Stroller vs. Subway

Dear Gothamist,

I am wondering if you can shed some light onto the topic of strollers on the subway specifically during rush hour. This morning on the the 4 train there was a woman with an infant in a stroller blocking one entire half of the doors. At the 59th Street stop, people literally had to crawl over her to exit the train, thus causing much added annoyance among the already sardine-packed passengers. She clearly could have stepped off the train and allowed everyone to exit, but instead stood there, oblivious to it all.

I usually try to shoot them an annoyed evil eye, but most of the time these moms are too busy keeping the kid quiet, they hardly take notice. Is there a way to politely ask these children's parents to get the F out of the way without being nailed in the Achilles with a the wheels of a "bugaboo," or am I stuck stepping over strollers for the rest of my commuter life?

Crowded trains during rush hour are always a nightmare for folks with and without strollers or packages, etc. While we personally have never transported a child with a stroller underground, we have on several occasions had to haul large packages to work on the train - and dread it. It is inevitable that you will always be in someone's way.

That being said, trying to be understanding is key. Sometimes people really are only half awake in the morning and somehow miss the chaos they are creating around them, or in moving just get in other peoples' way more. Try politely asking them if they can step aside for a minute so you don't have to worry about tripping over or bumping the child with your own bag, etc. Sometimes just asking people to move rather than hoping they pick up on your evil-eye is much more effective. If they don't respond, then we guess you are left to crawl over the Bugaboo and be on your way.

And for the parent's P.O.V., here's what Margaret has to say on the Stroller vs Subway dilemma:

Strollers are really hard in the subway -- smart parents avoid rush hour. You could fold up the stroller and sit with the baby if there are seats. Stepping out is impossible though, you risk not making it back on.

If I HAVE to travel on a packed train car, I generally move towards the middle of the car and stand so that the stroller is kinda between my legs facing me. If someone would be smart enough to give up a seat it's even better. If you have a seat you can pull the stroller right up to you and take up very little space.

There are definitely a**hole moms out there, but most of what I see are moms being treated with obvious disrespect. When I used to ride the subway with Jonas in a Bjorn, people would glare at me and not give me a seat. That's kinda tough....you have a baby, a bag and you are trying to hold on to the pole.

Stroller policies are popping up at some retail establishments these days. And here, thanks to Craigslist, is one happy subway rider's advice for subway etiquette.

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

By Christina Piluso in Miscellaneous on February 20, 2007 3:34 PM

Comments [rss]

stroller todler

Great article! Strollers changed so much i can't belive it! Just like technology. http://beststrollersfortoddler...

jessi jones

This is an old thread that I found while searching something on google but I feel compelled to give my two cents considering all of the anger and hatred toward parents strollers. First of all, let me say I hate inconsiderate stroller pushers as much as anyone else. I would always fold my stroller if I had to ride during rush hour. But the idea of maintaining a folded stroller and holding my 27lb baby who can't walk yet makes me tired and slightly petrified of dropping him, just thinking about it. The reason some parents use strollers instead of a bjorn is that a bjorn is extremely uncomfortable after about 12 pounds. Back pack carriers are better but I am pregnant and its not a good idea for me to carry my 90th percentile baby for long treks through the city. I couldn't find a good doctor when we moved to Queens so I returned back to my Manhattan doctor. Even when he starts walking I can't count on him walking for distances for quite a while. I specifically researched the most city friendly stroller because I remember my hatred of them in my single w/ no kids days. However, its not as easy as an umbrella stroller because those are not rated for very young children. I bought the most space efficient stroller I could with easy folding so I could go up and down stroller stairs that would last from birth to a few years. It is a city mini for anyone that cares.

You have no right to tell me I shouldn't breed as I can't tell you not to listen to your music player too loud, sit with your legs too wide like you have some giant penis, or lean on the pole. There is no value to those behaviors but yet I have to live with them. I do my best to minimize my annoyance to other passengers but I need to use a stroller & I will not make life choices like moving to the suburbs or delaying child rearing because it annoys you. Get over it. There will never be laws against strollers. And back to the breeding, my son will be paying your social security checks in the future. Maybe he'll be the doctor who helps you in your old age. Perhaps he'll be paving the roads or building your retirement home when everyone of your generation is too weary to do so. So be glad I bred him.

ubsts

If anyone has carried a stroller w/ a child or two down the subway and are stuck in it during rush hour, I seriously doubt it's for fun.

