Manhattan Has the Richest White Toddlers In the Country

that is absolutely crazy!!.. but I can't seem I'm completely surprised by the numbers

;-)
EW
www.everydayweekender.com

"$284,208"

NYC is over...

fresh air, a backyard for your kid to play in, the freedom to run around and ride bicycles down the street with a group of friends,losing the sense of nyc entitlement and snobbery that most rich people here have...

My Kids' backyard is central Park. He has more green in walking distance than a lot of kids in the suburbs. Certainly more than I did growing up.

I can't speak for the snobs and entitlement however. My kid will be in public school if I can help it, and the people who are snotty, I can live without. But maybe thats because i come from less affluent background.

That's great, josh.
There's some GREAT public schools out there now. I wouldn't worry bout the snotty parents. I'd worry bout bullying more. Lots of jealousy out there.
Having Central Park as one's backyard is great, can't wait till I ride a bike with my kid there. We already skateboard there.
The burbs is SCARY. Ever visit a Wal-Mart on a weekend?

"Right, that's why tons and tons of people move to them"

See, sucking is subjective. It's taste, and to me the burbs suck. I assure you, your favorite band sucks too. :)

See I think that most of the stuff that's accessible in the city is a huge pain in the ass in the burbs. I need milk? I walk a block. I want beer? I walk to the corner. I want sushi at 2 am? I make a phone call. My kid is dehydrated from the flu and I need to be at the hospital? I'm there in 5 minutes from my door.

Sure you can get to the mountains from the burbs, but you know what? There's great hiking within45 minutes ride of the city, and when I need a car, I can just rent one to get there.

The school stuff scares me too, honestly. We'll figure it out, or lie about our address :)

It's all about what you personally like, but the longer i live in the city, the more I can't stand the burbs when I go back home to my visit my mom.

#10 is right about the crowds of overcaffeinated understimulated bugaboo moms (and the occasional dad) on weekdays. My wife and I both work to stay where we are, and I think she'd kill herself if she had nothing to do buy sit and bitch about the size of her husband's bonus while rocking the kid in the bugaboo.

That said, don't front on my stroller, and I'll keep it off your damn feet. I promise.

however as much as I'd rather raise a child in the city, the chances of your kid getting asthma and sick are exponentially greater since well...this city is super-filthy

#12 "All my friends that do have children ended up moving out to Jersey, LI, or Westchester"

Me too. about half of them have moved back within 3 years.

It probably depends on the burbs that you grew up in.

I grew up 20 minutes outside of San Francisco and loved it. It was a very diverse area (none of that burbs are homogenous argument for me - my neighbors were of all sorts of races) and I still got the culture of San Francisco within a short drive. We went to SF several times a week. I saw operas, ballets, went to museums. I breathed in fresh air. I learned about Trinidadian and Muslim cultures (see the Times article)- I had classmates from both places (and many more). I went to a wonderful school on 34 wooded acres. We explored the woods during recess and studied tide pools and creeks on weekends. Groceries were five minutes down the hill, and sushi places, etc also delivered. There were several hospitals nearby (10 minutes or so) so that was never a problem.

I loved growing up in the burbs! Obviously, not all burbs are the same, but there are certainly wonderful urban and suburban childhoods that can be had by living in them.

I'm grappling with the issue right now over whether to stay here and play the game of making tons of cash so that I can raise kids here, or to leave and go somewhere that has decent public schools. I find the public schools in NYC fairly scary. I was a public school teacher for three years here, and I went to public school myself (though not in NYC), so I desperately want to believe that they are decent, but I just can't. Private schools creep me out a little. I don't want my kid to be in a bad school, but I also don't want my kid to grow up alongside the children of the super-wealthy. Because they are REALLY scary.

the suburbs of new york city suck more than the suburbs of other parts of the country

I guess this is a good sign, although these people are helping to make the city unaffordable for normal people.

what kind of jobs do they people have making that kind of money?

I rather buy a nice size house in the suburbs than pay rent or buy and 2x2 shack in the city.

I can speak for the DC suburbs; I lived there most of my life. They're all right, until you actually realize what you're missing. But I was friends with easy-to-amuse nerds like me in high school, and they had cars, and we had a fine time until college. Then I realized that I needed my own car to get anywhere entertaining, and that remembering at 11:30 that you needed something from the grocery store means you're more or less out of luck, and that everything closes at 9. When I visit my parents, the suburbs suck. But I'd say it's cause it's harder to be a 20-something in the suburbs than it is to be a kid.

