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The hullabaloo surrounding the Park Slope Barnes & Noble's request for parents to park strollers upstairs in a designated area is exactly the kind of tempest in a neighborhood that brings out the haves (having children) and have nots (having no children). But what's fascinating is the dialog created on both the part of the parents who want to wield their strollers and those who want to be free of strollers while writing their Great American novel at the B&N. Here are some of our favorite comments on Brooklyn Record's post:
Rule of thumb: If your kid is too heavy to carry on your back (which you should be doing, instead of wheeling it around in a mini-SUV), then it's time the brat started to use his lil' legs. If he doesn't WANT to use his lil' legs to go shopping/socializing etc . . . with you, maybe you should postpone those activities until he can share in them with you.We have to say this much: Keeping strollers upstairs near the door sounds reasonable, although there probably is a fear that the stroller will be stolen. Of course, this debate lends itself to a new area of products:And: ...I've seen a lot of pretty cool parents in Fort Greene & clinton hill. Maybe because the baby-amenities are not so readily available here (yet), it attracts a more hardy and sensible type of person. And they generally stick to themselves, strap their kids on like little koala bears. It's not a big deal to them!
Also: the other day, i was walking down the street with my kid in his stroller and somebody walking by (another parent with a stroller) told me i was being abusive cause i hadn't put the plastic rain cover down over the stroller and it was cold out and my kid was going to get frostbite. the thing is, he screams when i put that thing down, so i try to avoid it whenever possible.
- Stroller Lojack
- Strollers with removable wheels or handle bars
- A "boot" for strollers
- Stroller alarms that sound like your child's crying
- Fake baby vomit so the stroller is super unattractive to would-be robbers
- Smelly diaper pail for strollers
The NY Sun points out that Tarzian West has banned strollers in its aisles - but it couldn't get away with making parents leave the strollers outside.
Photograph by Jean_Lafitte on Flickr
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The SUV stroller wielders are behind the times. So over.
Everyone who is anyone uses a Baby Hawk Mei Tai or a Didymos baby wrap. Where are these people getting their trendy news from? They cannot be Park Slopers unless they are in the know.
Are they providing security for the strollers?
Also, Gothamist remarks about the people who have the problem with the strollers being those trying to write the Great American Novel... if they really are the people with the problem, you people annoy me. B&N is not a free office space!
The manager over at the B&N on court street in Brooklyn, Matt Majesky, loves kids and tries to make his store a welcoming place for parents and their children. So, Brooklynites with kids that are feeling unwanted should patronize the Court Street B&N and ask for Matt. He'll be happy to say "hi" and thank you for your business.
...told me i was being abusive cause i hadn't put the plastic rain cover down over the stroller and it was cold out and my kid was going to get frostbite...
man, i really hate when people give unsolicited advice to strangers. mind ya own damned business.
The article mentions it as Tarzian West, which is across the street, not Tarzian hardware. Tarzian West is for kitchen supplies, and it's aisles are MUCH tighter and narrower than Tarzian Hardware.
i used to live in south park slope and it was pretty miserable going to proprieters in the neighborhood during the daytime. i came to the conclusion that the majority of babies' faces who do not share your blood are hideous and their desperate noises were at base cumbersome and at worst parasitic. i do love people who raise their babies remotely (not with an au pair- i'm talkin' rural tennesse). its not that babies are bad- its that the babies are ill fitted for crowded, historic condidtions in urban brooklyn environments. now i live in crown heights and much the same can be said of the raccoons.
Thanks for catching that it was "Tarzian West," although I have no idea why strollers need to be in the aisles of Tarzian Hardware, because I wouldn't want a baby grabbing a trowel suddenly.
Slings and carriers ARE great....until your child weighs 30 pounds, but can only walk limited distances.
Strollers are necessary, but they are not necessary inside the B&N. Unless your child is asleep, there is no reason not to park it. And a separate space is a lot safer than leaving it outside the Tea Lounge (as we all do) or leaving it by the front door of the library.
My stroller is not a Bugaboo though, so I am not too worried about getting 'jacked'.
People in Europe park their strollers outside of restaurants and cafes WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN THEM.
O to live in such a kind land.
I've tried to get 'em to ban wheelchairs, too. But nooooooo...
If you can afford a bugaboo, then I say you can afford a babysitter. (Unless you're one of those people who live in my neighborhood and pay super low rent in order to splurge all your cash on Marc Jacobs and Bugaboos, while complaining about the rest of us who don't cotton to you). Leave the kids at home rather than cause a stroller-jam wherever you go. Or strap the kid on your back, like a good citizen.
