February 11, 2007
Some Supermarket Baggers Aren't Paid - Who Knew?
There's a somewhat surprising article in the NY Times about many supermarket baggers fighting to get paid wages. It turns out that some supermarkets don't actually pay the people bagging groceries, considering them "volunteers." That leaves the baggers to rely solely on tips. While the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union tells the Times that the problem is mainly at ethnic supermarkets, the article mentions incidents at Associated and Pioneer Supermarkets in Brooklyn. (Apparenlty Gristedes and Food Emporium had a separate settlement with the state attorney general over "paying some deliverymen $75 for a 60-hour week, or just over a dollar an hour, before tips" - the supermarkets claimed the deliverymen were "independent contractors.")
What's most upsetting about this article is how does one actually know that baggers are supposed to get tips. We're certainly going to ask now, but Gothamist had always thought that supermarket baggers were other employees.
A lawyer in attorney general's labor bureau tells the TImes, "Even if you took the position that these people just came in and were just permitted to be there, instead of being actively hired, they would still be considered employees under the minimum wage law and would not be permitted to volunteer only for tips." And there's another subcurrent in the article about why many baggers continue at bagging, versus other trades they are trained in: Illegal immigrants taking jobs.
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The Key Food on Newkirk Avenue used to have empty but dirty coleslaw containers at the edge of the belt that were filled with pennies. I guess those were the tips.
This is off the scale. Real, legit supermarkets not paying their employees by pretending they just walked in off the street to "volunteer"? That's low.
If someone just works for tips (which sounds terrible) they could at least wear a badge to tell us.
Wow, I just instantly became a retroactive skinflint cheap bastard. I had no idea those people worked for tips.
I've never known the baggers to be paid. In my neighborhood, they are usually just kids from the area looking for extra cash. Honestly, with more of the big supermarkets going "bag your own," they provide a good service. I typically tip whatever loose change I get from the purchase. I've rarely seen any with bills in their tip jar.
Supermarket baggers????? what is this?
Where I come from in NYC, they're called the cashier. Why would a supermarket allow a person not affiliated with the place bag peoples groceries?
Shouldn't the supermarket look out for itself against liabilities? Who would one complain to if the eggs are on the bottom??
I've always had cashiers bag my groceries. I have also always had deliveries made by Supermarket employees. Otherwise, how could they advertise free delivery? Nevertheless, I've always given those delivery folk a reasonable tip. Actually, I would prefer if the supermarket just charged for delivery and stated that no tips are allowed. That would be truth in advertising.
As for calling baggers "volunteers" at those other places, that's just unacceptable. If they make the cashier lines more efficient with their service, they should be paid for that service.
These unpaid workers are also often under the minimum age for employment. I've always tipped them but even then felt bad because even a generous tip is not a wage.
Do you guys really not bag your own groceries?
Cashiers are overworked and underpaid, and it makes the line move faster. Honestly, unless there's a bagger, I consider it rude not to bag your own.
The "Tops on the waterfront" on N.6th usually has younger kids baggin with a obvious tip jar beside them. They seem to do ok, the jar is often full of bills, but as Tom said above, its no replacement for a wage. At almost every grocery store I've been to in Brooklyn this has been the case, I'm suprised gothamist finds this shocking?? Wasn't there a similar lawsuit in the summer with Lombardi's Delivery people?
Why would I bag my own groceries? It's part of their job, no?
Full disclosure: while I've lived here for over 10 years, I did grow up in other cities. From what I remember, the places either hire baggers, the cashier does it, or it's specifically a "bag your own" place with discount prices. Clay, I guess this is what you've known all your life, but the idea that anyone working for an establishment wouldn't be protected under at least minimum wage laws does shock me.
Whenever a story like this comes up, I'm reminded of how New York can really be like the third world in many ways (for instance, how Brooklyn post offices measure up to those in pretty much any other place in the country). Supermarkets here think nothing of letting an essential ingredient run out, leaving either a giant space, or replacing it with whatever is stocked next to it. The meat sections in many of these places smell like 3 day old roadkill, and that too seems to be perfectly acceptable. Let's not even begin talking about expiration dates and quality control. I'm not referring to mom & pop places, but the "major" chains.
I definitely don't mind bagging my own, but the bag dispenser tends to face the cashier. I wonder if some of them prefer to do it so the customer doesn't come back in bitching about the bag that broke?
Tip containers at supermarkets always struck me as ridiculous, but now I know that this is a sign they aren't receiving wages. I'll know to stay away from these places.
#11 (hs) - cracked up when I read your comment on Brooklyn U.S.P.O. You must be using the Times Plaza branch on Atlantic Ave - their level of customer service is so awful their's a website for consumers to log complaints about. Try the Cadman Plaza P.O., it's worth the extra trip rather than put up with a situation that hasn't changed in the 7 years I've been in the 'hood.
Back on point...I was shocked by this story this morning. It's just wrong on so many levels. In my experience the big stores/chains (Pathmark, D'Agastinos, Fairway, Whole Foods) don't practice this, I presume it is mostly smaller single location grocers? Worst kind exploitation...what a shame to spend an entire shift bagging groceries and walking home with $25 or less.
So how can you tell if someone is getting paid tips only or not? Is there a list?
