The Glaser Conundrum, Continued

2006_12_babyboom.jpgEarlier this week, we reported on the 92nd Street Y event where New York magazine co-founder Milton Glaser attributed the low number of high-profile female designers to the fact that women who have children and stay at home with them are less visible professionally.

First, some clarification (for The NY Times’ Tom Zeller, Jr. ): the comment came during the Q&A session following lectures by Glaser, Chip Kidd and Dave Eggers. An audience member asked why there are so few female rock-star designers.

Here is Glaser’s complete response (per our taped version):


I think there's a real reason for it and I don't think it's structural. The reason is that women get pregnant, have children, go home and take care of their children and those essential years that men are building their careers and becoming visible are basically denied to women who choose to be at home.

I don’t know how to overcome this issue because there is no substitute for a mother raising her child and I think mothers suffer because of this if their objective is to have a big career because in the middle of the time when they should be building their career, being in the world and being visible, they are at home taking care of the kid. Unless something very dramatic happens to the nature of the human experience, then it’s never going to change.

The real question is why have they not ascended to the privileged areas that men do and I do think, fundamentally, it’s because the opportunity for this is denied because they’ve made a choice in their life about having a family and raising that family. There are all kinds of ways of working around that issue, day care and nannys, [but] none of them are good solutions.

No one can deny that women who choose to stay at home with their children are making a decision that inevitably extracts time from building their careers - and that it's a decision many mothers wholeheartedly embrace. But Glaser’s comments hit a nerve because it brings back the not-so-age-old argument regarding child-rearing.

Of course, there’s no such thing as a mother substitute. But it’s the “either/or” construction that frazzles us over here at Gothamist. Sure, men have similar pressures: if they want to spend more time with their families, then they may suffer climbing-the-corporate-ladder consequences. Partner-track lawyers, for example, don't expect to be home for family dinners five nights - or even one night - a week.

But the pressures are so much more poignant for women who, yes, play a certain role in the human experience. Big career vs. big family. Stay-at-home Mom vs. Work-outside-the-home Mom. Tea Lounge sing-alongs vs. Midtown power breakfasts.

2006_12_lynette.jpgEggers voiced the alternative, a half-time arrangement between spouses. Of course, his wife is a novelist, a job description that requires long bouts of alone (not cubicle) office time. That said, because of the arrangement, it means that being a mom isn’t the sacrifice it could be if there were no arrangement at all.

Glaser's comments are off-putting because they ignore the women who establish their careers before they have children, the women who don't have children, the women who have husbands like Eggers who share child-care responsibilities and the women who think day care and nannies are adequate solutions (even if others disagree).

They also neatly sidestep the less-pervasive-but-still-existing reality of being high-profile and female in many professions. Hint: it's still not exactly the norm.

Um, we better go get some Advil now.

In 1987 (!) film Baby Boom, Diane Keaton's JC Wiatt had to leave the corporate rat race and escape to Vermont (though she did become an entrepreneur). Today, as portrayed in Desperate Housewives, Felicity Huffman's Lynette Scavo leaves her high-powered job to raise her kids (which sort of looks like it sucked), but then goes back to work as hilarious as well as realistic antics ensue

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Nanny's and Childcare are fine substitutes if you feel your child is a commodity.

If you don't have time for a child, or if your career is more important to you than having a child, don't have one.

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I am not really surprised. Milton Glaser is 77 years old or something. Its just a different generation. My dad who is about to be 76 would probably say the same thing. Can't teach an old dog new tricks :(

This comment also brings up a structural problem in higher education. Half or more of grad school students are women. In the Law, Medicine and the hard science the women that come out of those professional schools are very likely to be half time doctors and lawyers and Engineers. Society dumps a lot of resources into individuals that become housewives with JD's MBA's & MD's. This is not only inefficient, but also keeps out qualified (male) candidates that would be full time doctors, lawyers, ect. Male professionals work until they retire. End of story. Women move in and out of the workforce at their leisure and expect the same treatment as men. This would be a step above equality.
I, personally, am not going to marry a woman on the partner track at a firm. I don't want my child’s first steps witnessed by the nanny. Additionally, I'd work 80hrs a week with peace of mind if I knew that my wife was there for our children and our family. That, however, is no longer likely. Marriage has ceased to be a partnership that produces children. It has become a monument to self gratification.

O brave new world.

Bonnie Fuller.
but who am I to judge, it appears female CEO's ruin corps as much as male CEO's.

So what's your answer, don't believe? Don't let women into graduate programs? You make it sound as if it is an easy choice for women to drop out of the workplace when they have a child. In fact, it is often an agonizing choice.

It is true that it is inefficient to have women go to grad school and then leave the workplace. The National Academy of Sciences has recently published a series of reports on how women are leaving the sciences as their careers advance.

I'm as frustrated as Gothamist at the "either/or" mindset that your comment typifies. I can't speak to the law or business fields, but in the sciences we as a society need all the bright people we can get.

Solving the problem involves more than just making it more acceptable for women to move in and out of the workplace without becoming second-class employees. It is telling that you wrote "I don't want my child’s first steps witnessed by the nanny." as it doesn't even occur to you that the father could also move in and out of the workplace to raise their child. Until we as a society value the contributions of both mother and father to the raising of children and to the workplace this problem isn't going to be solved.

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it may be inefficient for people with advanced degrees to raise children (presumably they don't generally have a masters in babyology) but individual choice is a messy, messy thing.

nobody's really talking about that maybe women just aren't as interested in putting up with jumping through all the hoops and putting up with all the BS that gets you to 'celebrity' designer status. i know we all want to think your work is enough to stand on its own, but let's face it, there's a lot more to it than that. not being so ego-driven as men could have something to do with why there are fewer female superstars.

Nobody's ignoring all the categories of women you mention. But in the end, the number of women who fall into those categories is less -- somewhat -- than the number of men who are able to devote full time to their career. Assuming equal average aptitude and talent, if you start with a smaller number of women who choose to concentrate solely on their careers, you're going to end up with fewer superstars.

There are certainly other factors, but this is one of them.

I suggest that everybody go back, calm down, focus, and read the question and Glaser's answer to the question asked.

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