Forget the Ni Hao Ma's, It's John Liu Vs. Rosie O'Donnell

Asian trifecta? Hmm, we'll see, but Chinese New Year is not for a very long time.

(sigh) I was trying to beat the John Liu Bashers too...

Rosie offended lots of people with that BS. Would it make people feel better if it was Ming-Na Wen or Lucy Liu speaking out? How about Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao or Former Governor Gary F. Locke?

Because obviously she was only ridiculing the Chinese people and not actually commenting on the absurdity of Danny Devito's appearance on the View being blown completely out of proportion.

Context, people: it works wonders when you're trying to understand a situation.

if rosie had done it using a "zany" french or british accent, no one would have cried racism. why is it only racist if you imitate a chinese person, yet not someone from, say, germany?

i honestly have been wondering this for years. can someone please enlighten me?

john liu must have a LOT of time on his hands. if he were my councilman, i would be pissed that he spends his time trying to get his name in the paper rather than doing his job. i can't stand him playing the race card when it so is NOT racism. then next time when it really is, no one will listen. lame.

Rosie of all of them should have known better. She's a member of a minority that gets discriminated against. How would she like it if one of the other View women had done a tirade using lesbian stereotypes?

So when John Liu becomes offended by an obviously ignorant racist gesture, he's supposed to keep his mouth shut and take it like a good little subservient minority?

Yeah, okay.

Truth of the matter is, every race should be outraged at idiocy like this. It's telling that so many people take it trivially, indicating that, yes, racist attitudes still prevail with a lot of people, including minorities.

rosie is ugly

#8

Since when are French, Germans English or Americans different races? I thought they're all caucacians.

I too, am looking forward to thier reply.
No excuse for this. I'm glad The honorable councilman John Liu is looking out for EVERYONE.
Liu for mayor.

But to most people, that is exactly what they make of the Chinese language when they hear it. She just thought out loud.

but don't you think she's helping to perpetuate it by saying it on television?

Me no rikee Joh Liu. Liu is a grandstanding idiot.
WTF does this have to do with the City of New York???
He represents all the constituents of his district, not just the Chinese, and should concern himself with matters taking place in the City Council.

Why doesn't he tell Chinese shop owners to stop dumping garbage in the street and Chinese people to stop shoving their way onto subway cars?

John Liu referred to Rosie as an "experienced journalist?" Really?!! That's a stretch of the imagination.

Anyway, Rosie is certainly quick to take offense at any real (or imagined) slight directed towards homosexuals. So it's somewhat hypocritical of her to not show the same sensitivity towards other minorities.

How come when a non-white comedian does an impression of a white guy it isn’t considered news or racist?

Also, why do the chinese feel that its ok to spit and fart and pick their nose wherever they want? They should be reminded that they arent in the 3rd world anymore.

Sorry to say but Gawker has much more funnier and insightful comments. This must be where Craigslisters go after they get an IP ban.

why don't you stop generalizing asshole?

"if rosie had done it using a "zany" french or british accent, no one would have cried racism. why is it only racist if you imitate a chinese person, yet not someone from, say, germany?"

Right, I see Asians mocking Germans and French on TV constantly.

forget about what rosie says, theres a lot of funny comments by people here. Kinda makes me feel uncomortable. Says more about society then some tv stars stupid comments...

No other race spits, farts and picks their noses in public like the chinese. They have the bad manners sewn up! Sorry to offend you and your ancestors.

"But don't you think she's helping to perpetuate it by saying it on television?"

True, but its hard for anyone to take Rosie O'Donnell seriously. At least from where I stand anyway. As a matter of fact, anyone who watches the View on a regular basis should have their heads examined.

i love how stories like these give dumb white ppl an excuse to pull out all their chinese jokes from the elementary school archives...

bradley-

it's all thanks to the anonymity of the internet. none of these assholes would have the balls to say any of it to my or anyone else's asian face.

That's why I love new technology.
The Asians have been putting voice recorders in all their MP3 players for a while now.
Technology is the great equalizer, then comes the law suit.
And, NYS law says only one person needs to be notified when recording. You don't need the other person's permission.
How great is that?!

everytime i was beaten by white,black ,and hispanic kids. it was always with these type of taunts. it sucked when i was the only asian living in the area in my parts of nyc. I'm glad there is some speaking for asians.

Comments like these is what makes me hate being chinese ever since I was a little kid.