I agree that these people are helping to make the city unaffordable for normal people. I'm poor; where's my apartment, dammit?

"We pay a day care, where he hangs out with and plays with a bunch of other kids every day. He has learned not to be spoiled and how to share because of it. They also have time to teach him lots of things we couldn't do ourselves and a nanny certainly wouldn't. (He can count to 10 in like 5 languages)."

With all due respect, all of that can be done at home, too. It doesn't take a day care to teach a child how to share. And it doesn't take a day care to teach a child to count to 10 in five different languages. It takes a family that isn't lazy and tired.

I am NOT for a second saying that you and your wife are lazy. Not at all. But I know from experience that all those things can be reached if the family takes an active part in their child's life and development.

Part of the reason, for example, suburban schools are so much better than urban ones is that middle class (mostly white) people were able to collectivize and demand for services in a way that, for a variety of reasons (rooted deeply in racism, many would argue), people in poorer neighborhoods weren't able to do. To an extent, it was the point of the suburbs: to develop places close to cities that are better tailored to the economic needs of a newly emerging (at the time) economic class. So you got good public schools but maybe not-so-good public transportation, which was fine because most families had cars -- the services offered matched the needs of the people who used them.

But wealthy urban whites, I find, tend to have a defeatist attitude toward urban public education, preferring to pay for private schools instead of advocating for better public schools. It's somewhat reasonable -- if you can afford an alternative why wouldn't you? And if you do, why would you then waste your time trying to do good for public schools? It does, however, defy the collectivist attitude -- the shared declaration of economic and social needs -- that made the suburbs a success in the first place.

So in response to Siegel and Jackson, the only people who seem to benefit from gentrification and the new wealthy urban class are people who were well off to begin with, and from a purely economic standpoint, actually might have done better in the suburbs (free schooling, tax structure built around the upper class, etc).

On the other hand, poor people are pushed to places that don't have adequate public works (particularly public transportation, which is a big deal if you don't own a car). That these populations remain marginalized in the political process makes it just as difficult to advocate for schools and services in the suburbs as it was in the city. I'm not saying this is worse than the traditional urban/suburban divide, just that it presents new challenges, and the people who have traditionally dealt with those challenges, in a lot of ways, aren't stepping up to the plate.

As a lifestyle, I'm not knocking either one. I grew up in a suburb just outside of Milwaukee, and have lived in DC, Chicago, and now New York -- and love them all for different reasons.

Okay maybe not Chicago. Chicago is pretty weak.

I didn't think you were calling me lazy. Honestly, we could afford to have one of us stop working (I make less actually, but damn that glass ceiling), but we feel that him being at a good day program where he is being taught is better for him.

"He can count to 10 in like 5 languages."
Great. It's only about 10 more seconds til I vomit.
It's fine that there's this huge booming group of rich white parents here. But it will STILL take YEARS before the huge numbers of the rest of us are pushed out! Can't you gush about your kid on a website geared toward other self-important parents. Please?
Talking about your kid to the extent that you have is just annoying. I guess it's actually gothamist's fault for posting these types of rich parents vs. working class stories. It's destined to get nasty.

Sorry if I seemed to gush, frankly I don't really think I did, I was talking about an example of what I felt daycare can afford a child, not about mine specifically. I don't think I said anything else about mine being cute or so smart or anything obnoxious. Show me where I've been self-important. I've merely explained why we make the choices we did, without passing judgment on why anyone else subjectively likes their situation. I'm not the dick you want me to be, sorry about that.

Josh: I, too, love my career. More than you can possibly know. But I guess that when it comes down to it, my son's life is going to become more important than my career. You know the saying, when you're on you death bead, do you say, "Man, I wish I had one more day at the office!" Not many folks do, I would guess.

I can always go back to my career. I can't go back and see my son grow up. But, yeah, like you said that's my opinion entirely. Yours is most definitely a different one.

Regarding my husband and his job and seeing his son. He's lucky. He works for a really awesome agency that allows him to work from home from time to time. He also kind of names his hours from time to time, so if he wants, he can leave a little early, work from home every now and again, whatever he needs to do to see his son grow up.

