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This morning, 33 were killed and at least 29 more were injured during shootings on the campus of Virginia Tech. The NY Times reports that it "appears to be the deadliest shooting rampage in American history."
According to CNN, two people were killed at a dorm around 7:15AM while 30 people were killed two hours later at the engineering and mechanics building, Norris Hall. Right now, it seems that there was one shooter, who killed himself, but authorities "are not ruling out a second shooter." Virginia Tech's classes have been canceled through Tuesday.
The university police chief Wendell Flinchum was asked why the campus wasn't shut down after the dorm shooting, and he responded, "it was an isolated event to that building and the decision was made not to cancel classes at that time...We had some reason to believe the shooter had left campus." Students were told to stay indoors and away from windows. WTKR reports that VT students received a warning email about the shooting two hours after the dorm shooting "by which time the gunman had struck again." A student who lives in the dorm the first shooting took place told WTKR, "They had us under lockdown. They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."
The shooter's self-inflicted head wounds have prevented law enforcement officials from immediately identifying him (he was not carrying ID either). The Times reported that the authorities were trying to trace where the guns were from. We bet that if the guns are found to be illegal, Mayor Bloomberg, whose campaign against illegal guns has made him a "fierce and slightly insane"-looking cover subject for the NRA's magazine, will speak out about the shooting.
Update: Via the NY Times The Lede blog, "The lone gunman at Norris Hall was male, and he took his own life" and “'State of emergency' is declared by governor." Also, extensive coverage from the Roanoke Times.
Update 9PM: Students have been speaking to the media this past evening. Some told stories about escaping Norris Hall, some thought that the gunfire was construction at first. Trey Perkins, student who spoke to evening news outlets, said the shooter "didn’t look frightened at all, he didn’t look angry. Just a straight face.” Another student, Erin Sheehan, told VT's student newspaper the Collegiate Times, "He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something.” The authorities have not confirmed the ethnicity of the shooter, but have reportedly "preliminarily identified" him. Additionally, now it seems that the authorities are not ruling out a second shooter. From the Collegiate Times:
Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum said that there has been a preliminary identification of the shooter in the incident that took place in Norris Hall but would not definitively state whether the shooter was the same as the one that left two dead in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Flinchum back-tracked from his statement that the description Ambler Johnson Hall shooter did not match the description of the Norris Hall shooter, leaving it unclear as to whether police were actively pursuing a second suspect in the case.The question that keeps being asked: why wasn't the campus locked down after the first shooting.Flinchum said that police were pursuing an additional "person of interest" but would give a description.
Two weapons were recovered, but police were not prepared to release their make or model, Flinchum said.
Photograph of a SWAT team on the Virginia Tech campus by Steve Helber/AP
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I can't believe that the school police and administrators did not immediatly cancel classes after the first incident. The shooter killed at least 2 people in a dorm at 7am then just left and everything continued normally? Why weren't the police searching everywhere for this guy at 7am? How did he get back onto campus 2 hours later and kill 30 more?
Yo! I am dedicating this Super Bowl season to VT! Go Hokies!
w va probably has no illegal handguns, since guns are not illegal. the campus has a no guns on campus policy ,even for students that have a concealed carry permit.As usual the good people follow the las and the lunatics do what they whatever they want.
Whoa some retarded comments tonight...
And this is ME thats saying that.
I think the school is at least partially to blame for this. Why in the world didn't they close down and warn students at 7am? Why wait nearly 3 hours until the second attack occurred? This is George W. Bush level of incompetence we're talking about here.
And I am guessing the good people in Virginia will not be prompted by this to tighten their lax gun laws because something happened in their state instead of many single killings in places like Philadelphia, Trenton, Newark, New York, etc. where guns from Virginia were used.
People were wondering a few days ago why there was so much outrage at the cat murder and not so much at regular murders. This shows again that the problem isn't lack of outrage, it's the pervasiveness of would-be smart alecks who have nothing better to do than troll after such tragedies. I leave it to others to figure out whether they're using it as a defense mechanism or actually are sociopaths.
You guys are absolutely disgusting. Whether you are trying to be inviolably and untouchably hip by throwing out blase and ironically offensive comments in the face of a tragedy that only the "unwashed masses" outside of Williamsburg would have any feelings about, or you really do believe that racist bile you are spewing, either way you are absolute scum.
I went to Tech for grad school. This is just horrible...
