yeah... i've had this map on my phone for over a year now. i could not bear having to go back to the official map. i think a clear example of what this map accomplishes is the overall illustration re: how the NRQ and 456 lines "meet" at union square. the official map tells you nothing about how the green lines goes through the eastern part of the park, and the yellow line runs opposite to it on the west side of the park. those little bits of information mean you can step out of the subway, note on which side the park is located as you step out, and move accordingly. same goes with a lot of connections: atlantic/pacific, smith-9th, wherever-the-f-the-g-connects.

Oh, also: for christ sake, come up with a name for your map that DOESN'T sound like an energy drink.

A step backwards toward the pretty (but confusing) abstraction that was the Vignelli map. If you like this thing, print one out for yourself and carry it around, but I'd be pretty angry if this were posted in subway cars and stations.

thanks Noah V (and others) - you really understand and put into words what the Kick Map is all about.

Eddie Jabbour

Locals, you've got it all wrong. This isn't a map for tourists. This is a map for you.

The MTA's system of colored lines, black dots, and white dots is based on the express/local dichotomy of Midtown. Each route's color is based on the street it follows through Midtown. Local stops in black, express stops in white. Simple, right?

It's not. "Express" and "Local" actually don't mean that much, as the MTA admitted when they eliminated the "Double letter for local, single letter for express" route names in the 80s. Many routes run express in one borough but local in another. Case in point -- the E train, which is a local in Manhattan but runs express in Queens. The current map is not up to the task of explaining this clearly in any part of the city, but falls particularly flat outside of Midtown.

Furthermore, night and weekend service changes throw the whole scheme out the window. A black "local" dot ends up meaning "some trains stop here sometimes", which is a useless thing to say. But who's most affected by night and weekend service changes? It's not tourists, who benefit from the fact that service in Manhattan doesn't change much on the weekends. It's outer-borough residents, who have to endure truncated service through their boroughs when it's not rush hour. Take a look at the G in Queens and the M in Brooklyn for an example.

The current map makes things a bit harder for tourists who are unfamiliar with the express/local system in Midtown, but it makes things much harder for New Yorkers who are trying to use a part of the system they're a bit unfamiliar with. The Kick map makes it easier for both groups.

I'm honestly a bit puzzled by the commenters who seem to see this as an either-or proposition, a dichotomy between geographic accuracy and Londonian clarity. It's not. Both the Kick map and the current map are somewhere in between perfect geography and Harry Beck. That's appropriate for New York, and I don't fault the MTA for wanting to lose the Vignelli map in favor of something more geographic, but people are treating this like a return to Vignelli. It's not even close, my friends. As the Times said, this is a "hybrid" of Vignelli and the current map, and I think it's better than either of them.

Besides, am I the only one who doesn't find the Kick map to be that much less geographic than the current map? Sure, the shapes and geometry are simplified and smoothed somewhat, but not anywhere near to the extent that Vignelli simplified them. I find this map to be nearly as usable as the current map for geographical purposes.

The Kick map shows, with perfect simplicity, which trains stop where at which times. The current MTA map does nothing of the sort. The whole "white dot/black dot" dichotomy actually tells you very little and breaks down once you leave Midtown.

For the commenter who complains that this is a "dumbed down" version: It's nice that you find it macho to use things that are unnecessarily complex, but many of us value clarity and simplicity. Sure, it's fun to get lost sometimes, but usually it's not.

Att: Dave Hogarty

Dave, great survey! I found the comments very interesting and many of them supportive of our now 28 year old map design.

Those who keep referring to London don't seem to get it that the geography of NY is so different that Beck or Vignelli's efforts just don't work here.

I would be happy to expand upon this little state ment if you would allow me some (maybe quite a bit of space).

Get back to me if you are interested.

Thanks,

Mike Hertz, Designer of 1979-today's map

maps.yahooo.com includes subway locations (click on "Public Transportation").

And I'll add it would be super helpful if mapquest or google maps included subway locations!

Olusay, I am a New Yorker AND a designer and my concern is not the tourists - let them get lost in the south bronx or better yet stay home - but the locals.

Travis - that wouldn't be as easy as you think since the red line, for example, is 3 separate lines that largely converge in Manhattan but branch elsewhere (and converge with other lines) in the outer boroughs. Hence the letter/number distinctions.

One thing I'd advocate is better neighborhood maps (in proximity to the subway maps) so that when you EXIT the train you can better orient yourself to your destination. Without the WTC it's sometimes hard to figure out which way is which.

I don't have problems figuring out the current map, but lots and lots of people do. There is a problem - using oneself as the sole determinant is a thoughtless thing to do, and is probably why most of you are NOT designers!

The argument that geographical hints (not accuracy) matters is spurious; the overwhelming usage mode of NYC subway maps is from within the subway system, not street level, and the people using them at street level are estimating how to get from station A (the one closest to their current location) to station B (the they already know to be closest to their destination).

If you really need comprehensive door-to-door directions, Hopstop (Google it). Please. Prove that you're actually internet-savvy New Yorkers.

