Gothamist: Mayor Bloomberg Says Congestion Pricing And Likes It

BernGrush

Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:54:39 -0500

I study population attitudes to congestion pricing. The balance of debate, here, far outstripped anything I have seen in the UK. It may be premature, but New Yorkers in 2007 do not at all look like the grousing Londoners of 2002 (or 2007, for that matter). Bravo for New Yorkers. I placed a full post at grushhour.com called Unlocking Gridlock In New York.

Ed

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:35:03 -0500

My take on this is that the concept is excellent, but when I read the details of the proposal, it looks like they want to do this in the worst way possible. Which is typical of this mayorality. On the concept, you have to ask who benefits and who loses. There are two groups of people who benefit. The first are people who live in Manhattan, who gain nothing from increased traffic but more car exhaust, increased chance of being hit by a SUV, more noise, and more difficulty in getting around. The second are commuters who drive into Manhattan, and who hate sitting in traffic. Imagine if your car had a device that could teleport other cars and drivers back to their driveways, so you would have less traffic to deal with. I think there are drivers who would gladly pay $8 per trip for something like this, but until the technology exists, having the government regulate congestion is the second best alternative. The people who lose are people who like driving to Manhattan and enjoy sitting in traffic, or don't mind it badly enough to want to pay $8 per trip to avoid it. The way things are now, all the costs generated by this group (noise, pollution, and congestion) are paid for by Manhattan residents and other drivers who might want to pay extra for a shorter journey. I don't know why this is a good thing. The problem with the details is that the proposal is too limited, since it only covers Manhattan south of 86th Street, for 60 hours a week. You already have commuters to get to work super early to avoid traffic. You will now get commuters who drive into the city at 5 AM to avoid the charge, and/ or wait until after 6 PM to leave. The proposal will also shift traffic to the outer boroughs. This also guarantees that people living in the outer boroughs will oppose this. To really do it right, the charge has to be for the entire city, for all hours. The other thing that bothers me is that to get to Manhattan, and even to get to much of the rest of the city, you have to cross a bridge or go through a tunnel. Why not just raise tolls or implement tolls on the bridges and tunnels? That would be easier to implement.

adam Nunes

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:15:52 -0500

as far as people driving to brooklyn, queens, and bronx to park, then taking the subway as a reason not to do this: 1) they already do it to save money on parking, and 2) just more reason to implement a zoned parking system in the manhattan and the outer bouroughs (at least those parts that would benefit). This would also take care of the people whose cars are registered out of state to save on insurance.

Rob

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:29:30 -0500

Good first step, next we need a parking registration system. Simply put if you want to own a car anywhere within NYC you need to have a place to PUT that car. It works in Tokyo and it would work here, I'm sick of meeting people who just "park in front of the hydrant and send the tickets to my lawyer" every night! Also car free central/prospect/flushing meadows park, REAL Bus Rapid Transit, and ultimately decking over/removing/tunneling as many of Moses' Moats as we can. Let's start with the BQE/Astoria BLVD Through Queens. And while were in Queens how about sorting out Queens Plaza, and running a trolly over the QBB again.

Tubulus

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:17:11 -0500

Well, there goes the gentrification of Spanish Harlem! Sorry Morningside Heights!

ah ah, oh, ooooooooh

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:15:09 -0500

so while i'm jerking off, haha, and you are such a damn smarty pants, why don't you enlighten us on the "the unintended consequences" instead of being all snarky? yes, there are plenty of sonsequences to consider, but congestion pricing needs to be followed through in one form or another. many wrinkles can be worked out as we go along.

John

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:58:28 -0500

$21 a day -> $21x5 = $105 a week. That's less than 1 parking ticket!

haha

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:41:10 -0500

everyone is having a jerk-fest here... too bad this wont happen. on the other hand i guess we can avoid all the unintended consequences no one has probably thought about yet, so its probably a good thing.

jon

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:32:35 -0500

Chris O - Exactly. The only people I know who drive to work are either wealthy or stupid. There are so many benefits to this - less polution, less gasoline consumption, less honking, quicker taxi rides, more income for taxi drivers...the list goes on.

ao

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:21:30 -0500

do something about the trucks that double park. that will help the traffic.