The one good thing about free speech is that it allows idiots to freely express their idiocy, at least behind the safety of anonymous blogs.
Toby, all I've seen so far is a bunch of gun nuts on the internet claiming that if only the students and faculty at Virginia Tech were allowed concealed carry permits, this all would've been stopped much sooner. Right.
Guns don't killl people. People kill people. If you don't believe it, Canada has more guns per capita and fewer gun murders. My guess is that the nanny state means fewer domestic disputes over money and fewer crimes by the poor trying to get money. The mentally unstable probably get medical care as well.
I found it interesting that Vtech students are using social networking sites like facebook to console each other and share information.
Here is a related story.
http://collegecandy.com/2007/04/16/grieving-vtech-students-and-families-turn-to-facebook-for-answers/
Vatech will get their ass totally sued that is for sure. Stupid incompetent administrators. They obviously realized that shutting the school down for one day would cost them mucho money. And this bogus info "uh we thought the shooter left the campus". I wager the school president has a 80% chance of being fired or asked to resign.
The Chicago Sun Times states it's a Chinese national who's the gunman.
Can you guys chill and lay off the racism for just a second?
I currently go to school in VA (not Tech), and I can definitely say that the people here are hit pretty hard by this.
Apparently there were been numerous false threats in the past weeks, which is likely what prevented a more prompt response to the early morning's events. Even so, the chain of events that's being portrayed by the media is completely perplexing.
Vatech will get their ass totally sued that is for sure. Stupid incompetent administrators. They obviously realized that shutting the school down for one day would cost them mucho money. And this bogus info "uh we thought the shooter left the campus". I wager the school president has a 80% chance of being fired or asked to resign.
It's easy to second-guess the administration. Shutting down a huge campus with 20,000+ students, in effect an entire small city, over what was thought to be an isolated domestic shooting undoubtedly did not seem to be a necessary step at the time. It was quite reasonable - tragically wrong, but reasonable at the time - to assume that the gunman had fled the campus.
33 people are dead tonight for no reason. To "Angry Asian" and the rest of you who think that is something to laugh about, shame on you. Get some guts and put your real names on your comments if you are going to spew this kind of hate.
Sounds like this guy might not have acted alone. I'm so curious to hear the story behind this, and how in the world someone could have any beef with VT.
People were wondering a few days ago why there was so much outrage at the cat murder and not so much at regular murders. This shows again that the problem isn't lack of outrage, it's the pervasiveness of would-be smart alecks who have nothing better to do than troll after such tragedies. I leave it to others to figure out whether they're using it as a defense mechanism or actually are sociopaths.
Possible multiple post here, thanks to:
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How is it Gothamist's servers suck so bad? Maybe "Technology Director" Epstein would be better off going back to playing with his Playstation and leaving the real computers to professionals.
Everyone deals with tragedies differently. It's not for us to judge Angry Asian, et al. Instead, we must be compassionate and help them through their grieving process. We all need each other's support right now, and we must allow people to speak in their frustration, anger and uncontrollable emotions.
It is the humiliating rejection of such people that often leads them to cry out even louder.
Notwithstanding the fact I'm from Virginia, went to grad school for a year at VaTech and am already pretty shaken by what happened, these posting have thrown me into a vicious cycle of despair.
Reasoning goes like this:
Are these posters for real, can they be that hateful towards Asians? They must be joking. But if their joking, how can on earth can they in good conscious use such a tragic event as a basis for their "comedy". I hope they're not joking. But if they're not joking, how can they be so racist?
You see why this is so troubling? Can one of you guys who posting all this stuff have the balls to actually justify seriously what you're saying this? Or at least put your email address or name on one of your anonymous posts?
Odd how the the first shooting took place at 7:15 then two hours later the gunman is back on the campus. Why weren't the police looking for him then? The whole campus should have been on a lock down mode to find the guy.
#30 Brightliner: I guess you can't read your original comment 2 hours before your second one at position 17? Genius!
rest in peace. my thoughts are with you.
"Guns don't killl people. People kill people."
Sure, but guns do so a hell of a lot more quickly than any other legal weapon. As for arguments regarding Canada and gun control, well, there are apparently more fucked-up people here than there, which really just strengthens the argument against easy access to guns.
As a former NYU student, I wouldn't be surprised to see this happening at NYU by some disgruntled student.
