Update: Oreo, Dog Thrown Off Building, Was Euthanized
People Wait For Tomorrow's UWS Apple Store Opening
FIT Students Busted For Drug Dealing Get Probation
Giuliani Livid Over Bringing 9/11 Trials to NYC
A number of documents were filed yesterday in the lawsuit against the city by family members of 9/11 victims who want the city to search the debris on Staten Island for human remains. Among the affadavits filed was one by Erick Beck, a recycling supervisor, who stated that some of the finely sifted debris taken by the Department of Sanitation was used to "pave roads and fill in potholes, dips and ruts." Beck, whose company was finding up to 2000 bones per day, also stated that his company was pressured to sift the debris quickly, which led to overlooking human remains.
Theodore Feaser, who supervised the recovery effort for the Department of Sanitation said in an affidavit that "hundreds of human body parts and human remains" would be found if the city "unearthed, resifted and washed the debris at Fresh Kills. In addition, in a letter written in 2003 by city medical examiner Charles S. Hirsch, Hirsch stated that he believed that it was "virtually certain" that human remains are mixed with the soil at the landfill.
Normal Siegel, one of the attorneys for World Trade Center Families for a Proper Burial filed the papers yesterday in response to the city's motion to dismiss the lawsuit. The lawsuit seeks to have at least 223,000 tons of debris searched for human remains. The city refused to comment citing the pending legal action.
Photo of Fresh Kills by kerfuffle and zeitgeist on Flickr.
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
tweet this
post to facebook
Is it really necessary to sift thru a landfill in the hopes of finding "pulverized remains?"
for gods sake whats the difference if a bone is buried in Staten Island or somewhere else...lawsuits won't undue 9/11
The first two comments are obviously from people who did not lose someone from september 11th..We lost my brother Thomas Cahill in the WTC and where his remains are may not matter to you but it matters to me my family and almost all of the families...You cant possibly understand how a family member feels unless you have walked in their shoes.....The idea that initially we did not know if our loved ones were alive or not was horrifying and now yes let them rest in peace but many family members have no cemetery to go to and no remains what so ever......it would help to be able to go to a peaceful spot such as a cemetery to honor their loved ones..the staten island landfill garbage dump just doesnt do it........ and even if they make it a park someday its still horrable......try to put yourself in our shoes.........the lawsuits at times are the only way to get change.......its not about anything else ..Honestly if your husband wife son or daughter were lost in that way on that day do you think youd be fine to not ever know where their remains are if any at all????
They're pulverized bones just give it up already. And no, I wouldn't give a shit if they were a family member. What that person was isn't in their body parts.
give it up then why are you reading this??? Obviously you are an insensitive moron you did not experience this tragedy and you could never know until something of that magnitude happens to you...Also my friend lost her husband and they have no remains should she tell her 5 and 8 year old give it up already when they are still identifying bones etc to this day..you have no clue dont respond to me you at least could be sensitive to family members or you are just cruel..........leave it be yourself and have some respect...................If your closest relatives remains were put in a garbage dump i doubt youd be ok with that rather you may prefer them in a cemetery ..I will not argue with your stupidity so just have some respect please......
I have respect for the dead, and I will not say I can fully comprehend your pain... but finding every single bone will not make the dead live again. What happened was a horrible tragedy. I was horroendous. But it is not the first time in human history that people have died on a massive scale and unfortunately, it's unlikely to be the last. While it is obvious that the city did not do a good job in disposing of human remains, we cannot turn back the clock. There can never be completion in a case of this magnitude.
The people who died are now one with the city, whether some remains were found and put in a cemetery or some remains were put on Staten Island. I do have sympathy- but I do not see groups like yours going over to India or Thailand or down to New Orleans and insisting the the dead from disasters being buried with dignity, or the names of every dead person being put on a plaque. The previous big disaster in New York- the burning of the General Slocum- is memorialized by one memorial, with not a single name on it. There's no museum, no great memorial every year, nothing. The same goes for other more recent events like the Happy Land Social Club fire.
People around the world face terrorism on a daily basis. In London, people have been getting murdered for over a century by terrorists, Nazis, and who knows who else. Yet people there accept that it is impossible to find every single piece of the dead, and they don't even believe it's necessary- the mourners know who the dead were.
