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Residential parking permits in Long Island City and Brooklyn Heights? Park and Ride areas near train stations? Eliminating government parking placards? The NY Sun has a look a what the Bloomberg administration is considering to "sweeten" the congestion pricing proposal as it works to gain support for the plan (it's up for consideration in 6 weeks) and it includes all of the above. Reporter Annie Karni writes:
Residential parking permits could be established in Brooklyn Heights, Upper Manhattan, Long Island City, and other neighborhoods surrounding Manhattan's central business district — a concession to those communities that would discourage drivers from approaching the edges of tolled Manhattan and clogging up their streets to avoid paying the $8 congestion fee.Car owners, what do you think? And in a move that almost sounds like a response to government parking abuse website Uncivil Servants, the city is also allegedly looking at parking placard abuse. As for Park and Ride's, our guess is that these would be in the outer boroughs, though it would be funny to see the city buying space in Manhattan for parking facilities.The city in the past has opposed residential parking permits on the basis that visitors would be unable to find parking. Permit parking has been used for years in cities such as Boston and Washington. In those cities, cars without permits can park for two hours or less.
The Partnership for New York City released a survey that finds "That Lack Of Access To Mass Transit Is Not the Reason That Most New Yorkers Drive."
The poll, which was conducted between March 12 and April 4, 2007, found that just 17 percent of drivers take their cars into Manhattan’s CBDs because of inaccessible or inconvenient mass transit options.Give the F an express train maybe?Additionally, only 10 percent of drivers say that they avoid mass transit because it is too slow. In a clear indication that saving time is not a primary reason for driving, 61 percent of drivers say that mass transit would be as fast or faster than driving. That view is shared by 66 percent of drivers from both Queens and Brooklyn.
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There's a Congestion Pricing Meeting tomorrow night @ 7PM in Sunnyside.
Sunnyside Reformed Church
48-03 Skillman Ave (at 48th Street)
7 Train to 46th Ave/Bliss St
Tuesday May 8th
7p – 8:30p
"The city in the past has opposed residential parking permits on the basis that visitors would be unable to find parking."
SO WHAT? Does NYC really depend on it's visitors who drive in to visit? I don't think so.
Furthermore, resident parking permits (for the whole city please!) will stop people from engaging in insurance fraud by registering their vehicle out of state to get a lower insurance rate!
Beat me to it, Reality Czech.
Residential parking should have come to BH and other nabes years ago... YEARS ago. Iris Weinstall opposed it because she was worried about the tourists. Never mind that people live in the nabe and pay her salary, and never mind that there are tour buses coming through BH on a minute-by-minute basis. Just another example of the administration's misplaced priorities and Weinstall's incompetence.
I think all of the moves Bloomberg is considering have merit, particularly the park and rides at subway stations so folks not near the subways in the boros could get to the train easier. The sooner they pass congestion pricing, the better.
This works just fine in Boston neighborhoods. Why not in NYC? The passes (about $20/annually) also generate some money.
I'm not sure they're referring to "visitors" as people from out of state who come in and decide to park. I think they're really talking about commuters. If so, commuters certainly are a significant part of the city.
It seems to me that they haven't looked at the reasons why people are driving rather than taking mass transit. Sure, subways are fine during rush hour. But after hours, starting after 7pm, they're horrible. Traveling after hours easily adds an extra 15 minutes to the commute (at least on the N), and that doesn't account for transfers. After a long day's work, I don't look forward to taking an even longer train, then stopping at the store to buy dinner, and then walking the 1/2 mile home. It's just not convenient.
That's sometimes why I drive (from Brooklyn). Other times, I drive in because I know I'm going to be doing something in Manhattan after work--dinner, theatre, shopping, etc. And taking the train even later at night is not a reasonable option. And driving and parking in a lot is 1/2 the cost of taking a cab home, thanks to the recent fare hike.
Want people to stop driving? Invent teleportation.
i think it is a awesome idea to mitigate some of the negative affects in surrounding neighborhoods and get those people on board for congestion pricing.
better yet, i think people should be charge for entering the city, like an additional $4. So long islanders will paying $12 to drive to jobs in manhattan and $4 for jobs elsewhere in the city.
Residential Parking does NOT work!!
Have any of you ever lived with it?
I have. It sucks. Suddenly you can't take your car anywhere!
Oh, and about charging commuters to enter the city: we already pay if we go through any of the tunnels or over the Verrazano Bridge (GWB, too?). Why should we have to pay twice? Do we not pay enough already?
I say, add tolls to the East Side bridges. That'll stop a lot of people from driving. Not enough to solve the problem, but it'll help.
So will enforcing the no double-parking laws. And ticketing those who block the box. And adding pedestrian walkways over major intersections like they did in Vegas. It's tacky, but efficient.