Actually, you can remove the eyelid fold:

http://blog.wired.com/biotech/2006/12/caucasian_eye_f.html

Cmon, give Rosie a break. Its not like any chinese watch the View. They are all either gambling or playing the violin.

I know people who have had that surgery eyelid fold, but they had seriously covered eyes, where it actually impeded their vision. I don't think women or men who get the surgery look any less Asian though.

i guess you don't need to go to the flyover states to find ignorant racist a-holes when you can find them here in good old NYC - shame on you.

I can understand why this mockery of the language can be taken as offensive. At the same time, I honestly think that the posters asking why it's okay to mock other (Caucasian) languages/cultures pose relevant questions. I posed a similar question about Dave Chappelle a few weeks ago and I'm sure it got a few eye-rolls from self-hating liberals and minorities alike. (For the record, I'm liberal but not to the point where I forego my identity or put aside entirely my own self interests).

We have some extremely fucked up double standards in terms of what is considered 'acceptable' humor. It's either all fair game, or none of it ought to be.

And again we'll give you the same answer.
Chappelle makes fun of whites AND blacks. did you see the "white people can't dance" skit with John Mayer?
White people CAN dance, only it's to the electric guitar, Hispanics dance to the electric piano and some spanish giberish and black people dance to drums.

anonymass---

I think the 'double standard' issue can be best resolved this way: White people benefit from racism while Chinese people (and other 'minorities') are shut out by it. It's just a fact that current American culture rewards white skin. So while you might complain that Chappelle's jokes about White people cross the line, the 'same' jokes about other groups are legitimately threatening.

Really?

I'm sure Italian-Americans don't really appreciate the whole mob/guido stereotype. Maybe that's threatening to some kid trying to get into law school who is fighing whatever assumptions people have because it's perfectly okay to perpetuate those stereotypes (by people like you). Just an example.

And please tell me how it's "legitimately threatening" to paint one's face black when it's not to paint one's face white. I honestly don't understand your reasoning. It's based on emotion and not well-thought-out logic.

Lasty, assuming your point is true - which I don't agree is the case - at what point does it become 'threatening' to whites? I believe I remember reading not long ago that Caucasians are no longer the majority in New York (I could be wrong about that). Does that change things? Or are you basing your opinions on some subjective 'financial power' measure?

Let's assume that birth rates continue along the same lines - in 30 or 40 years, after we as a society have allowed this imbalance in what is 'acceptable' in terms of lampooning/ridiculing/stereotyping and when whites might actually be a minority - might we look back and say "hey, maybe that wasn't so harmless after all"?

jeez not again, anonymass.
to paraphrase your idol chris rock, there ain't no white person willing to switch places with him, AND he's Rich!
What do you think that means? What makes you think in your heart of hearts that you have been "victimized" or "short changed" for anything?

Stereotypes of all types are harmful, even the 'positive stereotypes' like those that say that all Asian-Americans are good at math. They reduce individuals to caricatures.

Institutional racism is extremely damaging to much of America's population, but at the same time it benefits those who fit into the right categories. Recognizing this is not being 'self-hating'; rather it is called being aware of one's place in society. Of course it goes without saying that this phenomenon is very well documented in sociological and related literature. A good starting point might by Beverly Tatum's book, "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria?"

Rosie O'Donnell's comments might seem pretty inane, but they are representative of a much larger system of racism in America. (and some thought will show that a 'role reversal' is virtually unimaginable in current society---those in power naturally want to stay in power)

Get this through your thick skulls crackers. Making fun of french or english accents has nothing to do with the this pig's RACIST behavior.

1. making those "ching chong" noises is not making fun of an *accent*. it is making fun of an entire *language* of a race of people. this ching chong mocking has been used to denigrate Asian people in general by crackers *as* racist and derrogatory and it is RACIST! You cannot separate a word's meaning from its history in use.

2. she is a cracker herself. it's not as racist if the person of teh same race makes fun of a group belonging to the same race. so even if she did make fun of english or whatever, as long as they are crackers, and she's a cracker, then it's not as offensive.

3. A better analogy is if she had made "oogah boogah" noises at a African American. That is a noise that has been used to denigrate an entire RACE of people (Black people) in general and it IS RACIST. but the fat silverback cracker bulldyke would never do that cause she's a coward like any cracker racist. she'd be fired and ostricized if that ever happened.

this person is a dispecable hypocrit and an ugly pig and a racist. she gives queers a bad name and gives peopel reason to gay bash.