Back in the day we switched over to cheap umbrella strollers at about age 2. They fold up and you carry them.
But otherwise, what are you going to do? Strollers will be stolen, just like bikes are stolen. Try leaving either one in the bike rack outside the Brooklyn Public Library. There is usually a guy there with a cell phone taking orders.
a stroller ban is all well and good - but maybe we should take this to the next step - just ban children from public spaces -
I have a kid, a stroller, and a reading habit and I say B&N is in the right. Park your stroller, pick up your kid (or lead him or her around by the hand), do your shopping, un-park your stroller, and go on your way.
You'd think the store was eighty miles long and forcing people to leave their strollers behind would be some kind of torture! The two floors aren't that big and they are so courteous as to have working escalators, one that goes up and another that goes down! How's that for service?
If your kid is so small that he or she can't walk around by him or herself, he or she is small enough to be picked up for five minutes. If he or she so big that you need a tank in which to push your kid, he or she is probably old enough to walk a few feet. (Sorry about all the "he or she" business, but I'd hate to offend the Park Slope PC Police.)
If you're worried about your precious SUV, excuse me, Bugaboo, getting ripped off, buy a cheapo stroller (you know, the kind that existed when we were kids) for your jaunts to the bookshop.
The funny thing about the "No Strollers, No Justice" crowd is that they act as if they are the first people to have kids in the history of the world. How on earth did people get anything done before luxury strollers? Here's an answer: they actually picked up their kids or held their hands. Yes, they had physical contact with their own children. How novel.
Business?
It's not like the nannies/mommies and babies actually buy the books they read, slime on and tear up at the Barnes and Noble. They treat the place like a free library and day care center. Aren't there at least two libraries near by?
all this constant bitching about babies and strollers is just a sign of whiny people with too much time and money invested in hipness and appearance. i don't like the suv strollers either but christ, who gives a shit
How about the parents with kids just suck it up for the first year or two that the kid can't walk. Order the books from B&N online. Or maybe they aren't buying books...just taking up space in the store, reading and making a mess but not buying books. Hmmmm....
#14, you forget that these Slopers likely don't have a library card for the Brooklyn Public Library, because they aren't fully NY residents, and they still have their IDs and cell phone numbers from whatever backwoods they came from.
As a dad of kids who are 5 and 2:
* I have no problem with B&N's policy, as long as the strollers are in a secure place.
* My 5 year old hasn't been in a stroller for some time. But, if I'm walking a mile or more with the two year old, you can bet I'm taking (an appropriate-sized) stroller -- especially if I'll be gone a while and the kid will want to nap at some point.
* The closest I've ever come to murder is when some old hag once yelled at me for not keeping my child sufficiently warm on a cold day. My daughter (then 3) went through a phase of screaming/crying when I'd put on her winter coat. The options? Create a huge scene, or simply let her walk half a block before she said, "Can I have my coat? I'm cold!" This woman all but threatened to call the authorities on me one day. And based on how I responded to her, she probably should have.
* I do agree that some parents have this, "Hey, world, stop and take heed of what I spawned" attitude. Yet, I find it remarkable how many seem to be so anti-child. What the hell happened to you people as children? I've lived in a few places and have never seen such whiny self-centered, mean-spirtedness anywhere else.
PM, welcome to the Internet.
PM and other stroller-wielders:
The thing that gets me is when parents/nannies with strollers barrel down the sidewalk as if they own it. Rude and classless.
PM - You confuse feelings hostile to entitlement with anti-child/anti-parenenting feelings.
Many, though not all, of the stroller wielding parents in PS behave as if the whole city should bow to their needs, simply because they've chosen to take part in an activity that any two people with functioning reproductive systems can do. It seems that as these children age, this vibe is picked up upon, resulting in a children who believe themselves to be Park Slope's most precious little treasure, when in fact they're some normal ankle biter.
Not all of the parents in Park Slope are this way - these people are all over this city. It's just that P/S seems to have a higher concentration than other places. This coupled with the influx of intollerant, blog-happy, post-ironic hipsters results in the recent tempest-in-a-teapot we see here, on Gawker, Daily Heights, and who knows where else.
On top of that, VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE ONE of these helpless mini-people will eventually grow out of their helpless state in, you guessed it, ONLY A COUPLE OF YEARS.
So which makes more sense:
Having each individual set of parents be inconvenienced for just 3 or 4 years, or having ALL OF SOCIETY be inconvenienced ALL THE TIME?
A four-year-old could figure out that math problem.
Interesting thoughts, PM and Beanhead.