No Reason Not to!

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:11:46 -0500

LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT!

non-driver

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:10:02 -0500

How about a bit of a compromise: During the hours between 6am and 6pm, there should no metered parking. Would that work?

Patrick

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:06:35 -0500

Can public transportation stand up to the increase in people riding the subway and buses? I think not. Their past record indicates that the congestion will move from the streets to the underground.

Chris O

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:02:42 -0500

I don't see how politicians from the outer boroughs can call this a "tax on the poor." If you live in the Bronx or Queens and drive to Lower Manhattan every day, you can spend $4 round trip on mass transit (or even less when using a monthly Metrocard) or you can drive and use three gallons of gas, which is nearly $9 in the city. By using mass transit, you are (a) taking a car off the road, (b) doing your part to reduce air pollution, and (c) saving $5 a day. This isn't a "tax on the poor." This is a "tax on the stupid."

Chris O

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:01:08 -0500

Tim N.

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:21:07 -0500

u: That's actually a great point. The Daily News had another interesting wrinkle: if you are a city resident, you get five freebees a year, so if you've got to take the kid to school or it's an emergency, you can get by. I'd also love to see some sort of free/cheap parking system set up at some of the larger subway stations in Queens and the Bronx. When I lived on City Island I used to drive to the #5 train, it was a bit of a pain finding parking. If this could be improved, it would help sell the plan to the non-rich of the outer boros.

b

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:07:56 -0500

it works in London and Singapore, why not NYC? anything to reduce smog is great for new yorkers, even at the expense of commuters

u

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:04:16 -0500

And for anyone who simply has to drive, think of it this way: for as little as $8 a day, you'll get a faster ride in and out of midtown!

dave

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:01:58 -0500

i think this has about as much a chance of happening as being struck 100 times by lightning. Bloomberg backed off of this in his first term because it is a complete loser, but he came back and will throw continue to throw out lots of pie in the sky ideas for his legacy since he is term limited and not politically at risk.

dis iz good

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:55:25 -0500

Hey, this may even encourage people to car pool. and, SP is correct, the working people of Queens don't drive into the city. They take the bus to the train, even since they eliminate the 2 fare system, people have been taking advantage of it. Remember after 9/11 how many people carpooled into the city?

Reality Czech

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:53:10 -0500

I believe it would work. I do not think many commuters can not afford to pay this $8 fee. Actually, I think it should be higher liek about $12 or $15. As for suburban commuters parking in the outer boroughs, I don't see this happening. Most of those suburbanites are afraid of the outer boroughs, anyway, many places the street cleaning rules wouldn't allow for it. I don't think that $21 for trucks is fair. Thise people are doing their job and making deliveries when the stores are open. It is quite different than a suburban commuter who drives for the sake of convenience. I think trucks should be priced less than cars. I still don't see how they are going to enforce this though. Camera's that read license plates? EZ pass? There are just too many ways to get into NYC. They should put tolls on all the bridges! Then they can just patrol the northern entrances, which shouldn't be too hard.

Murray Hillster

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:51:34 -0500

"Trucks would be charged $21!" It was a little unclear in the report, but it appears that trucks that remain in the charging area only pay $5.50. The $21 is for trucks going back and forth.

sammi

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:48:32 -0500

K, that is great for you, but your personal anecdote does not mean everyone is going to do that. people will continue to find convenience in using their car whether is for not having to be tied to long waits and schedule issues on the rails, the costs, the fact they still need to drive to a station and park anyway, the waits at each leg of the trip, etc. If they didn't we wouldn't have the traffic we have now, its that simple. IMO, all this is going to do is bring a lot more congestion into my neighborhood and make the already crowded subway ride even more fun every day.

driver

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:48:04 -0500

I think that this would be a great plan to implement, although city employees may be the most resistant to it as they get free parking in Manhattan. Deliveries don't necessarily need to pay the fee - it only applies from 6AM to 6PM, so if the deliveries are made overnight or early morning it is no fee, plus it is quicker as there is even less traffic on the streets at 4AM.

adam

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:36:19 -0500

i don't get the rhetoric on it pitting parts of the city against each other -- i live in brooklyn and don't understand why I would be against this. also, how is this a tax on working people? if they drive through the city, they can go around. if they drive into the city, they already pay a boatload to park - this would just be a small increase.