You won't pay twice. The city will subtract tolls from the congestion fee, so you won't pay $8 plus the Verrazano bridge toll. You'll pay one price and it won't be more than $8. The idea is to charge people who are currently coming into the city for free to encourage them to take public transportation. It might also help avoid the phenomenon of trucks using the free bridges to cut across Manhattan.
As long as you pay NYC taxes you should be able to legally park your car on the street anywhere you want and not need a neighborhood-specific permit.
#7, what do you mean by "you can't take your car anywhere"?
Wouldn't the resident permit parking kill restaurants and other businesses in these neighborhoods? By tourists, I don't think they're talking about people visitng from far away, I think they mean people like me who might want to drive to Smith Street for dinner. East Side tolls sounds like a better idea to me.
#10... absolutely. i think they should leave well enough alone, myself. The prices of gas along with removing the placards from city employees would clean up most of the traffic... plus if you ever look out your window or bike throug the city, you will find most of the vehicles driving thought the streets are cabs and they are exempt as well as delivery and commercial trucks which will have to come into the city anyway... do we really need to another city tax, like there we aren't the #1 taxed people in the country?!
I lived with Residential Parking Stickers in Jersey City for over 5 years. I believe it can work and am all for it in Brooklyn Heights where I live now. With the courthouses and Metrotech you do have an influx of commuters taking spots from residents of the neighborhood.
if the reason drivers opt to not take public transportation is because public transport is slow, that is understandable. Relying solely on the subway and buses is not particularly fun. After hours it is terrible.
However, the proposed congestion pricing is an attempt to raise funds for public transport. it is not like the city is pocketing this money and putting into a general fund for expenses. It was said by Bloomberg that it would explicitly be used to improve public transport, no? So the only way to improve the subways and buses is to to put more money into them more efficiently. The suggestion of reopening the F express track would be a step in the right direction. also, I think closing the subway, for even 2-3 hours per night and replacing it with night buses that follow the same route above ground would also help alleviate delays throughout the day caused by faulty signals and under construction areas.
but I'm no expert, just a commuter who is annoyed with the fact that everyday the F stops outside the smith/9th station because "there is a G train ahead of us" get with it MTA, time to improve, and if that means charging drivers to help defray the costs, I'm all for it.
14... i lived in jersey city and it was a royal PIA. also, this would kill restaurants and businesses in those areas because unlike Manhattan, people are far more likely to drive to points within the borough because doing otherwise would turn a 15 minute into a nightmare.
M, if you believe this tax revenue won't go to other things in the future when we aren't sitting in surplus (which is 99% of the time) you are extremely naive. the city has plenty of money to work, they don't need another excuse to put their fingers in our pocket.
In BH, we do have a tourist issue, seperate from folks who drive to the courthouses and such. People drive in to go to the Promenade and after taking whatever legal spots are available, they park in fire lanes, park on sidewalks, double-park, etc. So there's a double-whammy there, commuters to the courts and tourists.
Tourists can/should use the tour buses, and there should be some parking establised for court employees/jurors/etc to use. That's what resident permits would set in motion, and I'm all for it.
Having said that, I would think that any plan for congestion pricing would have to include an after-hours upgrade to the subway. Also bear in mind that the congestion pricing would only be in effect during peak hours, I'm guessing that would mean that it would lift at 7, so if you want to use your car to go out at night, you probably could.
And driving to Smith Street wouldn't be affected since a) Smith Street isn't in BH, and b) commercial zones like Smith Street and Montague Street probably would not be zoned resident-only. It would probably be limited to residential streets like Hicks, Pierrepont, Clark, and the fruit streets.
Permits are intense in London. Lots of tickets written. But mom can always get a space.
How about a compromise. No parking on NYC streets unless you have NYS plates. Why should residents of NY have to compete with NJ PA CT and beyond for a parking space. Really annoying to pass a block full of cars from other states knowing half do live here and the other half could have taken the train or paid a premium for driving.
1. cuts down insurance fraud
2. I'm sure I can't just park on any old street I want to in Greenwich or Montclair
also, in boston the major commercial streets had meters on them instead of residential parking, so if someone is driving to bh for dinner, they will probably be there after 7pm, when the meters aren't in effect.
it was annoying before i had a permit when i lived in boston, but once i had it, it was great. i could actually park on my street! without driving in circles for hours! amazing. and ditto a previous comment about people who live in the city but still have their car registered from their hometown. i know tons of people who do that and it annoys the hell out of me.
what do you mean by "you can't take your car anywhere"?
IMHO, what dev meant by this statement was that residential parking permits make it very difficult for people to travel within their locality.
I lived in the Paulus Hook section of Jersey City, a place where residential parking permits have been in effect for many years. If you wanted to go to a shop or restaurant in another part of Jersey City, or in neighboring Hoboken that did not have any/adequate private parking of its own, you were screwed. You could not find a legal parking spot on the street, and unlike Manhattan, there are few private parking lots even for those willing to pay. This made me a lot less likely to patronize these businesses -- it was a lot easier to go into Manhattan, either by public transport on weekdays, or by car at other times (since you knew that there would always be somewhere to park, albeit at a price).