The greatest memorial that could be given to those who died during the 9/11 disaster would be a concerted effort on the parts of the surviving family members to fight terrorism, provide comfort and money to families who lose loved ones in disasters and terrorist acts around the world, and insist that the UN and the US government make good on their promises to track down the murderers. As unfair as it might be, no one except your family will remember who Thomas Cahill was 20 years from now, and it his remains will have become part of the earth no matter where they lie. But if in 20 years you can have helped to make the world safe enough so that no one will ever have to go through the pain you are suffering now, you will have left a memorial for him that will outlast pigeon poop, worms, and graffiti artists. In fact, your memorial will even outlast you.
Michele, kudos on the "blame the victim" tactic and your Macedonian call for Americans to direct all their confusion, grief, anger, suffering, and sadness towards fighting terrorism - ignoring any shortcomings of this current administration and focusing on supporting a quagmire of a conflict against a supposed threat to our country.
GROW UP. This world is changing, this country is changing, be part of the movement of people that realize that LOGISTICALLY, TERRORISM IS NONEXISTENT IN THIS COUNTRY, AND THAT ITS POWER AND POLITICAL POTENTIAL HAS BEEN USED TO THIS ADMINISTRATION'S GREATEST ADVANTAGE IN KEEPING AMERICANS BLIND TO THEIR CORPORATE INTERESTS.
But Michele coldly suggests that Kathy's (to whom I offer my greatest condolences and my sincere apologies to for this ignorant, insensitive treatment) simple, human desire to recover her family's remains is an attempt to "make the dead live again." Actually, Michele, that's voodoo magic; what I believe Kathy wants is a little bit of time and money spent by our government - say, maybe 0.001% of what we've spent in the (initially a two-week) occupation of Iraq - to do what any legitimate crime scene investigator would do in order to identify and collect bodies. The fact that these poor folks have to file lawsuits to get anything done is pathetic.
REMEMBER THIS: IF IT WASN'T FOR LOBBYING BY THE FAMILIES OF 9-11 VICTIMS, OUR GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE NEVER CREATED THE COMMISSION OF 9-11 OR RELEASED IT'S SUBSEQUENT REPORT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Google "Jersey Girls."
Michele, your argument is so full of holes I really don't feel like pointing them all out, but your understanding of "terrorism" is pretty evident when you claim that people in London have been subject to attack for a whole century to "terrorists, Nazis, and who knows who else." Yes, Michele, who DOES know what else? I mean, if you can't actually DESCRIBE an enemy, or understand his or her intentions AT ALL, other than terrorist or fascist, then you have a pretty bleak understanding of politics in general. Because all resistance, all fighting is the result of instigation, especially when your dealing with poor people from deeply religious countries.
Your last paragraph seems to come straight from the black, rotten, un-beating heart that is the Bush party line. Where in God's name do you even have the right to use Kathy's brother's name? How dare you even type it. HOW DARE YOU ask Kathy to set aside her grief to support the dead, tired, old notion that we can conceivably "track down the murderers," the party line first used to get ourselves in this disgraceful mess. Well, Michele, it's been a few years now, and Mr. bin Laden isn't anywhere to be found. Do your own research into why, and you might find some other interesting theories. And also to suggest that Kathy's money go towards finding remains in OTHER countries? Again, shifting the focus from domestic problems and shipping them internationally, then labeling the victim "insensitive" or "hypocrite" when they are more concerned with the problems that exist before their eyes, their everyday reality.
Michele, you represent a part of my country that I fear; I do not fear terrorism, I do not fear my people, I do not fear my government - I fear FEAR ITSELF. Ring a bell?