K

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0500

Sammy: i realize on one of the few, but i actually own a car, pay monthly payments on the car, plus insurance...however, i also pay $250 a month for a monthly train pass, and $76 for the metrocard to get to work every morning. I absolutely abhor driving in traffic every morning to get to work...although its easier to drive, my sanity has been kept in check because i do not have to sit in traffic for hours on end. Also, with gas prices the way they are, plus tolls, the cost of my commute is roughly equal to what i pay for mass transit.

sammy

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:29:59 -0500

I am on the fence on this one, but the "inconvenient truth" about this scheme is that commuters from outside Manhattan will more than likely drive into the boroughs and park there increasing traffic and pollution in the streets of those areas, effectively exporting it from Manhattan. The reason i say this is suburban commuters who have to own a car to survive will not then go and pay hundreds of bucks a month for a monthly train ticket in addition to their car payments, insurance, etc. they will drive into Brooklyn, Queens or the Bronx and then take a subway from there, making transit more crowded for those residents as well, while Manhattan become a playground for wealthy folks to zoom around in unencumbered.

Tim N.

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:29:24 -0500

I love it, too. It could even turn me around on ol' Mayor Bling, assuming he can sell it and assuming the revenue would go to improving mass transit. Personally, I would exempt commercial vehicles from the fee (since part of the reason things are so damn high in NYC is the difficulty delivering goods) and I wouldn't cut NJ a break by crediting the tunnel tolls towards the fee (why punish Westchester and LI drivers) but I'm nitpicking. The plan will be refined and compromised as it gets closer to reality. But over the last few years it's become more and more obvious that there are more and more cars in the city. And the first thing I was told when I started working here was you can't drive to work in the city. And it's true. It's one of the things that makes the city the city. Not everyone likes it, but if you really can't deal with it, don't work here. Good job by Hizzoner.

Tim N.

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:28:44 -0500

sammy

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:28:21 -0500

brian

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:20:16 -0500

I Love this idea!!! ...especially if the tax revenue goes to providing more mass transportation options for the outer boroughs

SP

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:16:15 -0500

i'm all for it too. i own a car as well, live in manhattan on the uws. i'm a freelance graphic designer, so i'm not rich, and i work all over town. i walk or take the trains as much as possible. it kills me when i see some jackass in his escalade leaning on the horn in traffic, as well as all the other douche bags by themselves in their cars, with all their nasty attitude, as if the roads in midtown belonged to them. detractors try to argue that this will be unfair to "working families" but in reality, working people take the train to work, only hot shot "golden boy" execs in their beemers and hip-hop retards in their hummers are the ones who will be hit by this, and in my opinion, they cant implement this soon enough.

David Charles

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:13:30 -0500

Another car owner (Manhattanite) in favor. This is exactly the sort of plan Midtown needs, otherwise nothing will change. Plus, more street trees can only make things nicer for all.

just one question

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:12:59 -0500

With there not being a freight line into the city, is it really a good idea to charge trucks? There is no other alternative for the delivery of necessary goods to the city.

b

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:07:37 -0500

the city should take priority of the residents that live in the city and around the pollution rather than the concerns of those commuters who can't afford to pay this tax.

John

Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:03:00 -0500

I think this is a great idea. The roads would be less crowded, the air would be cleaner, and businesses wouldn't have to double- and triple-park because of commuter vehicles everywhere. And to head off some of the detractors, yes, I live in Queens, and yes, I own a car. I take the train when I go to Manhattan. No, I don't make more than $100,000. Not even close.