My problem isn't decyphering the routes (but I have lived here all my life) but more the issue of the lines' schedules. A lot of the trains don't run all the time, or only at rush hour, or go local after a certain hour, and the key for that kind of info is pretty confusing. I couldn't find a link on this site to the full map though, maybe it has that info somewhere.

Well, seeing as how the main criticism of the Boston MBTA map is that it doesn't correspond to real geography very well... at least this one shows the boroughs, and not just the train lines against a white background.

Still, I think the crucial thing is not to redesign the map, but to redesign the routes!If you didn't have the 4, 5, and 6 interconnecting with the N, R, and Q, but instead just had the green and the yellow (with or without memorable names), wouldn't that be simpler?

Line maps like they have in most other cities, showing you just the line you're on, and all the stops in either direction, would also simplify things a lot.

I think the KickMaps map is not so good. The current map is great. If you are headed someplace new on a train and paying attention to the map, you can notice subtle things. The curves are great. Little things like the sudden curve right after 42nd st on the 4,5,6 southbound. The current map lets you understand why and when you are turning. Pretty helpful for me especially in weird places when the E starts going East after 42nd st. Kickmaps might be good for tourists, but honestly, sell it to lonelyplanet or someone else.

The London map is a triumph of design. However, as others have noted above, the Kick map shares the London Journey Planner's biggest flaw: lack of geographical accuracy. A tourist in London might well decide to take the tube between the Bank and Mansion House stations, based on the tube map -- they appear to be some distance apart, but are actually about 200 yards apart down Cannon Street from each other.

I think the current New York map has a pretty good balance between geographical considerations and showing how the lines connect.

What I notice tourists being confused by (and I've only lived here a little over four years, so it confuses me sometimes too) is when the MTA does random or bizarre things like running an E train into an N/W/R station or making cryptic and unhelpful announcements that don't actually answer the questions that users have.

(What I do wish the MTA would do is publish a book of the area maps (by Michael Hertz) that you find in the stations. They're great, and show you the rough layout of each station, stairway locations, bus routes, street numbering, and local landmarks without being too busy. All the Manhattan ones have same scale, too, so it wouldn't be too hard. Howver, the MTA says they have no plans to do such a thing.)

Like I stated earlier . It's a "Dumbed down" version of the map ! How simple is to look for the line you need to go where you want . It boggles the mind every weekend when I see the very same people that are for this change standing their looking clueless as to where they want too go . There was this couple from Belgium that were trying to get too the city from Jamaica on the (F) train . They got too Jackson Hts. and for some reason got off the train and transferred too the (E) . You could tell they were from out of town as they stood their looking around trying to read the map . Finally when the train got to Steinway I walked over to them and offered to help them out . They asked why the train was stopping at this stop when it wasn't suppose to . I explained that sometimes when the MTA has the (G) stopping at Court Sq they run the (E) local . They looked at me and said "But the map says it's suppose to go express" . I asked where they wanted to go and told them to take this train to Penn Station and walk back too [6]th. Avenue . I didn't have the heart to tell them too transfer @ [7]th. Avenue to the (D) they were befuddled as it was riding the subway . The point here is they had a map before them and spent the better part of two hours riding back and forth between Jamaica Estates, & Jackson Hts. because the conductor stated that the trains next stop was Roosevelt Island . They didn't understand how the train wasn't going too the city .(Whatever the hell that means)It's just people paying attention to things and following directions that's the problem here, Not the map !

I consider myself somewhat of a typical tourist who frequently relies on public transportation during my visits, so correct me if I'm wrong in this method...

I'd like to go to destination X. I refer to a travel guide or other readily available info to determine what subway station is most convenient. I then make my way to said station, referring to subway maps and signage, get off, and immediately locate a posted street-level geographic map to orient myself and proceed to destination X on foot.

If this process is typical, then the Kick map is perfect. It assumes people know what station is their destination, which I would argue is the case 90 percent of the time. The purpose of the Kick map is to aid people in navigating a complex subway system to reach a desired station.

I like that london, but only because it shows connections into NJ as well as the AirTrain.

I prefer the current map. I've also had to use the London map, and hated it.

As others have pointed out, a geographically accurate map makes it easier to plan the best route. It gives you some idea of how long the train will take to get to your destination, and how far you have to walk. With the London map, its easy to pick the station farther away from a location between two lines.

There are also advantages to showing all the routes separately, but they are negated by the MTA's practice of running and then discontinuing express service periodically on some routes, and in changing secondary routes. Right now, you would need separate maps for the weekdays and weekends.

If we ever get the money to reconfigure the subway system, I would like to see express and local trains run on separate lines, and to incorporate the PATH and the JFK airport train into the express service. You could then charge separate fares for express and local service, which I think is a better way of adjusting fares for distance travelled than the zone system used in other cities.

What about this NYC subway map, drawn in the style of the London Underground:

www.columbia.edu/~brennan/subw...

Check out http://kickmap.com/ for a full comparison of the Kick Map and the Current MTA map design. Cheers!