While I understand what you say here and you are well intentioned I disagree with some of what you say...I disagree with the fact that noone will remember who my brother was 20 years from now...while I understand what you mean behind that statement....Our family has helped others in this world in many ways and while I can say that you mentioning other disasters and World Tragedies is understandable.....we feel for all happenings in New Orleans and with each and every tragedy whether personal or public it does not diminish what happened on that fateful day in our lives.....I furthermore believe in this Country and am very patriotic..I believe in time we will get Osama and his henchmen and have gotten already many other terrorists. I realize people around the world face terrorism and we feel for them as well of course.. in addition it is important for family members to have their loved ones memorialized while I understand your sentiment that a greater memeorial is to help others and we do that as well while trying to still come to grips with our tragedy of losing a son , a brother a favorite uncle and friend...You could remember him ....and learn from his life ...he treated others with kindness was not perfect but humble and generous to a fault...funny as hell and inclusive of people and a wonderful guy that this world and we will miss......I hope you personally never have to experience up close and real personal such a loss...thanks for your response..oh and by the way I cant go to India because I have three children who need me here but I do help in alot of ways people who have sadness in their lives and need assistance..and we did fill trucks to go to New Orleans and such ....assuming we have not done that stuff is a mistake. Lastly ,I respect the fact that you wrote with dignity although I dont think you can fully understand unless you have walked in the shoes of such a tragedy. My friend who lost her husband and got no remains does still want something to be buried in her chosen cemetery and to her two daughters who lost their dad so young and violently yes it does matter alot where his remains lie....While in the greater scheme of things what you say makes sense your not looking at it from an individuals perspective.... I also do not think 9/11/01 was more horrible than new orleans or many of the other tragedies you mentioned but it was an attack on our country one of the worst in history thanks for your concern..
Terrorism does exist and believe me I know that first hand my brother was murdered by Osama Bin laden...and frankly Im tired and will let you two duke it out.......everyones entitled to their opinions but one things for sure my brother died on 9/11/01 and was murdered by Osama Bin Laden and it was an attack on our Country... nothing else that i know for sure....
Kathy -
I was wrong to say that terrorism does not (or didn't) exist in this country. What I should have said was that our country's radical change of domestic and foreign policy following 9/11 has been greatly disproportionate to the actual threat of terrorism within our borders. Where are all these terrorists? Why hasn't there been even one isolated incident of terrorism within our borders since 9/11? How difficult is it to actually come into this country and inflict horrible damage upon us? Why are there still tremendous lapses in security at transportation services or nuclear facilities?
Anyway, I subscribe to 9/11 Truth, so we are coming from very different points of view. God bless, and I hope true justice for your brother's death comes as soon as possible.
There's lots of anger here.
I would just like to say that human (and other) remains are a natural part of the ecosystem. Every atom in your body has been in something or someone else. You can't fight it. I think it's best to be at peace with it.
That's all.
Safe to say we disagree respectfully with each other..but i can tell you my family members witnessed 9/11/01 up close and personal my husband witnessed it all from the world financial center and my younger brother saw the second plane hit tower two so this nonsense with Charlie sheen is total bull....and believe me they do want to get us again have you forgotten the shoe bomber on the plane as well as they hit the ship USS cole I believe....my belief if you saw Osama and his bunch threaten us again and saw them laughing at it youd know these threats are very real as well as our governments defending us against them..there probably is alot we dont even know about threats to our country etc... If you disagree with the warr thats one thing but being so naive (respectfully ) to say that there are no terrorists wanting and trying to do us harm is untrue...... I agree about airport security etc as well ass nuclear facilities well we have different views but i respect you and your viewpoints ...I just know what i lived through and feel in my heart.....thanks Kathy
First of all- I disagree with this administration and its goals. Second- movements such as Doctors Without Borders, Greenpeace, Amnesty International and others have proven that individuals gathered together can do things that governments can't or won't do on a worldwide scale. The apartheid regime in South Africa was ended because the families of apartheid victims insisted on justice. They made freedom the memorial for their lost ones. Similar movements have sprung up around the world around other mass deaths. So far as I know, this is the only country in which people expect to have a perfect closure. The truth is it never happens.
I'm not blaming the victim. I stated a fact- that the bombing was a form of murder, and that the city did a piss-poor job. But the job has been done, and if we want a new generation of people who will fight for the idea of real freedom (not the stuff that George Bush pedals), we might be better off spending the money that would be used on combing the landfill on education, better policing, and other matters so that this will never happen again.
