public service workers living on the breadline--they can't invest in the real estate and hedge funds open to the rich? And as for health insurance, I didn't think that the private sector had abolished that. Why shouldn't people who chose to work for the public, for the benefit of all of us, have a decent and comfortable (ie not rich but not struggling) income? Why should only selfish people reap all the rewards in this culture? We can't all work in finance or law either--there aren't enough jobs and society would collapse without teachers, police, firemen, nurses etc--i.e. all those people who take care of the emergencies in our life and educate the public.

pb

Sat, 12 May 2007 12:20:35 -0500

pay now and eat later

Sat, 12 May 2007 12:09:28 -0500

boohoo. And thanks to gothamist to be one of the few places that mention the STARTING pay is 26k and upon graduation, you get it bumped up to 32k. Not too shabby. but then there's this, Minimum wage in NYC as of Jan 2007 is $7.15 per hour. are you telling me they are getting 7.15 and hour. that does not add up. 7.15 per hour X 40 hrs = $286 a week, X26 weeks = $7436, HARDLY MINIMUM WAGE. tell me what the majority of the recruits were making before signing up? that's what I want to know. what job nowadays has a full pension? and health insurance.

Tom

Sat, 12 May 2007 12:03:35 -0500

If you have a Master's Degree, why in the world would you be working as a police officer? Unless it's in something like.... history.