Gothamist: Fast Track to Hell: Stealing From a Church on Christmas

fre sghyu

Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:25:50 -0500

why the fuck would someone steal

Shades

Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:45:37 -0500

To Kitty, well said. Just need to comment on this one line by Thozz "In fact they believe we should abandon the idea of church and replace it with values set to destroy the foundations of this country so they can build a new country based on lust, drugs, and general immoral behavior." Since when has CHURCH been the fondation of this country? As for lust, drugs and general immoral behavior? Who are you to decide, or anyone for that matter what is considered immoral. I do not touch drugs, so I guess you can go stereotype a tad more. As for lust.... most people have it, the honest ones admit it. However I would also like to know what makes you the self proclaimed REAL AMERICAN. As for being clueless about the truth, truth is very subjective. You sit here and preach, yet in the same breath, you sterotype, you condemn, you judge. I agree with Kitty, only I'll state it plain and simple. You don't merely have issues, you have subscriptions. You suffer from a delusional point of view. One not shared by nearly as many as you may believe. Most likely they don;t argue, just praying that you will STFU.

Kitty

Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:45:18 -0500

To Thozz: They know and comment about the terrible things, (sort of), in dealing with the organized church, but ignore the plethora of wonderful things the church has done for millions of people. As long as the people in need go to church on Sunday and convert to Christianity.... Most of what the church does "is" God's will... but churches are run by mortal men, not God himself. All we can do is to try our best, but the athiests and many liberals believe we shouldn't try at all. It's God's will to help fellow Christians and not the Heathens? I think this is my real issue with many church organizations that are designed to help people. They frequently will only help once that person has accepted Jesus into their heart. Somehow, many of the people in the church have lost sight of the "love thy neighbor" idea unless we have the word Christian interjected prior to neighbor. I think that many "Christian values" in and of themselves are corrupt, but I also don't blame your God. I blame the corruption that the men of the churches create. In fact they believe we should abandon the idea of church and replace it with values set to destroy the foundations of this country so they can build a new country based on lust, drugs, and general immoral behavior. Not all non-Christians use drugs contrary to your belief. I definitely don't, while I remember teen years spent in the rectory watching the monks and priests get sauced. I'd love to know what constitutes 'general immoral behavior.' What happened to hate the sin and not the sinner? Maybe you, yourself, are a good example of only "mostly" doing God's will.... These are sad days for real Americans. What qualifies one as a real American? I thought one of the founding American values was the ability to express your opinions against someone such as a king freely. Or is it a conservative who goes to church on Sunday? I'd appreciate it if you qualified your statement. And yes, I'm a real American. I have piercings, tattoos, am pagan, bisexual, and I live in sin. Oh, and I'm not white. I'm Chippewa & Ottawa. I don't support the war and would love to see our troops home. I think all offenders should be punished no matter their religion and that some of the laws we have on the books cater pointlessly to protect sophmoric people from themselves. So, take your 'real American' self and sit a bit to contemplate what you really mean after maybe listening to some of the words your very own God handed down to you. It sounds like you yourself need to look at your own corruption because it sounds like you are corrupting your own God's ideals.

Kitty

Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:28:00 -0500

To Doma: Now thats funny. because most atheists are such because of the media. the media is spoon feeding lies, because most scientists believe in creation. Do you have the numbers to back this up as I'd like to see the study? It would be an interesting basis for an article.

Thozz

Thu, 28 Dec 2006 03:30:36 -0500

It's interseting and very disturbing to see so many take the side of the thieves and against Christian values and traditions. Morals such as these can only lead to the downfal and destruction of our country (in the long run?), but then again, maybe the liberals believe they can create an athiest state government to counter the rest of the civilized worlds belief in a higher power. The sad part is, just by reading the comments of these pseudo liberals, you can tell they are clueless about the truth. They know and comment about the terrible things, (sort of), in dealing with the organized church, but ignore the plethora of wonderful things the church has done for millions of people. But, the biggest mistake they're making is by believing whatever the church does is God's will. Most of what the church does "is" God's will... but churches are run by mortal men, not God himself. All we can do is to try our best, but the athiests and many liberals believe we shouldn't try at all. In fact they believe we should abandon the idea of church and replace it with values set to destroy the foundations of this country so they can build a new country based on lust, drugs, and general immoral behavior. They want to take us out of the frying pan and put us in the fire. These are very dangerous motives that will see the destruction of the church and the country, and give more power to the Islamist extremists and athiest hatemongers of the world. I noticed how quickly they are to want to forgive criminal behavior that takes place outside the church, while anyone within the church that committs a crime should be punished as they see fit, which includes punishment even more harsh than that which we see murderers, rapists, and drug users recieve. This attitude is a recipe for our destruction, and they milk it daily. These are sad days for real Americans.

Doma

Thu, 28 Dec 2006 00:43:20 -0500

quote: Did this study also explain how so many church officials got away with molesting children for years? Since they obviosly have someone watching them. reply: It did not, while most of these allegations are against the catholic church, but not all. This does not have to do with religion, it has to do with mankind. Christians are still men, and still possess sin nature until Jesus gives them a new body. And obviously you are in the dark because many of these persons molested against were altar boys and were alone with the priests and the community and familes in many cases did not know until the abused person came forward. However, such ministers should be disciplined. When Saint Paul found out that a chrisian was sleeping with his fathers wife, he relased that man to satan, so that in his suffering he would eventually repent. Unfortunately today's church lacks alot of disipline. ------------- quote: Keep Believing what you're spoon fed. Oh by the way, I'm selling a bridge, any interest? lol reply: Now thats funny. because most atheists are such because of the media. the media is spoon feeding lies, because most scientists believe in creation.

jack

Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:30:01 -0500

now the good christians are wishing people to hell.. what happened to love and forgiveness? oh wait, i forgot. chritian = hypocrite. why is stealing from a church any worse than stealing from anybody else? stealiing is stealing. i mean really the church stole it to begin with....