Sad, sad, sad for the 30 students locked in their classroom and offed during the prime of life. It must have been incredibly horrifying and frightening to watch each other be offed one by one.
My condolences to the families of the victims. These people were just starting life and did not deserve this.
That being said: 33 people are dead and the majority of the comments on this topic are Anonymous Assholes making racist jokes.
This is a tragedy with real families suffering and all some of you can think to do is make Racist jokes about it? That's really pathetic.
Why not try thinking about the Victims instead of your own "amusement". Regardless of the why or who, 33 people are dead and their families are suffering for it.
To you people making jokes, Grow up already. Just because you can be semi anonymous doesn't mean you have to be an asshole.
I already commented about this in the post about the horrific assault in Hamilton Heights, but it bears repeating here:
Gothamist, please do something about the flood of hateful, racist comments that are RUINING this website!
I was really depressed by the senseless violence in my very own neighborhood this weekend and then the carnage in Virginia today was devastating. Then, I read Gothamist, as I do every day, and the psychopathic, astoundingly insensitive comments written by some frustrated, pathetic fuckheads (or maybe some lone commenter, may we be so lucky) made me shake with anger.
Yeah, there will always be some loser with a 13-yr. old's mind who will feel it necessary to spread nasty venom about nappy-headed hos and small-dicked Asian men and "fuck you, Al Sharpton" but Gothamist deserves better. Please consider doing something about these hideous comments. Have some sort of filter process so the gratuitous bullshit isn't published. According to an article in the The New York Observer, The New York Times plans a future with more blogs based on the Gothamist model. Do you think they would allow such hate speech to be published?
Step up your game, Gothamist!
Gun control would have a short term net positive effect. The Government would then have an absolute monopoly over the use of force. The people of this nation would be docile and safe in the in the bosom of our Government. And we all agree that they would never deceive or mislead us. But if someday a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce the citizenry under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Not that any reasonable person would believe that is the case today. But someday we may have to take aggressive action against an oppressive government. We have had to before. It cannot be done with sharp words alone.
The issue here is a tragic lack of respect for human life, not access to firearms.
We don't need gun control. We need bullet control. All bullets should cost 5000 dollars.
Guns don't killl people. People kill people.
Nukes don't kill people either; people kill people so why won't they allow each law-abiding household one suitcase of nukes?
It was quite reasonable - tragically wrong, but reasonable at the time - to assume that the gunman had fled the campus.
NO it wasn't! The campus is 2600 acres! Did you see a map of the campus? It is enormous! There are numerous buildings everywhere. It is just as easy to hide on campus as it is to run off campus.
Nukes don't kill people either; people kill people so why won't they allow each law-abiding household one suitcase of nukes?
Nukes can't be aimed and usually don't have safeties. Also the license training takes a lot longer.
NO it wasn't! The campus is 2600 acres! Did you see a map of the campus? It is enormous! There are numerous buildings everywhere. It is just as easy to hide on campus as it is to run off campus.
In Virginia people own cars and drive places at high speeds! They use them to get everywhere they go so if you've just shot someone and you don't want to get caught you would probably have easy access to one to get away! :O
nd I am guessing the good people in Virginia will not be prompted by this to tighten their lax gun laws because something happened in their state instead of many single killings in places like Philadelphia, Trenton, Newark, New York, etc. where guns from Virginia were used.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that someone who wants to go out and murder 30 probably doesn't have respect for gun laws, no matter how tight they are. Lunatics and criminals will find guns.
Toby, all I've seen so far is a bunch of gun nuts on the internet claiming that if only the students and faculty at Virginia Tech were allowed concealed carry permits, this all would've been stopped much sooner. Right.
Not that I agree that college students should have weapons on campus (too much drinking, not enough responsibility) but if you really think this shooter would have been able to shoot 50 people if multiple people on campus were responsibly armed, you're simply wrong.
No way will I allow guns on campus.
From my cold dead hands. NO WAY.
I will out anyone who has a gun on campus.
You want guns? join the army, not an academic institution.
For all this talk of the right to bear arms to defend ourselves and the imaginary revolution that might happen, the fact of the matter is the Us is clearly the most lax western nation when it comes to gun laws, and by far the highest western nation when it comes to murders of any kind.
You do the math.
Gun laws are just WAAAYYY too lax in certain places
Tom said:
We'll never know for sure, but as you pointed out college students have too much drinking, not enough responsibility.Can you imagine if a college student got depressed, considered suicide and had a gun? Sound like what may have happened here. Allowing students to have Guns on Campus, IMO, would be a horrible mistake. Are the security guards armed? On most campuses, I don't think so.