With what third arm would I fold up the stroller, hold on to the kids and find a poll to keep us all in place during rush hour without the kids getting crushed by ignorant idiots like yourselves? Who's got subway etiquette during rush hour? It's a car full of self serving jerks like you.

Why in the world would I move to the suburbs for transportation issues? Stats show way more kids are fatally injured from car accidents in the burbs.

No apologies from me, next time you wanna give me an advice like 'take a cab'? Put your mouth where your money is and pay me the cab fee. Is $20 too much for you? Well, then stop being such a BABY!!!

dcb

I'm taking my baby on the subway tomorrow.

PJ

From 39..

"So I think a lot of parents use strollers as a protective device for their kids -- that, and the fact that kids just can't walk as long or as far as adults, even if they are 4-6 years old or whatever."

I'm just wondering why kids need to be dragged along everywhere anyway in NYC? I know that's un-simpathetic, but part of the problem is all these new Manhattan parents trying to selfishly maintain their mobile adult lifestyle and not let junior stop them from living it up. Your kid is not a toy dog. Move to the suburbs. I do not want to see your child in a restaurant in Nolita. Ever. There's no good reason for that. Move.

JES

1. If you're not going to work, taking the kid to school or the doctor (or yourself), or have some other really good reason to be on the train at that hour, stay off the train during rush hour. Neither one of us needs the hassle.

2.I think there is a whole generation of parents who were probably ferried around in cars. I was a city kid. We had a folding stroller. I walked as soon as I was capable of managing it. On occasion, my parents would scoop me up if things were going too slow. My friend the pediatrician told me she sees a lot of children who are far behind in their walking and running skills, because they literally never have to walk.

3. I'm not a baby/parent hater. Whenever I can, I help out with the stroller. It makes things a lot easier for all of us. I also give up my seat on the train.

4. Bikes on the train always struck me as kind of amusing--you're taking a vehicle for a ride on a vehicle.

Panopticator

Perhaps there are some tasty class and gender subtexts to this debate. The Bugaboo and pregnant woman might irritate because:

- SUV stroller = ostentatious flaunting of wealth required to have kids in NYC

- upscale stroller Mom at rush hour = wife living off hubby's salary instead of breaking glass ceilings

- low-income Mom = more dumbing down of society

GR

Whats worse than the stroller people is the "leaners" - people who lean their entire bodies on, over and around the poles on the subway cars, oblivious to the fact that there are other people glaring angrily at them who might like to grasp that very pole to keep from falling to the floor!

A problem ESPECIALLY on the B and A,C,E lines where the older cars have no vertical poles adjascent to the doors and only 6 or so vertical poles for the entire car. I've noticed about a 70/30 female to male ratio amongst the leaners, with the women usually fitting the profile of young/hipster/oblivious or old/fat/oblivious and the male leaners looking generally stupid, disheveled or strung out.

What’s worse than the stroller people is the "leaners" - people who lean their entire bodies on, over and around the poles on the subway cars, oblivious to the fact that there are other people glaring angrily at them who might like to grasp that very pole to keep from falling to the floor!

A problem ESPECIALLY on the B and A,C,E lines where the older cars have no vertical poles adjacent to the doors and only 6 or so vertical poles for the entire car. I've noticed about a 70/30 female to male ratio amongst the leaners, with the women usually fitting the profile of young/hipster/oblivious or old/fat/oblivious and the male leaners looking generally stupid, disheveled or strung out.

What is going on in the minds of these subway idiots? I struggle to imagine the callousness and disregard for self that would lead one to let one's guard down on the subway to the extent that they don’t know or care that they have single-handedly become a total impediment to the safe travel of other passengers. I guess some people don't notice or care - until they get shoved out of the way.

preg-neat

#37

" and would you rather that every person who has a child suddenly stop using public transportation, get a car, and screw up the environment? that seems much more unnatural to me."

expecting to have everyone jump up and offer you a seat on a crowded train at rush hour when you're preggers is expecting a lot. if i see a woman who is obviosuly pregant to the point where it's difficult to stand, i will offer her my seat. mostly because I'm considerate and a little because I know what it's like. I would never flash attitude and get visibly annoyed and angry at people sitting in seats (like i see some women do) when not offered a one.

A**holes are a**holes... pregnant, not pregant, with strollers or without strollers. the stroller a**holes just stand out more because they are taking up so much space with enormous SUVs like the Bugaboos or Gracos. #37 seems quite entitled and pretty disillusioned.

Eugenia

Seriously, I wish eugenics didn't have such a bad name. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, you know...have offspring that is. Can't we have some kind of SAT test for prospective parents--weeding out those with weak intellects, lack of creative potential and a tendency towards lockstep conformism, assholery and American Idol?