Now we have to tip supermarket baggers? How much? 15%? 20%? 30% for "exceptional service?" Give me a break! When will this end?
non-affiliated baggers are pretty standard uptown. it's not just kids...it's all ages, almost always male. it's pretty much the same people every time you go in, so they are definitely acting like employees, not volunteers. they have deli cups or the bottoms of plastic bottles near the bags where they collect their tips. i usually tip them whatever coin change i get back, or throw in some more if that's less than 50 cents. this issue was reported in (i think) the national press last year some time, and they stopped working at some stores where they hadn't been paid in over two years. that's when i tried to get better about tipping the baggers, but i still neglect it sometimes.
How about just cutting down or simply stop going to these stores where baggers are essentially forced to have a tip jar?
My local (tiny) supermarket is certainly ethnic (they are all Dominicans) and tip cups are on every check-out line. But the same baggers/deliverymen are there day after day. Since I drop at least a Grant there over the course of a week -- and especially since they've been stocking "gourmet" foods at prices that make Whole Foods look like Wal-Mart -- I assume the store can afford to pay all its "front end" employees. The kid who keeps coming on to me, I also assume, is looking to build a free-lance business.
I deliberately avoid the "bag it yourself" lines at Pathmark, since I'm old enough to think that bagging is included in a supermarket purchase, as it has been most of my life. Come to that, I avoid Pathmark, which plays games with its employees to skirt the wages-and-hours laws.
On my last visit to Pathmark, I was checking out around 5:45 when a manager approached my cashier. "You're working till 9:00 tonight?" he asked. "Yeah," she replied. "OK," he instructed, "Clock out at 6:00 and see me for the last three hours." In other words, even a major chain seeks to evade taxes and limit "paid hours" in a way that excludes some employees from fringe benefits like health insurance, paid vacations, and workers' comp, and can even reduce future Social Security benefits.
There's no "clean" way to do it.
This can all be avoided by doing the environmentally responsible thing and bringing your own reusable shopping bags to the supermarket. Obviously it's wrong that these workers often don't get paid anything but I can't believe how many people didn't know that was the case. I've been aware of it for years. I never tip them because I never use their service, in fact I often have to go out of my way to stop them from unnecesarily (double) bagging my groceries. Cashiers usually look at me like I'm crazy when I stop them from putting my one item in a plastic bag. Sometimes they don't listen and keep trying to bag shit after I told them not too. Yeah, I often feel like New York resembles a backwards society. When I lived in Seattle, supermarket cashiers at Safeway and QFC (the big chains, not little mom and pop markets) would often see that you had a bag of your own and ask you if you were planning to use it instead of taking a disposeable one. In Europe the bags at supermarkets are made of heavier plastic and they charge for them. As a result people tend to reuse them again and again.
I often wondered why there were tip jars at the grocery stores I frequented. I figured they asking for tips in addition to their regular wages.
Now I know.
truth is, it's a unique job where a kid can make his own hours and begin to understand what the real world is like while earning his/her allowance. don't take this learning experience away from kids in your quest to 'protect' them.
that's right, dug. are you listening, kids? i hope you've learned valuable lessons about working for little to no wages, getting no benefits, and being made to work off the books. sure makes earning that "allowance" worth it, doesn't it?
RESPONSE TO NY TIMES ARTICLE ON SUBJECT
Your article in the February 11, 2007 edition of the New York Times, named my company, Gristedes, and by this association insinuated Gristedes did not pay our employees.
Nothing could be further from the truth and you have an obligation to my company and your readers to write the truth.
The delivery workers (baggers) you write of were never Gristedes employees. The facts revealed Gristedes had no control over these delivery men.. they did not report to Gristedes management nor did they ever punch a Gristedes time clock. These men worked for an outside, private delivery firm which supplied workers to Duane Reade, A&P, Food Emporium and Gristedes.
When this delivery company declared bankruptcy, then Attorney General Spitzer went after all of those companies who had hired the services of this now defunct company and for sake of convenience and at the urging of a Federal judge, we all were forced to settle.
There was never an admission or even an implied admission of guilt on our part, and in fact, if I knew then what I know now, I would have never settled. It came to light during the legal proceedings these delivery men were making $500 - $600/week in tips TAX FREE. When the lawyers and courts settled this matter there were never any provisions made to pay the back Federal, State and City Govts the tax due and none of the back taxes where ever paid. The amounts these delivery men made tax free exceeded the amounts in many cases our hard working, TAX PAYING employees make.
I sincerely feel this was unfair to my company and the hard working employees everywhere who pay taxes. Once again, the only ones who made out on this deal were the lawyers.
If you wish to discuss further, please feel free to contact me.
The Truth has to get out
John
John Catsimatidis
Chairman CEO
Gristedes Foods Inc
jac@Gristedes.com
212 956 5803
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Wow, way to make me never want to shop at Gristedes again, jerkwad.
It looked ridiculous when I witnessed a 50 year old women bag and carryout groceries for a young couple and their child. They just stood back and watched her load it into the car. That is why people are so fat, because they are lazy.
As for the bagger/carryout person...If I don't want their help, it is looked down on because "I'm not helping someone make a living off tips."? Huh? I never asked for their help. Why don't they go clean the streets for tips. To make everyone happy, I will tip them after they bag and carry out myself to get a little exercise into my day. However, to me the whole idea of baggers, in my opinion, is very stupid.