You chinamen need to relax. Play some blackjack, spit on the sidewalk. You'll feel better.

I work P/T weekends (for past 3 yrs) as a Night Auditor in a hotel in Philly and we mostly have wedding guests staying on during weekends. We have hosted guests of pretty much all ethnic groups, mostly whites (anglo, irish, italian, etc. ), some blacks, some asians, some hispanic etc. I was born in India and tho not a Muslim (born Hindu but atheist) I get taunted with Osama/terrorist jokes all the time. Our hotel hosted the worst group of all - an Asian American group mostly all Chinese at our hotel - just this weekend Dec 9th. While I was just doing my front-desk duties these Chinese made racist terrorist and anti-muslim jokes, for no reason,stole from the hotel store and pretty much destroyed some rooms in the hotel. The chinese who are ranting/raving here should look in your own hearts. I am personally of the opinion that Chinese are the most racist (just go to China) and deserve to made fun of.

NY, You are right. My bad. But those chinese dudes really spoiled my weekend when I am just trying to make few extra bucks. I am still fuming at them. But I guess I should just forgive them and move on. Actually forgiveness is more healing if you feel hurt by something. And that goes for all chinese here who are pissed off at Rosie.

Reading the comments here I have been simultaneously saddened, disturbed and amused. One would think we all live in strictly racially-defined ghettos, engaged in a zero-sum war for sociopolitical dominance. Reality is much more messy, and much more beautiful.

Nonwhites in America have plenty of reason to have developed thin skins, but that doesn't mean their skins aren't overly thin. Whites too readily whine about double-standards, but that doesn't mean the double standards are fair or logical.

O'Donnell's comments were ignorant, obnoxious and unfunny, but that doesn't make them racist. Offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find capri pants offensive. But her public self-hazing by making moronic remarks about a country does not necessarily convey racism towards people originally from that country. Maybe she secretly does hate the Chinese, but there was nothing in her embarassingly dumb joke to convey that.

What the poster named Robby encountered was genuine racism. Mistaking a South Asian for an Arab is idiotic, if not necessarily racist. Stereotyping either as a terrorist is completely racist, whether done by a white, a black, a latino, an Asian, or another Arab or South Asian.

As an Asian child growing up in a mostly white area (ironically, the town next to where Rosie grew up), I encountered some of that Ching-Chong nonsense and the Kung-Fu noises, and it did hurt. How would you like it if people you didn't know went up to you and made fun of the way you looked? Plus, it was offensive on multiple levels:

#1, I was born in this country and only speak English. I did not like being treated like a foreigner when I grew up just like they did.

#2, I am not even Chinese! I am Filipino and that language sounds nothing like Chinese, and I hate when people lump all Asian races together.

I don't experience much racial taunting anymore as an adult. I would like to think it is because we are all mature adults now, but I think it is because somehow I look less Asian than I did as a child... most people can't even tell what my race is now (I've been mistaken for ALL races), and I kind of like it that way. Because my race shouldn't matter in the first place.

John Liu for Mayor,
Don't stop till you got them on their knees, where's the response from ABC?

All of this is a PERFECT example of how people make something out of nothing. I'm of Polish and Irish decent and I've been to comedy clubs where the acts have made jokes about both of those nationalities. Was I offended??? Of course not! It's humor!! There's far too much seriousness in this world. Does anyone get fired up when Joy makes jokes about Jews????? Rosie wasn't even making fun of Chinese people. Good Lord!

Boonmee, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Good summary. The only thing I'd add is that in addition to venue, intention goes a long way. It's usually obvious when someone is - as the British would say - "taking the piss" versus something along the lines of what Michael Richards did, which was just horrible and full of hatred (and of course not funny whatsoever).

Still, even having stated those qualifiers, I still find the double standards worthy of questioning.

What Rosie O'Donnell did from "The View" was beyond than stupid and ignorance, and she is a dirty racist. Rosie should make apology ASAP or get fired.