GaryK

Wed, 27 Dec 2006 06:43:16 -0500

So, who knows these guys are going to hell? The conscience is a funny thing -- it might step in. Stealing money may be bad, but giving it is definitely good for for the soul. You are wondering if the use is worthy enough to warrant the giving. Good thing that's not how we are blessed (or "paid," if that is your view). In these regards, we're right there with the guys in the SUV.

The Right One

Wed, 27 Dec 2006 01:22:29 -0500

Shades: You know yourself that those cases are rare. They happen hundreds of times more in the secular world than the religious world... Megabyte: How does the Church getting money tax-free make it evil? No organization can exist without resources, and no one that knew what they were saying ever said money was evil. Everyone: The priest never said he didn't pity them because they were going to hell. He probably wasn't sorry for the people themselves, as a lot of times, robbers steal to get money for their poor families.

Taylor

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:00:00 -0500

Meanwhile, 2000+ troops and 500,000+ Iraqis dead.

John Lee

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 20:55:42 -0500

In some religions, something like this (i.e., anything that harms Christians and/or Jews) is supposed to guarantee you a ticket to paradise w/ 72 virgins.

Shades

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:53:59 -0500

"If a church was not funding a charity and said they were, the church board or its members would know." Did this study also explain how so many church officials got away with molesting children for years? Since they obviosly have someone watching them. Keep Believing what you're spoon fed. Oh by the way, I'm selling a bridge, any interest? lol PS Sorry about that armchair. Did not realize they toss the name below the post ;)

Doma

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:23:18 -0500

quote: ..I agree I doubt the money was going anyplace "needy". ... If so then why are they always asking for it reply: A new study came out recently and has been discovered that its the conservatives and not liberals (altho there are liberal churches) that give more to charity. If a church was not funding a charity and said they were, the church board or its members would know. Often a representative of the charity comes once a year, such as a missionary to visit the church and thank them for their help and may ask for more help. The reason they ask for money is because the Bible tells them (christians) to give to the church and the needy.

THOZZ

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:18:45 -0500

There's no excuse for theft. Whether you dislike Christians or not. To many politicaly correct liberals will sympathize with the criminals and "their" rights, and condemn the pastor for "not being Christian like"......unbelievable.

Megabyte

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:12:57 -0500

To: Robert Quote: "The message is not that money is evil, it's that covetousness, greed, and corruption lead to injustice and suffering." Tell that to the entity (the Church) that collects millions of dollars every year tax-free, and tell me who's greedy? On another very-loosely related note... I'm not advocating stealing from the church, as a lot of them do plenty to help the community, but a church "in a neighborhood of well-kept brick houses with trimmed shrubbery", "the kind of place you could leave your side door open and not worry" likely has enough money to survive, and is not going to go bankrupt over $20k. The pastor HAS to say something like that to keep up appearances. There's no way the spokesperson for the church can say "eh, It's not a big deal. We'll survive. We have plenty of money..." There's some unwritten rule that any story like this has to gather sympathy for the wronged person or entity.

armchair_warrior

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:58:58 -0500

shades its not me its the guy below me :p.

Shades

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:59:52 -0500

To armchair_warrior Thanks for the clarification, as I said not religous myself, so was going on information relayed to me. Not that I hold anything against people that are religous, to each their own. As long as they don't try to convert me, I won't put down the views they have.

Rishi Desai

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:22:50 -0500

There is no question of intent here, and a "true" christian or not, this is a great setback. Whether this was a church or an AIDS drive, or even a store, these men were unwise to harm the community in which they probably live.

Robert

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:16:28 -0500

To: Shades It's not "Money is the root of all evil." It's "The love of money is the root of all evil." I'm not saying many religious institutions are not corrupted by financial considerations, but no institution can exist without means and resources. For example, you can't feed the hungry, or whatever work you think is 'good', without resources. The message is not that money is evil, it's that covetousness, greed, and corruption lead to injustice and suffering.

armchair_warrior

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:55:39 -0500

than again not alot of them read newspapers.

armchair_warrior

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:52:53 -0500

I'm surprise they didn't do this more often and earlier! it has more money than convenience stores and most of them don't have arm clerks or camera's.

Shades

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:06:22 -0500

Meh, I agree I doubt the money was going anyplace "needy". Granted I'm not religous, however I have heard the churches claim "Money is the root of all evil", A) If so then why are they always asking for it B) The pastor should be thanking the thieves for taking the evil out of the church. I also agree with horsewhipping the thieves though, as I said I'm not religous.

ep

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 11:02:44 -0500

"Needy Children" -- I doubt a $1 was intended for anyone needy.

nisey79

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:46:24 -0500

I'm curious as to the Vermont plates on the vehicle belonging to a NYC resident.

carolitajohnson

Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:25:12 -0500

A true Christian would feel pity for any soul going to Hell, whether in a Lincoln Navigator or a rusty 77 Volkswagon bug. I wouldn't expect much from an ordinary person, but a pastor is supposed to exemplify Christian ideals of forgiveness and compassion in the face of one's enemy. Or so I've heard! (Personally, I'd horsewhip the thieves, but that's why I'm not a pastor of a church).