When I became a parent I vowed the one thing I would never do was criticize another parent, unless there was an abuse situation or something equally extreme.
Having said that... I remember once a woman came up to me and my daughter and said, "Honey, your daddy should really put a hat on you." I responded by saying, "Excuse me, one, my daughter has a name and it is not honey, two, you do not speak to my daughter, you speak to me, and I'm ignoring you, and three, she knows enough to scream when she has strange, obnoxious people approach her in the street, so if you don't want your eardrums pierced I'd haul my big nosy butt down the street."
To which she said, "Dad, don't say 'butt.'"
Look folks (and I say this as a parent), we live in a city. Space is at a premium. I know my fellow parents are sleep-depped and may be missing the obivous points, but there they are. There was a time when if you knew you were going beyond the playground or the preschool you brought out the umbrella-stroller (which weighs like three pounds or less, folds up like a dream and takes up a lot less space) or some other device that would help navigate the crowds. It's not that hard... and the example you set on problem-solving will serve your child well in later life.
It always seems that we let our burning desire to swap dirty looks with our fellow NYers overwhelm our need to get things done... not to mention our common sense.
Tarzian West is one of the worst stores ON EARTH. They won't even let you bring in a cup of coffee. They make you leave the store! Who ever heard of a freaking COOKING STORE prohibiting cups of Starbucks? I mean, I could understand if there were silks and chiffons lying about inviting spills. That place is miserable. Plus, their inventory is limited and LAME.
For those banned by B&N, why not head up the street to the lovely Community Bookstore?
Swedish Viking is right. Strollers are vehicles for people who cannot walk - some cannot walk at all, some cannot walk for long distances reliably. If B&N banned *wheelchairs* because they clogged the aisles, imagine the outrage. But what is a stroller if not a wheelchair? ANd what difference does it make, Math Person, if the disability is permanent or temporary?
Ditto for MTA buses, by the way, which will stop for five minutes to let a wheelchair passenger on but force a bag-laden mother to unload a sleeping baby from a stroller and fold the thing. Perhaps someone will market a stroller that looks like a wheelchair to avoid such discrimination.
Swedish Viking is right. Strollers are vehicles for people who cannot walk - some cannot walk at all, some cannot walk for long distances reliably. If B&N banned *wheelchairs* because they clogged the aisles, imagine the outrage. But what is a stroller if not a wheelchair? ANd what difference does it make, Math Person, if the disability is permanent or temporary?
Ditto for MTA buses, by the way, which will stop for five minutes to let a wheelchair passenger on but force a bag-laden mother to unload a sleeping baby from a stroller and fold the thing. Perhaps someone will market a stroller that looks like a wheelchair to avoid such discrimination.
re: #25
dear god, no - leave community bookstore the sanctuary it is...
Tim, I see your point - I was trying to express that I feel that this whole discussion is getting tiresome.
I agree with you that there is a lack of self control on the part of some parents, but the know-it-all echo chamber we're seeing here is blowing this problem way out of proportion. That is to say - living in this city also means that you can't get your panties in too much of a bunch if someone is rude with their stroller - or is bitching about you being rude with your stroller.
If B&N wants to ban strollers to make the shopping experience better (whatever that means to them) - that's their choice. If you don't like it, don't shop there.
Quit bitchin,You people make me sick with this shit ! Everything has to benefit you and the hell with everybody else ! This business made a decision based on the safty, and comfort of "All" customers . You mothers are but a fraction of the business remember that please .
Yeah, Shmurf, and the MTA should ban adult strollers ("wheelchairs") from buses because they slow everybody else down when they board and disembark, not to mention that they sometimes project into the aisle.
Ok - let's get one thing straight strollers are not wheelchairs, and wheelcharis are not strollers. Wheelchairs are for disabled people, and strollers are for children who are too young to walk or whose parents choose to not have them walk.
Equating the two is misconstrung the point, and is misleading. Generally, a child can either be carried by the person pushing the stroller or can walk, allbeit slowly. A disabled people cannot walk.
The MTA does a piss poor job of accomodating wheechairs anyway.
I don't get it, annon. A seven month old child *cannot* walk. Why does it matter that this disability is due to age? A ninety-five year old person with age-related osteo and a broken hip also cannot walk because of her age.
Who cares that this person's attendant *can* carry him? The point is that they can't get around on their own. I suppose at least some people with, say, CP could hire attendants sufficiently burly to carry them around too. That doesn't mean they should not be able to go where they want in wheelchairs - even to the bookstore.