In any case, I doubt we'll ever know what excuse that guy used to convince himself to do this.
So far all the victims have European derived names. In other words, they were White.
No Asian victims.
I wonder if John Liu would release a press conference denouncing this racist act.
(sigh)
See here for a partial list.
Maybe Henry Lee is Asian? Maybe Juan Ortiz is Filipino?
I don't know, and don't think it matters what ethnicity the victims are but thanks for using a Tragedy like this to bash John Liu. Very adult of you. Why not throw in Rev, Al Sharpton and anyone else you may dislike? Why stop at John Liu?
Gothamist:
Seriously, the offensive comments on your site are a problem. I have found them frustrating before, but these are downright horrible. Blatantly racist and insensitive. You have the right to remove them, and you would be doing all of your readers a service by doing just that. I understand that readers have opinions on the stories posted here, and the comments section is a great place for people to discuss them. But I think it is obvious when someone crosses the line and their opinion is not contributing to a constructive discussion on the subject. Stop pussyfooting around and pretending that you don't see these horrible things on your website.
This entire episode is proof gun control works. The people of this country have been made so docile they willingly line up and let a slightly built oriental execute them with a handgun.
I'm sorry, but a classroom of people could easily have taken this guy.
No, people today are more like cattle than men.
these comments are absolutely disgusting. do you people have no sense of decency?
A Note from Gothamist: This thread has had some offensive comments posted to it. We've gone through and deleted the ones that violate our comment policy. While this is a public forum, please be mindful of what you post.
Jen, why did you get a case of the Politically Correct blues?
You're so quick to release the race of other criminals, and rightfully so. That's one thing I've always admired about you.
Why not give a racial description of the VT shooter? Or give his name?
Why is this case so different?
And why suddenly delete "offensive" comments on this board, but not the others? Are nappy headed ho jokes cool, but fishhead jokes offensive?
woo-hoo! you go Jen chung and Tien Mao! You racially profile these posts and delete the messages that you personally find offensive cause they pertain to your race and not the ones that pertain to blacks or whites. Show them what editorial censorship is all about.
the argument that the people should have the right to bear arms in order to form citizen militias that could challenge the government in the event of despotism is sadly oudated. that concept was borne out of the american revolution, at a time when people fought with SWORDS, the musket being an inefficient and unreliable weapon still. you could practically outrun a musket shot on a horse.
if the american people had to rise up using force against the government today, it wouldn't last a second, even if armed. we might have access to some semi automatic and automatic firearms, but we certainly don't have access to armored mechanized weapons such as tanks and apc's, nor do we have artillery and air force. there is absolutely ZERO justification today for citizens to bear arms.
yes, the sophistic and idiotic rhetoric of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is true simply because an inanimate object can't of it's own will operate itself to kill someone (unless you consider the newly built autonomous robotic mobile weapons systems being deployed today by the military and high end security companies). guns do enable people to kill people with ease and efficiency that does not exist without them.
Guns should NOT be available to anyone outside law enforcement and military without strict licensing, and only certain models at that (single shot hunting rifles that must be manually reloaded after each round is discharged). Amunition must also be even more strictly controlled. Anyone who argues against this is either an idiot or is disingenuous.
the only control we have over our government is through clear separtions of powers, constant oversight of the government's proceedings, participation in VOTING and transparency in the voting process, and for people to be educated, participate in government at all levels, and to actually give a damn instead of withdrawing into anti-government seperatism.
"if the american people had to rise up using force against the government today, it wouldn't last a second, even if armed."
Ha. If you could just convince the Mhadi army of that we'd be out of Iraq in a jiffy.
I can consistently hit a silver dollar with a deer rifle at 200 yards. If a hostile government force tried to take a city filled with armed American citizens it would make the green zone look like a tea party.
We need to take time to love on those that are not at the top of the social chain. We may never truly know the motive behind such horrific actions that the killer uses to justify his or her means. However when the downtrodden and socially uncool are are excepted I believe a major motive is removed.
"Sweatband man", I think society had less to do with this than one guy (hopefully!) deciding to take people with him when he committed suicide.
