Gothamist: Brooklyn Child Killed By Truck Full of Caskets

ian

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:04:42 -0500

cgee: I don't think there is negligence mens rea in manslaughter... Criminally negligent homicide should do the trick...that will only get him 1.5-4 years

Shmurf

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 08:41:02 -0500

Throw the fucking book at this bastard ! I read about that and it appears the driver ran a redlight and hit the kid . No excuses, Throw this guy in jail for the rest of his life !

aed

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:43:10 -0500

Once again a driver breaks the law, kills someone in the process and then let go with no charges. A city tow truck kills a cyclist, a woman talking on her cellphone hits a pedestrian and walks away with no charges and now this. Vehicles have carte blanche in this city - they can park anywhere, cause gridlock, speed, kill pedestrians and nothing is done. I can't believe this!!

an Adirondacker

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:02:08 -0500

(to continue above) Sometimes the only way to get people to adjust their actions is by throwing people like this in jail for a good long time.

an Adirondacker

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:00:59 -0500

Quote: "Even if the driver is not charged or serves jailtime for this--and I believe he should-- his own conscience will keep in 'jail' til he dies." I know this gets tossed around every other "needless death" posting, but why do people assume he even has a conscious? So many people fake remorse these days just to beat a stiff sentence. Hell, the assailant might even have the sick mindset that the guy shouldn't have been there in the first place... Look at Jose Vincens (google him). After hitting a kid on a bike, he got his story straight with his friends first before calling 911.

Elderta

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:44:27 -0500

From the Times: "Andys would have turned 7 tomorrow, Mr. Perez said. He had been asking for a dog, and his father had planned to surprise him with a Chihuahua." I would like to now stop crying.

Toby

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:43:00 -0500

Third Avenue under the Gowanus is über dangerous and we have Robert Moses to thank for that. Yours truly has even bicycled on that fun little secton of road and can tell you there needs to be some traffic calming measures. That stretch of Third Avenue needs to be fixed before more people die.

steveo

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:18:52 -0500

cgee -- this is all interesting and good, but the problem is that they guy wasn't even charged with manslaughter. He admitted he was trying to beat the light and the D.A. said, effectively, Oh well.

edEx

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:09:46 -0500

unrelated to this incident, the light at 9th avenue at 57th street has always had issues with people running red lights. so, the city, after hudreds of complaints and two deaths, finally put in a camera mid block (between 57th and 58th street on the west side of street) to catch the people running the light. it has worked so far. there's an unmarked cop beyond the light between 57th and 56th streets monitoring the camera and pulling people over for running the light...

pickles

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:07:21 -0500

For that whole straight stretch of Third Ave under the BQE/Gowanus Expy people drive absolutely CRAZY. All the lights turn green at once and drivers all try to make it through as many lights as possible before they turn red again (often running them). Speeds easily exceed the speed limit on the elevated highway directly above. Just about the only place this stops is when they reach Hamilton & W 9th St where there is a red light camera and everyone knows it.

ABC Girl

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:38:29 -0500

My condolences to Andy's family. Even if the driver is not charged or serves jailtime for this--and I believe he should-- his own conscience will keep in "jail" til he dies. Sad story all the way around.

cgee

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:31:30 -0500

Running a red light and killing someone should also be 2nd degree murder because it's a similar thing, you knowingly run a red light, it didn't accidentally happen. The reason why a vehicular homicide such as this is *not* murder has to do with the very definition of murder. The states vary a bit, but they all basically define murder as purposely or knowingly causing the death of a human being. How would running a red light *ever* qualify? Short answer - it cannot. At best, running a red light is reckless (in much the same manner as getting behind the wheel while intoxicated). It is at least negligent. Both of these types of mens rea are found in manslaughter charges. And why should it matter whether the charge is manslaughter or murder? Yes, I realize that the former carries a lower range of prison terms than the latter, which can run all the way up to life without parole in NYS (given the current judicial evisceration of the death penalty). But there have been many cases in which manslaughter sentences have been quite lengthy (e.g., Robert Chambers), and conversely, murder sentences have been fairly short.

bklynd

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:29:23 -0500

Just to add a little context, this location is directly under the Gowanus expressway. Depending on the block, it is 6 to 8 lanes across (looks like 6 in the photo). It is a very dangerous place for peds of any age (with low visibility & chaotic traffic) and I would certainly never let my kids cross it without supervision. But, that said, driver should be charged with something.

mela

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:14:52 -0500

Are you f-ing kidding me? Why is it illegal to run red lights if you don't get charged for committing a crime when you KILL someone because you ran a red light? Someone is dead because this guy "tried to beat the light." What the hell was so important that he had to beat the light? He was carrying empty coffins for christ sakes! Were they going to go bad or something? this makes me so angry, there has to be something we can do about this. And the other thing, was the driver 66 or 40? NYT says he was 40, but the other NY1 and the News have him at 66.

Rodney P. Sweetchops

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:32:16 -0500

#4, I think it's a nationwide problem, definitely not limited in scope to NYC. We simply put our drivers above the law here in the US and do not hold them accountable for operating a dangerous vehicle. If bad things happen they are "accidents", and even the most heinous drunken driving murders rarely amount to more than 2nd or 3rd degree manslaughter. Personally I feel that all drunk driving deaths should be AT LEAST 2nd degree, premeditated murder (in NY, 1st degree is only for cop/judge killing or multiple murders), and 1st degree for multiple deaths. If you knowingly drive drunk, you are planning to murder someone. Running a red light and killing someone should also be 2nd degree murder because it's a similar thing, you knowingly run a red light, it didn't accidentally happen. Our laws are so far from correct it's borderline absurd. Drug users get 25 years in jail and vehicle murders get nothing.

Tragic

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:22:17 -0500

"No one ever gets charged in this city for anything to do with a vehicle. This city loves its cars and doesn't care at all about pedestrians or cyclists." --"bob" OK, let's not turn everything into some fkkng Critical Mass soapbox opportunity. That being said, this is so awful, and the truck driver should definitely have been arrested for running the red light.

famdoc

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:01:56 -0500

The guy ran a red light? A kid is dead? What am I missing here? A terrible tragedy occurred. The driver took a chance he should never have taken. He'll regret it all of his life, but he committed a crime. Charge him. BTW, I thought the South Brooklyn Casket Co. AKA Milso Industries was closing down and moving elsewhere.

bob

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:56:45 -0500

No one ever gets charged in this city for anything to do with a vehicle. This city loves its cars and doesn't care at all about pedestrians or cyclists.

Rodney P. Sweetchops

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:44:52 -0500

How come this guy, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maia-szalavitz/cruel-and-unusual-25-yea_b_35781.html, gets 25 years, and yet these murderers hide behind their vehicle and get no punishment. Our country is absurd. What is the difference between killing someone with a car and killing someone with a gun?

Kojak

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:14:58 -0500

Talk about irony... Was the Grim Reaper driving the truck as well?

mike

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:42:51 -0500

I am tired of drivers getting away with murder. Arrest him.