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Oooh - according to the NY Times, the MTA has been investigating the possibility of installing floor-to-ceiling glass walls and sliding doors at the Second Avenue subway. Apparently, having walls and doors might "allow substantial energy savings" and "reduce temperatures by about 10 degrees." Whoa, imagine that - no more super hot platforms on those summer days?
The interesting back story is that former NYC Transit President Lawrence Reuter rejected the idea when it was presented during earlier iterations of the Second Ave. subway plan; since he left the agency in February, MTA planners went back to engineering firms to ask them about platform doors. Still, the MTA denies the second look has anything to do with Reuter's departure, telling the Times it's more about energy savings and safety benefits - maybe even more subway efficiency (less track fires from trash!).
One question is how trains will work with the doors; will the subway car's exits line up each time? And there's a quote from Reuter himself: “I definitely discouraged it because it’s a cost item and it’s a maintenance item. It’s only going to apply in a few stations. What good is it going to do if you can’t adapt it to the rest of the system? I didn’t see any benefit, plus it’s going to cost extra money to maintain them.”
Photograph of the Hong Kong subway by Ian Muttoo on Flickr
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It’s a good idea, but the NYC subway system is MUCH larger then its counterpart in Hong Kong. It would cost quite a bit of money to install those in every station. Not to mention assholes will probably scratch up the glass and make it look terrible.
That old gag. Like the Second Avenue Subway will be built...
www.forgotten-ny.com
I am pretty sure the R68 (train model used on D, Q, N, franklin ave shuttle) is still going to be around, and on the Q, by 2015. The cars were built in 1988. MTA mandates a 25 year warranty on subway cars. And I highly doubt the MTA will want to reconfigure the ancient (by then) cars to work with automated train control systems and platform doors.
The Jubilee Line Extension in London has platform doors. Come to think of it, so does the JFK Airtrain.
After visiting Hong Kong last year I was completely floored by how nice their subway system is. The floors are so clean you could practically eat off of them. However, much of that has to do with cheap Chinese labor.
At any rate, the glass doors would be fantastic, but NYC has so many disgusting, rude, careless people and those doors would look horrible within a couple days.
Not to mention assholes will probably scratch up the glass and make it look terrible.
[1] Posted by: Kojak | April 5, 2007 12:15 PM
NO IT WILL BE STREET ARTS OMG
;)
hong kong's standard of living costs are higher than nyc. 'cheap chinese labor' doesnt exist there. in fact, nyc is in 10th place whereas hk is 4th.
I think it's a good idea. You can cover the glass with mylar to prevent vandalism. The doors can work with older cars too, they are either manually activated by the driver or use a combination of signal status/location sensors to detect when the doors open.
Not to mention it would make it harder to look out and see if a train is coming.
they would be destroyed by acid etch graffiti in about a week...
Another key benefit is that these design makes it impossible to people to fall on the tracks, intentionally or otherwise. This means fewer disruptions to service as a result.
Another key benefit is that these design makes it impossible to people to fall on the tracks, intentionally or otherwise. This means fewer disruptions to service as a result.
you won't need to lean over the tracks to look down into the tunnel to see if the train is coming... by the time this thing is built, they will have the electronic signs up in all of the stations telling you how far away the next train is...
Why are they making the 2nd ave subway so fancy? It's not like if they made it exactly the same way as every other line nobody would ride it. Air conditioning? What a waste of energy. If they had decided to keep it simple, it would cost a fraction of the price, construction would have started long ago, and we wouldn't have to wait 15 years for its completion.
Additionally, those glass walls are just lame.
they have these signs in the hk (and china stations) that tell you the exact moment the trains come. the signs are crazy precise too.
Why are they making the 2nd ave subway so fancy? It's not like if they made it exactly the same way as every other line nobody would ride it. Air conditioning? What a waste of energy. If they had decided to keep it simple, it would cost a fraction of the price, construction would have started long ago, and we wouldn't have to wait 15 years for its completion.
Additionally, those glass walls are just lame.