To put it simply, if the BOTH of us aren't working, we can't afford to live here permanently (i.e. own a place) and spend the time with our son we want to spend. So, we're left with no other choice than to move out of Brooklyn when we need to settle down finally. And I'm assuming that we're not alone.

I noticed alot of middle class immigrants moving from the city to the suburbs as well as second tier cities like Jersey City, Newark, Paterson, Stamford, New Brunswick etc. I think it is sad that New York will only be for the the super rich and very poor.

NYC Manhattan is over...

And yet the rest implied that I'm that jerk who babbles on incessantly about my kid. Show me what I said that emobodies those admittedly nauseating parents? Did i tell you about his poop habits or riding a bike at 6 months (he doesn't now at 2) or even force you to watch a video of him scratching his butt? No. Nowhere in any of my posts did I gush or do anything of the sort. Rant against obnoxious parents all you want, but I challenge you to find the post where I did anything of the sort. Like I said, the one example you have is when I was talking about what I thought daycare's value was, not my sons.

josh, you picked the wrong site for reasonable commentators, just FYI.

every post is followed by:

[1] Jen, this is spelled wrong.

[2] Sharpton! SHARPTON!

[3] NYC is so over!

interspersed with various insults. why? i don't quite know.

Rich white people. They f*** up everything. Trust me, I'm from that tribe.

Well, the white part, anyway.

Siegel makes a fair point. I remember hearing Pete Hamill say once that he stopped worrying about the future of New York when he saw people deciding to live here in the city for the rest of their lives (including, one can assume, their childbearing years).

Here's what I say, though: if you grew up here or moved here and decided you didn't want to leave here just because you decided to spawn, then that's one thing. A good thing. Get involved with the schools, do positive things. Great. What I would say to the rest of you is this... don't expect the city to be like the 'burbs, or wherever you're from. Because you will discover fast that the city looks different when you are a parent in it. You can adjust to it, like most parents I know did and like my wife and I did, or you can try to bend it to what you need, in which case let me be the first to say, get the f*** out. We like it just the way it is (or maybe was). You have to decide: if the great things about raising a kid in NYC (diversity, easy access to museums and other cultural treasures, learning self-reliance and getting around without a car) aren't as important to you as having a Baby Gap close by, or having plenty of room for your supersize McClaren or getting everywhere by car, then I would say Westchester's that way.

PS: And guys, let's can the value judgments over SAH moms vs. pre-K and day care. For the vast majority of parents I know, the decision is a very difficult one, one more driven by economic imperatives rather than what's in one's heart. Anyone who thinks they are a better parent because they chose one or the other doesn't know dick about parenting, IMHO. Let's leave the high falutin' value judgements in the suburbs, too.

"You have to decide: if the great things about raising a kid in NYC (diversity, easy access to museums and other cultural treasures, learning self-reliance and getting around without a car)."

I do not deny that most affluent NYC suburbs are lily-white. I do, however, chuckle when people who live in affluent, lily-white n'hoods in the city and would sooner die than send their children to school with the rabble crow about diversity in NYC.

Tim N., I'm NOT putting you in this category - I don't know where you live and don't presume that you're white or anything like that. Your point's well-taken, but I do think a lot of people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to diversity.

"having a Baby Gap close by, or having plenty of room for your supersize McClaren or getting everywhere by car, then I would say Westchester's that way"

Now, now - the suburbs have more to offer than that. They're not just a place for superficial sheep who can't handle the city. Westchester simply has more to offer for people who want space, a backyard, safe streets for the children to walk down and play near, good public schools, quiet environs, etc. I'm sure this seems pedestrian to city people, but lots of perfectly sane, intelligent people make this tradeoff all the time.