Extend this to Queens, as an example. Let's say that you live in Fresh Meadows, and want to go to a restaurant or store on Northern Boulevard in Jackson Heights. The public transportation options are pretty unreasonable; even during peak operating hours, it might take 75-90 minutes by public transportation each way, while the drive is about 15 minutes. When you drive to Jackson Heights, you have to cruise around for a parking spot for a while; there are meters on the main streets (like Northern), but the side streets are residential and only metered near the corners. There are no pay parking lots anywhere. It takes 5-10 minutes, but you do eventually find a spot. With residential parking permits, cruising the side streets for a spot is no longer an option. You are stuck competing for one of the few metered spots, and there were never enough of those to begin with. What are you going to do? You will likely think twice about Jackson Heights as a destination for shopping or dining. It's a lot less effort to simply go into Manhattan, since public transportation is already optimized towards bringing large numbers of people into the city. And if you drive, your know you can always find somewhere to park, albeit at a price.
17, you're right, it has much to do with the surplus, but the overlying point I'm trying to make is that the tax dollars are going to improve, ideally, where we live. This is a big city with a lot of needs. where do we expect the money to come from? I'd rather see it get taken out of drivers pockets than people who use the already decrepit public transportion.
21 - fair points, but the flipside to that is you can drive around for up to an hour in BH looking for a spot.
It would not work everywhere, but where the nabe cries out for it, it should not be dismissed solely because the tourists would object.
Brooklyn Heights is a residential area. ticket all the nine to five workers who drive in and park in BH. Brooklyn heights is relatively quiet compared to flushing where it's definately a major commercial district. Besides, many businesses in Flushing has a parking lot and restaurants have valet parking.
Unlike Brooklyn Heights.
How can the Bloomberg guarantee that drivers won't just clog streets in the next neighborhood over from those with parking permits? Already it is more popular to park in Sunnyside than in Long Island City and then hop on the 7 into Manhattan. Or what about those parking in Flushing at Shea Stadium and then going into the City? I wonder if this proposal will also alleviate the existing problems that promote driving in the first place. Such as more Metro North trains, more LIRR trains, and a speedier subway.
Residential parking can work. There just needs to be hours when and when it's enforced, such as midnight - 6AM or something.
As for commuters who feel the need to wake up at 5AM and drive there vehicle into Manhattan with only themselves as the sole occupant, well they need to try and get rid of this. Plenty of people do it. Just go to midtown and watch how many driver-only occupied vehicles there are driving into parking garages which are usually paid for by their company. Disgusting!
So let's have residential parking, congestion pricing and perhaps even some HOV lanes!
I give this plan an A. I hope it passes. Parking permits work in other cities, so I think that New Yorkers will adapt. We are complainers by nature, though, so the debates should be lively.
I understand that some people may need to drive into the city at night, but there is little rational for driving to work in Manhattan from Brooklyn or Queens. (OK, I admit that people with disabilities need their cars.)
Many of the people who avoid the trains during the day could probably use some exercise. Someone should do a study on driving habits and heart disease. DOH? Most of the people who have been interviewed outside of toll booths by news outlets have been pretty plump. Is there a correlation between chubbiness and angst over decongestion pricing? (No, I have nothing against the plump, but this is NYC--the land where donut eaters are publicly shamed.)
People, this is NYC, not Kansas. Our public transportation is amazing. Stop polluting my streets.
In addition, something has to be done to stop trucks from racing through Manhattan on the way to the outer boroughs. More than a few people have been mowed down by trucks in my neighborhood. The drivers who killed pedestrians were never charged. Unbelievable.
I have faith in this proposal. We got rid of the smokers (ok, they are still here, but they are huddled in the alley), and we shunned the trans-fatties (the gluttons think twice about eating that donut). It is only natural that we should empty the pockets of those who insist on clogging our streets.
Please, do not take offense, I am just being humorous.
"It seems to me that they haven't looked at the reasons why people are driving rather than taking mass transit. Sure, subways are fine during rush hour. But after hours, starting after 7pm, they're horrible. "
This is true in many n'hoods, I'll concede, but absolutely not in Brooklyn Heights. I live in BH and it's easily the most convenient n'hood I've lived in in NYC - including where I've lived in Manhattan.
Bloomberg's plan is nothing more than a tax so the wealthy can drive in less congested conditions. $8 now, but it will go up, QUICKLY! London's not working now - despite the press quotes, ask someone who lives there now. The congestion is self regulating... only those who have to deal with driving in in the day. IT IS JUST A TAX. Bloomberg has more than doubled our real estate taxes, allowed unfettered ugly development, anything that will increase the coffers - he's promoting. You know what? That's not what good government is all about! LOBBY AGAINST CONGESTION PRICING!