Wow. Maybe they'll work more than 50% of the time, unlike the MTA's elevators and escalators. I'm not holding my breath, though.
it's a great idea and long overdue. unfortunately, given the mta's track record, even if it does happen, i'd still expect it to be a crappier rendition of what's out there. it's a shame really. nyc is a world class city with a third rate system.
But it wouldn't be graffiti. Just ask our illustrious publisher above. He'll tell you it's "STREET ART" that enlightens us poor, benighted, unwashed masses. Or beneath-the-street art in this case.
paris subway has this.. so do russia's systems... so why can't we build it?? you would think the "financial capital" of the world could afford its analysts to travel in style to work....
It's a good idea for safety reasons, though I'm not sure about the cost savings or the air conditioning idea.
Overall it seems like a bad idea, as it will probably be more expensive to install and maintain/replace/repair. It will get graphiti'd and it will also mean even more advertisements.
An important point is what about when the subway stops short of the mark, as often happens... That'll cause big delays having to back up, etc...
There will surely be other problems we haven't anticipated. As far as the safety issue, if people are just careful and responsible for themselves then accidents will be kept at a minimum as on current platforms.
How long before they cover the glass in advertisements, one long wall of corporate branding message?
These things would be more trouble than they are worth if the trains are being run by actual humans.
When ridership goes up and they have use older equipment on the line they will just waste money removing the things.
Let's do it! Put it in the whole system. Anything that adds to the overall level of civility is welcome by me. My first reaction was "great, way less noise level on the platform". The decibel level in NY subway far exceeds any I've used around the world.
One word: Vandalism.
This isn't Hong Kong.
Don't do it.
Energy savings? The stations aren't going to be air conditioned, so how would they be saving energy?
All this is moot. They don't have the money to complete the Second Avenue line as it is currently designed, never mind adding several hundred million bucks to the pricetag.
My bad, they are planning to cool the stations. A better energy saver would be to eliminate cooling completely...there's no compelling reason for this short stump line to be cooled while the other 468 stations are stifling.
I tried to post earlier about the fact that at least one subway line in Paris has walls (and seems to be completely automated)... if it IS completely run by robots, I can see why the transit folks would be opposed to implementing it here -- the union wouldn't be getting as many jobs out of it.
glenn, how does this make the subways "civil"?
#6: dont worry, 15 years later the MTA finally figured to glue a piece of plastic over the windows to make acid and scratchitti cheaper to repair http://www.straphangers.org/diaries/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/228138/page/18?PHPSESSID=bda661fb5bf1cc9678ca96c06086694d
Street tram- 1/10 the cost at most
They never have trouble lining up the trains with the doors on the Air Train.
I think it's a great idea. Will it happen anytime soon? That's another story.
As for the potential vandalism, they should just draft a law that declares that anyone caught defacing the walls gets acid poured onto their hands. If the consequences so severely outweigh the act, I don't think that many people would attempt it. Sure it's harsh, but I don't think that anyone worthwhile would object. The only people who would cry foul are the perpetrators, and who gives a shit about them anyway?
"just do it" wins.
Bad idea ! Aside from the vandals, You have to take into consideration the stupid people . We all know what happens when some people don't have to go to work . They go out have one to many and act like total assholes ! This would be a vehicle for one of these clowns to get themselves hurt and end up suing the TA .
Hmm... This sounds really nice in principle, but I'm not sure how it'd work in practice (although other systems around the world haven't had a problem with it)
For one, the platforms would be considerably more pleasant, although I wonder if the same thing could be accomplished by making them larger, arier, and well-ventillated.
Looking at the designs of the new stations, I can't help but cringe at how ugly they are. Let's spend money on making these things sustainable rather than frivolous amenities.
To add on to my previous post . We as New Yorkers aren't sophisticated enough to have things like this in our subway system . If you need further proof just call the company that's responsible for maintaining those bus shelters throughout the city . Ask them how many times they've had too go out to a location and repair the glass fixtures because someone broke it . In the long run it would cost the city more in repairs then it would in buying the glass ! Did you notice how clean that station in Hong Kong is ? Name one subway station in New York that looks that clean?? I'll wait for any of you to come up with an answer to that question