There appears to be two very distinct sides to this argument. I would have to say, however, that what Rosie did was indeed racist and she should be consequentally dealt with in a harsh manner. "What is the big deal" is what some of you ask. The big deal is that her racist epithet was rude and unnecessary. It represented years and years of negative sentiments towards people of all Asian races, not necessarily just Chinese people. It was immature, to say the least, and reminiscent of elementary school playgrounds. Seriously Rosie, grow up. It is not just the actual words she used, but the meaning behind it. As another point, she was not merely "imitating an accent" as she herself has said. Even if she was imitating an accent, it would not be nearly as offensive, and NO not because of the double standard, but because an accent is one's attempt to sound like someone from another country, like England or Australia. People imitate these accents because they think it sounds "cool" and it is desirable to sound different. What Rosie did was NOT this. What she did was mock an entire language without any attempt whatsoever to sound correct. These were not attempts at learning a new language. She was not carefully trying to speak Chinese. She was throwing out ridiculously juvenile chants similar to what an 8 year old might. I personally feel that Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese alike) is a beautiful language. I also feel that racist epithets such as Rosie's serves to degrade my language and the language of my people. And yes, my point of view is biased because I am Chinese, but from a non-cultural standpoint, at the very least, it was not funny. Many of you also feel that council member John Liu should not be dealing with this matter, for whatever reason. I, however, feel that he is completely justified in doing what he is doing and am proud that he has stepped up to represent Asian people and minorities alike, all over the country and the world. Someone has to. Wouldn't it be disconcerting if he WASN'T offended? Whether this is a political issue to him or not, it is an issue that must be addressed. It is rather disturbing that not more people are shocked by Rosie's actions. You do not have to be Asian in this issue to see that it is racist and unnecessary. If any given person cannot recognize racism towards any group, we have a lot more trouble on our hands than we thought. This issue is so much more. It is not even Rosie vs. Asian people. It is racism vs. the world. Can anybody see that?

"if rosie had done it using a "zany" french or british accent, no one would have cried racism. why is it only racist if you imitate a chinese person, yet not someone from, say, germany?"

good question. i don't know. why don't you ask the white people of english/french/german/irish/russian descent who mock the english/french/german/irish/russian accent if they ever received any hate mail from offended english/french/german/irish/russian descents.

I think the thing that is offensive, is not that she is doing a poor imitation of a chinese accent, but that she repeatedly uses the word "ching chong" which has long been a racial slur.

Look it up. No wonder it hits a raw nerve.

To all you non-Asians - specifically the caucasians - who are complaining about the double standard:

You have to stop talking as if we live in some sort of a utopia. There is a double standard within racial jokes and comedy because, frankly, there is a double standard in society with whites and minorities. If you deny this, you are blind.

When whites are made fun of, it is much easier for them to shrug it off because they are the MAJORITY. Even if "white stereotypes" are being pulled, there are plenty of white people in the media, politics, sports, EVERYWHERE to prove that they aren't always true. The same cannot be said for certain minorities.

Case in point: Asian Americans. Despite being the fastest growing minority group in the US, we are still a small one - and severely underrepresented in all aspects. If we are stereotyped or marginalized in any way, people subconsciously accept these stereotypes or images. There aren't Asian Americans EVERYWHERE like there are whites.

Therefore, you cannot expect people to give caucasians the same sort of racial "protection" as minorities receive, because caucasians NEVER need it in the real world. White people own the world, practically. To deny your own advantage would be foolish.

100th Post!

whenever I read comments about race on this site, i feel like I am dealing with a bunch of dumbasses.