Lilitu

#35, i'm not understanding how being a parent is unnatural to the environment.

#38, while I did not post 35, I took that comment to mean that strollers are unnatural to the subway environment, not children.

And while, yes, neighborhoods change, that doesn't excuse shit behavior on the part of stroller-bearing parents.

Gwinny

I always wondered why you'd see older children in strollers -- until my 5-year-old nephew came for a visit.

Without a stroller, he was virtually invisible to other pedestrians. One time I was walking with him near Cooper Square and even though I was holding his hand, some dude in a business suit managed to run right into him anyway - then he had the nerve to snarl, "WHY DON'T YOU KEEP HIM ON A LEASH!!?" at me...

So I think a lot of parents use strollers as a protective device for their kids -- that, and the fact that kids just can't walk as long or as far as adults, even if they are 4-6 years old or whatever.

That being said, I do think it's kinda lame for parents to bring strollers on the subway during rush hour. If they absolutely have to be somewhere during that time, the least they could do is choose the first/last cars (which is incidentally what cyclists are required to do during rush hour). Yes, those are often crowded too, but at least people will know what to expect when they choose those cars.

Lilitu

#35, i'm not understanding how being a parent is unnatural to the environment.

#38, while I did not post 35, I took that comment to mean that strollers are unnatural to the subway environment, not children.

And while, yes, neighborhoods change, that doesn't excuse shit behavior on the part of stroller-bearing parents.

s

#35, i'm not understanding how being a parent is unnatural to the environment. as far as i know, in order for the human race to survive, we have to procreate. and would you rather that every person who has a child suddenly stop using public transportation, get a car, and screw up the environment? that seems much more unnatural to me.

and to all those who are complaining about how NYC never had this problem in the past. well tough sh*t. times changes. neighborhoods change. people change. just because there wasn't a huge baby boom in the city ten years ago doesn't mean anything!

if people just showed some common sense (strap the kid on in the subway, fold up the stroller if there's a need for space) then maybe we'd all be happier. of course, i'd also love it if the large men and women didn't take up more than one seat or the homeless didn't camp out in the cars, but heck, we can't have everything.

Soylent Fudge

Re: complaining about riders not giving up seats for preggeroids: I always offer my seat to the eldery or crippled, but being pregnant is a condition you elected to be in, rather than an inevitable situation or bad luck. So your contributing to the overpopulation problem doesn't exactly inspire me to spring out of my seat after a tiring day at work...

Soylent

Re: complaining about riders not giving up seats for preggeroids: I always offer my seat to the eldery or crippled, but being pregnant is a condition you elected to be in, rather than an inevitable situation or bad luck. So your contributing to the overpopulation problem doesn't exactly inspire me to spring out of my seat after a tiring day at work...

fawefaew

Hello new people to the New York City metro area. There was a time when you would never, ever see strollers on the subway ... call it Beginning of the Subway System up until the 1990s. All of a sudden ... stroller boom!

Don't get sanctimonious, parents and parent-supporters - what you're doing is unnatural to the environment, so don't be suprised when angry commuters kick the wheels of your stollers (which they have every right to do).

ohplease

"Please, if you can't handle living in the city, get the fudge out."

Um hello, I've been doing just fine here in the city - where I was born and raised - save for the inconsiderate strollers blocking exits and rolling over my feet. It's not me who needs to adapt.

And thank you to the poster who mentioned the pre-schoolers still in strollers. Mom, Dad: if the kid's feet are dragging under the thing, it's time to move on from the stroller.

PJ

"Stroller regulation? Please, if you can't handle living in the city, get the fudge out."

That's sort of the problem right there. Why did this city have to suffer the population boom of the unders 5 yr olds in the first place.

Why do you have to force our city to be baby friendly?

laura

Wow, some haters here on Gothamist. What about fat people? What about teenagers? I'm all for being courteous in the subway, and this is after nine months of people generally not giving up their seats when I was pregnant, but some of your attitudes are ridiculous. Stroller regulation? Please, if you can't handle living in the city, get the fudge out. Sometimes people are jerks on the trains and you have to deal with it. Some of them may have strollers, some of them loathe strollers. Frankly most parents with bugaboos don't take the subways--- too posh for it --- so it may have been their nannies dealing with an emergency. Who knows? Wanna talk about asshat pedestrians with cellphones who disrupt sidewalk traffic? Now there's a self-absorbed mess.