You seem to assume that I think America is the only country with terrorism. It is not. Fighting terrorism is about educating people and giving them a reason to move away from anger. As for terrorism in the US, we do have it here. Perhaps you have overlooked a little incident in Oklahoma city. Or the previous bombing at the WTC. Or the beating of Kevin Aviance here in New York. Or the murder of Mathew Shepard. All of those were acts of terrorism, and they happen on a regular basis in the US.
There's one thing many Jews learned from WWII. It's contained in the simple phrase, 'Never Again'. Not 'Never Again' for just Jews. Not 'Never Again' for just Europeans. No- 'Never Again' for everyone. Because any time, anywhere, for any reason there is a person who is forced to mourn their own Thomas Cahill because someone with a fanatical idea and a desire to kill is able to do his or her worst, that's one time too many. No one should should have to live through what you all are going through. Not anywhere in the world. However, every time a Thomas Cahill dies, or a Matthew Shepard, or a an abotion doctor, or a gay man walking through the Village, or a child in East Timor, we all die a little too, even if we don't know it. The only way we can all stop that is to be forced to care. Who better to force us than people who live in the most powerful nation on earth, who have the money, drive and influence to make themselves into a living memorial to 'Never Again', and make it stick?
It seems that your grief has unfortunately made you think that anyone who questions your desire to make the entire city into a giant tomb is your enemy. If you want to take your reasoning to its logical end, you will have to scrape the lungs of every New Yorker who breathed in dust, dredge the entire harbor for bone fragments, and insist that nothing below 14th street ever be moved or built upon because the dust carried up at least that far.
My grief really you dont know it...you have not lived it in the form of losing someone on 9/11/01 and you obviously are the angry one it sounds to me that although you claim to have respect and care about the families of 9/11/01 and every other tragedy in the world.... you are mistaken if i think or any other family member thinks that the city should be a tomb ..I NEVER STATED THAT...you seem so angry AND HAVE ALOT OF VIEWS ABOUT THE FAMILIES AND HOW WE ARE HANDLING THINGS...and I will also state that there should be given every chance to my friend who lost her husband to find his remains for the sake of their two small daughters ..Discussing this matter with you we could go on and on... because I am proud of my brother his life and yes they all deserve the memorial and also the tributes each year..you see I KNOW they are all martyrs innocents murdered....and yes it was an attack on this great Country of ours. While obviously I know and we all know there is terrorism all around the world and yes we all care..I wonder if you had an immediate and horrible loss the way we experienced 9/11 and the years after you will never know the horrible details unless you were a family member. NOBODY wanted to be in the 9/11//01 club ......you act like we feel priveledged and feel entitled to great memorials and tributes...it breaks our hearts each time but yes we want to honor them they deserve it....Obviously each and every remain we will not find but in theory it sounds right and true to say oh what does it matter its all over and you can never recover it all and I can tell you IT MATTERS TO MY MOM TO MY DAD TO ME AND MY OTHER SIBLINGS AND MY CHILDREN IT MATTERS A GREAT DEAL IT WOULD MATTER FOR MY FRIEND TO TAKE HER TWO KIDS TO THE CEMETERY AND NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN DADDY IS WITH GOD BUT HIS BODIES IN NYC...IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BETTER FOR MY FRIEND AND OUR FAMILY NOT TO THINK OF OUR BELOVED IN THE LANDFILL AND ALL OVER THE PLACE IT MATTERS......AND I AGREE WITH GEORGE BUSH AND SO WE HAVE VERY DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS AND POLITICAL VIEWS WHICH IS FINE BUT THE BOMBING WAS NOT "A FORM" OF MURDER IT WAS MURDER.....AND ALTHOUGH YOUR IDEALS AND MINE ARE DIFFERENT I WISH THERE WAS PEACE AS WELL OF COURSE BUT FACT IS FACT OSAMA AND MANY OTHERS LIKE HIM HATE AMERICA NOT JUST PRESIDENT BUSH AMERICA DEMOCRAT AMERICA AND EVERYTHING ABOUT US AND YES THEY WILL TRY TO STRIKE AGAIN......
ONE MORE THING I FORGOT 'THERE IS NO CLOSURE"...NOT FOR MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOVED AND LOST IN THEIR LIVES PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED GRIEF OF THIS NATURE THERE IS NO CLOSURE.....