And who cares that some older kids *can* walk? They can't walk reliably for the kind of distances that ordinary life in the city ("major life activities") requires. If they could, then no parent would put them in a stroller. Plently of disabled people can hobble around on crutches in a pinch, or can get out of a wheelchair to go down some stairs when necessaary. But they need a wheelchair to sustain travel for the kinds of distances and times that ordinary life requires. That is a perfect description of a fourteen-month-old.
Kids are human people just like childless adults, but they have abilities that are different from childless adults. Our society has already chosen to say that disabilities connected with walking deserve accommodation. Once that is decided, there is no basis for not treating strollers and wheelchairs the same way.
If you don't want moms & dads pushing strollers in your store, don't open a store in Park Slope! I sometimes get unsolicited advice such as "You could fit more wine in here if you put in another row of shelves, you know." Yes, I could... but parents wouldn't be able to bring their strollers through my aisles. I guess that I'm a dinosaur, thinking that, in retail, the customers come first.
I don't get it, annon. A seven month old child *cannot* walk. Why does it matter that this disability is due to age? A ninety-five year old person with age-related osteo and a broken hip also cannot walk because of her age.
Who cares that this person's attendant *can* carry him? The point is that they can't get around on their own. I suppose at least some people with, say, CP could hire attendants sufficiently burly to carry them around too. That doesn't mean they should not be able to go where they want in wheelchairs - even to the bookstore.
And who cares that some older kids *can* walk? They can't walk reliably for the kind of distances that ordinary life in the city ("major life activities") requires. If they could, then no parent would put them in a stroller. Plently of disabled people can hobble around on crutches in a pinch, or can get out of a wheelchair to go down some stairs when necessaary. But they need a wheelchair to sustain travel for the kinds of distances and times that ordinary life requires. That is a perfect description of a fourteen-month-old.
Kids are human people just like childless adults, but they have abilities that are different from childless adults. Our society has already chosen to say that disabilities connected with walking deserve accommodation. Once that is decided, there is no basis for not treating strollers and wheelchairs the same way.
If you don't want parents with strollers in your shop, don't open up your business in Park Slope, or in any neighborhood with young families. Simple as that!
In my shop, I occasionally get unsolicited advice, such as: "You know, you could get more wine in here if you added another row of shelves on the floor." Yes, I know that... but then the neighbors who shop here wouldn't be able to fit their strollers on the floor.
Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I thought that, in retail, the customer comes first.
I am by no means anti-stroller, but the fact is, it takes a highly tuned sense of speed, balance, and reaction-time to walk around in this city, and I say the earlier your child develops those skills the better.
You don't want parents with strollers in your store? Don't open a store in Park Slope! Simple as that. Shop owners are greedy to get a share of the young urban professional family's money, but they want on their terms, only.
When I built my wine shop, I purposely made the aisles wide enough for strollers... because plenty of my customers take their children shopping with them. I know I could fit another 40 or 50 wines in, but the aisles would be too tight. Because I want family business, I also do not sell "back pocket" bottles of liquor, and I don't sell lottery tickets. I want my customers to feel comfortable in my shop, so I make my shop comfortable for them.
I'm always amazed at how many retailers fail to put their customers first.
I agree that B&N has every right to ban the strollers inside the store and if they have set up a space to park the strollers, they have gone above and beyond,for this subset of costomers. The store is there for everyone to enjoy and I for one am tired of having to dodge little Beowulf's stroller and his kamikazee mommy as she multi-tasks by strolling the aisles while she babbles away on her cellphone in a voice as loud and annoying as her child.
I for one long for the old days of Park Slope when Connolly's bar was on 7th Avenue, before it became "fashionable",back when parents taught their children to behave.
Park Slope now has all the charm of a failing midwest mall with it's look-alike coffee shops and yoga/pilate barns where the "trying to be arch parents" parade their latest status symbols including their spawn and pets.
I long for the old days when the BABYMAKERS made their babies in the suburbs. That IS what the suburbs are for RIGHT? Take your boring rich asses somewhere where you won't get in everyone else's way.
I want to have a baby with math because we would leave our child in its stroller patiently waitint (or being unnoticably kidnapped), on 7th avenue, WHERE IT BELONGS, if we were inclined to peruse through the cheesy and gauche aisles of barnes and noble, one of the least necessary additions to park slope, let alone any neighborhood outside of union square.
since the weak middle class parents of park slope are finally acknowledging the level of crime and threat of black people in the city blogs, perhaps they will retreat back to their more fitting westchester and fairfield environments so that i can return and pay what i used to.
Reading this makes me SO glad I fucking left. Must say we didn't look back. Have fun!