here! here! to all of you who are speaking out and speaking up about Rosie's racist jargon. Thank you! It's long overdue that we have a discourse on this social injustice that we've been attacked with, since the 1800's, long before the Chinese exclusion act of 1882.
Unfortunately, not much has changed for us, we still face the same ignorance and prejudices our ancestors who came before us have faced. They were not treated as equally as the other settlers of their time, and no matter how much they contributed to society, their taxes provided more than 50% of california's total revenue, they were the only immigrants who were taxed so heavily, then what were they slapped with? their homes they built were burnt down, their businesses burnt down and forced to live a lonely existence after the Chinese Exclusion Act stopped allowing their wives and kids to join them.
The men who weren't married and didn't have kids, died childless and alone. This is what happened to my friend's grand mother's great great great...(and so on) grand father's friend. My friend's family were one of the few fortunate ones who already had their wife and/or kids here. She was told their story, and I wished that more people knew these true stories in our American history.
We are still treated as second class citizens the same way our ancestors were treated, even after 200 yrs.! the exact same way, like we don't belong here, as if we are less American, less worthy, less human...
Obviously, 200 yrs of keeping quiet, being respectful, kind, obedient, non confrontational, and treating people the way we want to be treated hasn't done us any good, so it's time to speak up, stop biting our tongue, be angry, give as much as we receive, and treat others the way we are treated (not vice versa for a change).
Lets stop being so respectful if the other person hasn't given the same, be loud, give what you get, get upset when someone commits hate and disrespect you. Don't give up until we are given equal treatment and respect.
Silence does equal death. No one will care, and wont know, and will continue to treat us unfairly if we allow them to by doing nothing and saying nothing. Fight back, yell back, complain, confront them , otherwise others will continue to consider us weak and walk all over us.
Teach your kids to always stand up for themselves, listen to your kids, be open with them, never limit their potential, make them fearless, and always have faith in them. Each one of us are responsible to do something, we can promote change for the better, we are each only 1 person, but each one of us can add up to millions and make a huge difference that could last a lifetime for our future and the future of our kids and our kid's kids, and for the rest of humanity.
The brave supporters who marched, protested and/or fought back with the Great Martin Luther King, and Gandhi did, and each one of those millions of people were just 1 person; imagine if they said they couldn't make a difference? Lets learn from them, don't EVER give up, there can be a better tomorrow for all of us if you keep at it, until it stops and changes for the better COMPLETELY, DON'T accept anything less, we would be foolish to.
Teach our kids the complete American history we weren't taught, and tell them about the unsung heroes who came before us and risked their lives to help build America, who never were justly compensated for their hard labor, devotion, knowledge and loyalty. But instead, lost their lives, others lost their homes, businesses, and/or families or never even had the opportunity to have a family at all. This is their story, and one of our history.

The "View" these days is narrow minded and a big joke masquerading as a open minded, diverse perspective talk show.
First they got rid of Lisa Ling, then Star Jones, and now they only have 4 ignorant women left, with the occasional token guest minority to sit in and co-host the show, whom they barely ever allow to speak on the show. Am i the only one who sees this?
I'm going to write to ABC's advertisers and have them pull ads and money away from this network and the show. Any network or show that allows for this kind of stupity and ignorance to persist doesn't deserve any of our money, patronage or respect. I urge all of you to do the same, get them where it counts, so they will listen. Money speaks to the networks, and if they lose advertisers/ big accounts they will finally care to do something to stop this discrimination.
Who will be "The View's" if we can even call it that any more, next token minority co-host? Did you think we wouldn't notice? We are not all stupid as you think ABC, producers of the "View". they throw 1 in so that the show won't be considered racist or narrow minded. The show should really be called "3 narrow minded ignorant women's view", that's more accurate!
Lisa, Star and Meredith were the only ones that were interesting, smart, decent and non- haters on the show. They got rid of 2 of them and 1 had the smarts to move up in the business and leave on her own while she was ahead.
I have loss all respect for Barbara W., what were you thinking? What have you stooped to? We obviously had you pegged wrong.
Is it just me, or does other people think Joy, Rosie, Elizabeth and Barbara have the most annoying voices? they are all so squeeky and/or whinny, just my observation. watch them try to sound less squeeky after they read this posting. how can anyone even understand what they are muttering after all that chirping noises out their mouths? they need to give themselves a reality check before making fun of anyone else.
I've already stopped watching the show, it's pathetic and so are they, too cowardly to even give a genuine full apology and donate money to a charitable organization of our choosing that reaches out to our Asian American community that is so vastly neglected and under-funded. That's a good start.

what do you call a racist black person? nigger
what do you call a racist hispanic person? spic
what do you call a racist asian person? chink
what do you call a racist white person? nazi

what does a spic/nigger call an asian person? chinese
what does a spic/nigger call a white person? whitie, sometimes redneck/cracker
what does a chink call a black/hispanic person? a monkey
what does a nazi call a black/hispanic person? a monkey, sometimes niggers/spics

by the way in nyc, there're far more spics and niggers than chinks and nazis on the streets. and blacks and hispanics always deny that there are. it makes me giggle.

have a nice day :)

These guys wrote a great song about Rosie's ching-chong activities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywgxa5ORyIU

Great stuff!!!

The problem isn't that she made the whole stupid ching chong joke, but that she went ape-shit over Kelly Ripa's joke when Clay Aiken tried to cover her mouth. So explain to me how Kelly Ripa is homophobic, but Rosie, well, that's just her sense of humor?