IMO, I doubt we'll ever understand his motivation.
to sweatband man: what are you smoking? Who cares about the socially unaccepted? 99.9% of the nerds in this world are harmless and watch porno and play murder simulators 24 hours a day on their computers and still haven't killed anyone. This dude may have been an outcast but he's a anomoly.
What ever happened to crazy? The dude obviously had mental issues. I know people who are loved and accepted and they have absurd violent tendecies still. People should stop analyzing this situation. It was a human lightning strike. It won't happen again for another 5-10 years. We should just accept this. Stop trying to figure out what the killer had for breakfast.
Guns should NOT be available to anyone outside law enforcement and military without strict licensing, and only certain models at that (single shot hunting rifles that must be manually reloaded after each round is discharged). Amunition must also be even more strictly controlled. Anyone who argues against this is either an idiot or is disingenuous.
If that was actually the case, that's one thing... but the fact that a criminal can get a hold of a gun easier than a minor can get alcohol makes your argument moot and quite idiotic.
Until the government can guarantee its citizenry safety (ie: you can be safe in your person in your home or walking down the street, your utopian argument is unrealistic.
The guy breaking into your house doesn't respect gun laws. Making them harder for law-abiding citizens to get a hold of only makes it easier for them.
"Ha. If you could just convince the Mhadi army of that we'd be out of Iraq in a jiffy.
I can consistently hit a silver dollar with a deer rifle at 200 yards. If a hostile government force tried to take a city filled with armed American citizens it would make the green zone look like a tea party."
The Mehdi Army and other insurgents are equipped and trained by Iran and Syria. They have a constant flow of weapons, and these are people that have been fighting their whole lives. americans don't have this history of internal and constant conflict. you might be a great marksman, but i doubt highly that you grew up and spent your whole life steeped in and practicing a culture of guerilla warfare. if a hostile government force tried to take a city filled with armed american citizens, they could probably sit back and relax while these citizens either killed each other or holled themselves up a la Waco TX before moving in and mopping the rest up.
Tom, a "criminal" can get a hold of a gun only because we have no consistent gun control laws at a federal level. I can drive down to some shit hole state and buy a gun at a fair then drive it back up to the city and sell it on the street. So it is in fact your point (or lack thereof) that is moot and idiotic.
It's not about the guy breaking in to you house who doesn't respect gun control laws. It's about the people who sell the guns, and about the manufacturers who want to make money off weapons sales, no matter the human and social cost, who don't respect gun control laws.
You don't need a college education to engage in gurilla warfare.
I just can't understand how you want to disarm yourself against the individuals with the ability to do the most harm: the government and their human manifestations, the police. Any government should always have a healthy fear of the citizenry. Without that fear we are docile calfs subject to the will of a tyrannical despots. I agree, we should educate ourselves and vote with conviction and pride, doing our part to keep power from corrupting our delicate system of balances. If that fails on some dark and hopefully far off day day, and despots take the reigns of our republic, I'd learn to fight and fight well. I hope never to see the end of this republic, but if the constitution and the government that it gave birth to becomes so infested with cancer that it needs to fall I'd risk my life to deliver the death blow. I can't do that without my rifle.
"You don't need a college education to engage in gurilla warfare."
no, thats exactly my point. you need generations of violent conflict, which doesnt apply to the vast majority of american citizens. i admire your bravado. you are clearly a fan of red dawn and steven segal movies. i'd put my money on you shitting your pants at the first hint of marshall law.
I know too well the difference between stylized violence and actual violence. Half of my lifelong friends have been touched by the last 6 years of war. One from the very first day. They tell me that everyone "shits their pants" either literally or figuratively when they first get in a situation that might end in their death. The only thing you need to be a competent fighter is to move forward after you've crapped your pants. Of my friends that have seen combat, all share my views on the second amendment and for roughly the same reason I do: to protect themselves, not only when the government can't, but if, God forbid, the government becomes the criminal. And they are the ones who have put themselves in harms way serving our system of government. You may be right, I can offer little in the way of expertise in gurilla warfare. However, I am young, capable, and I would follow them into hell.
But do not think that I seek conflict. I am with Hemingway when he said: "Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime."
"woo-hoo! you go Jen chung and Tien Mao! You racially profile these posts and delete the messages that you personally find offensive cause they pertain to your race and not the ones that pertain to blacks or whites. Show them what editorial censorship is all about."
I have to agree, the censorship on this blog (and yes, it's pefectly fine to censor comments on a private blog) seems to be arbitrarily applied.