[14] Posted by: wee takum over | March 23, 2007 11:04 AM...define Ghetto...Jewish? People of Color? You define the phrase :There goes the neighborhood"

TIM: “PS: And guys, let's can the value judgments over SAH moms vs. pre-K and day care”

Since I was the only one who brought that up (from what I can tell) I feel I need to respond especially since my point was apparently not understood. I never said one was better than the other. The point that I was trying to make was that it's a depressing reality that a family with one working spouse can make a decent amount of money (especially when you look at national incomes) and still cannot afford to live IN THE CITY comfortably. And when I say comfortably, I mean, buy a house/apt for less than 600+ thousand dollars, get a kid into a decent school (even the public schools are filled much of the time. I know a family recently who wasn't able to get their kids into the PUBLIC school in their very own neighborhood. Tell me how that's reasonable? Something is very wrong with that situation if you ask me.) It wasn't always like this. This city wasn't always like this. Only recently has it become so unbelievably expensive. For those who are still renting and desperately trying to make ends meet all the while saving up for an exorbitantly high down payment it’s a frustrating battle at best a losing one at worst.

The middle class New Yorker has to decide if it's worth it, is it worth both parents working their asses off in order to make enough money to send their kids to day care, hire a nanny, whatever? Or does it make more sense to move outside the city, have one person stay home, get a bigger place, have a yard, and commute into work every day. (Tim, you said SAH Mom. With all due respect, I know a lot of fathers who are staying home while the moms head to work. I know you probably wrote that out of habit, but I feel the need to call you out on it.)

My point was/is it's frustrating that it's come down to this.

And using the good old "get the f*ck out!* response to those of us who DO really love this city but are finding it harder and harder to make ends meet in order to stay here, well, that's just annoying. A lot of us are hardworking citizens who would love to make a difference in his or her local communities. But doing so is becoming harder and harder to do.

Oh, and one more thing, I harbor no animosity for those who can afford to stay here and raise a family, buy a house, etc. A little envy? Perhaps, but not hatred. It's only myself and my own situation I'm frustrated with. And New York City and all its people is the way it is; it gets over stuff quickly. Our being pushed out won't matter to most of the folks who live here, the city won't bat an eye. Our apartment will be occupied within days. And that's the most frustrating part about living here. You can give, give, give! And work your ass off to live here, and still at the end of the day the city couldn't give a shit whether you were here or not.

It feels like an abusive relationship. You want to stay with me? Fine, I have a lot to offer if you work for it. But I ain't lifting a finger to help you back.

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Yeah, I don't get what's wrong with moving to Tarrytown, Hastings, wherever etc etc. Pretty nice places, if you ask me.

So what's new? From the Upper East Side trophy wives with their multiple births; to the UWS wanna-be liberal mommies with their one perfect superchild, the city's crawling with entitled toddlers. Sad thing is, I couldn't have a kid if I wanted to. I'm way too poor to support one, but I'm just above the poverty line, so I can't get gov't. support. I need to live in NYC - there's no work in my field outside of the city. Stuck.

Mmm-hmm. NYT does it again with its hard-hitting breaking news. I'm so glad this article was written, because before Friday, I had no idea rich white people lived in Manhattan. Of course, if you go to UES during the daytime, the only white folk you'll see will be the toddlers, thanks to their parents leaving their little trophies with the hired help, most of whom don't seem to be white. Hooray for perpetuating stereotypes, rich white parents!

Wasn't meaning to single anyone out. Just that IMHO the conversation seemed to be taking on a tone that had a bad vibe to it.

(God, you can tell that these posts are written by a bunch of parents, we all lash out because we're fried and then we remember that we have to set a good example and we pull back. What the hell. Rock on. Parenting isn't for wusses.)

City parents all seem to know what it's like, and therefore are more compassionate to each other, because generally we're all in the same boat. But when I travel out of the city to the 'burbs, I have to watch what I say, because the minute it comes out that we put our daughter in day care and pre-K (and mind you, she's ten now!) we get the "bad parent glare." That is why I say that the pre-K vs SAH argument is usually found in the 'burbs... at least that's my experience... because the economic issues of living in a city usually make the decisions for the parents. I've found that it's one of the nastier imports from the 'burbs, along with SUVs and a weird sense of entitlement.

Oh, and BTW, I've lived and worked in the NYC burbs (yes, Mahopac, White Plains, Rye, some town in Rockland, too) and I'm here to tell you, they do suck. They really do. That's why we don't want the city to turn into them. So I stand by my "get the f*** out" comment.

However, mihow, you are absolutely right, I should have said SAH parents, I do know dads who stay home as well. Because the bottom line in parenting is this: whatever works. That's why as long as there wasn't an abuse situation, I vowed that I'd never criticize another parent. I would just expect the same consideration from the general population (not from you in particular).