Gothamist: One Dead From Union Square Greenmarket Fight; Two Injured

me

Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:18:32 -0500

why are you people talking about black on black crimes , and black and white people, i attend washington irving h.s , and the problem is between DOMINICANS AND BLACKS!!!! i dont know for some reason they just hate eachother .....i admit i do get kind of scared in irving ,the blacks and the dominicans just dont get along, and me being dominican i get alot of dirty looks alot times, and if you actually walk in the hall way of washington irving you will see that races separates themselves from eachother, the latinos have thei won crew, the blacks, even the asians only hang out with asians.. i just find it stupid and i just cant wait to get out of that school!!! im only a junior and im praying for 2008 to come so i can leave that school.. people say that high school years are you best years, but high school for me is hell!!!!like some lady said i will not have kids until i get enough money to get them into private school, hell no!!!!

MC

Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:01:40 -0500

this blog is gross because the jerkoffs who read it grow a pair of balls when theyre behind their computers and decide to write whatever meaningless crap they can come up with.

SugarCane

Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:04:15 -0500

#23- That is exactly what the problem is..Not all white people HATE black people. BUT, there are many innocent white people who suffer for what white people did many years ago. Remember that many "white" people were poor immigrants from Europe who lived in slums as well. Many were opressed in thier own way. We aren't all the enemy as not all black people are thugs. So EVERYONE just needs to get over it. Reality is there will always be ingorance amongt whites and blacks. #103- I am sorry for what you witnessed. And I agree, this blog is gross.

dishdawg

Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:16:55 -0500

This blog makes sick. I work at Union Square, and what I saw was a lot of kids, full of emotion and passion and a sixteen year old boy lying on the ground, slowly bleeding to death. My heart is broken.

nycguy

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:53:02 -0500

You opened the door on the issue of different experiences when you began comparing blacks to other ethnic groups. You can't compare one ethnic group to another, because they are not all similarly situated. It is not the entire black community that is engaged in violent behavior. It is a subset within the black community. Furthermore, it is a cycle of violence, much like domestic violence, which gets picked up from generation to generation. You are right, if the violence stops, we would all be better off. But like poster [100] said, this is a violent world and black people are not the only people who are violent. GWB, for example, has created another cycle of violence and destruction in Iraq. And in that case, wouldn't it be nice if they all stopped fighting now? Of course it would.

Commenting

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:15:03 -0500

"IF YALL KNEW ANYTHING U WOULD KNOW THAT THE BOY WHO DIED (SISTER GOT JUMPED BY A GANG CALLED DDP) SO HER BROTHER CAME TO FIGHT WITH HIS OWN DAMN WEAPON N ENDED DYING='(. " ignorance is bliss. Taishawn doesn't have a sister, you are going by what you heard obviously, and he didn't die with his own "damn weapon"

Commenting

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:11:29 -0500

well obviously alot of shit has been said in these comments, none of the stories i have read say the true story on what has happened, and i also realize that everyone swears that they are intellectually superior to one another and it get's really annoying, but anyways, did tai deserve to die, nope, was this gang related, nope, will shit like this stop happening, nope, it's the world we have created and the world we will continue to inhabit.

dug

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:27:51 -0500

who's arguing different experiences? short, bald, ugly, fat, black or brown... we all have different experiences. indeed if the black community stopped the violence, they wouldn't require so much policing and would not be the target of police mistakes. it really is that simple but sharpton won't even acknowledge it. that is the undeniable truth and i fail to see how someone can be a good leader who hides from the truth (ahem, gwb). however, i never insinuated that the reason for the violence was simple. it's ironic that you'd call me oversimplifying when i'm the one unwilling to settle on 'reverberations of slavery' as the lone reason this demographic is disproportionately violent. later.

nycguy

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:52:36 -0500

Crime is one component of the overall "problem" affecting many blacks and hispanics in high poverty areas. And the totality of ALL of these circumstances, not just crime, is a result of past discrimination. This is acknowledged in Brown v. Bd. of Ed. And the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, which was initiated by black people such as Malcolm X AND Martin Luther King, Jr., led to the rights that other minorities, women, and white people enjoy today. The Civil Rights Movement of 1964 is not limited to protecting the civil rights of black people. Indeed, the parents in the Seattle school district case are claiming that a white child was denied admission solely because of his race. And you can't say for sure, which type of activism (MLK's or Malcom X's) was the most effective in bringing about those changes. Although you are indeed free to subscribe to one school of thought or the other, a combination of both or neither. I don't think that I am the one who is oversimplifying the situation by saying that if blacks would just stop committing crimes, we wouldn't have all these problems. My conclusion is that it is much more complicated than that, and that we have to see the big picture, if we are to analyze these issues in an appropriate context. Zeroing in on whether Jewish people or blacks will have an easier time in the music business is minutiae. The Bruce Springsteen example is simply some evidence of the differences in experiences that some groups have when compared to others. Let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees.

dug

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:14:03 -0500

i never put all the blame on sharpton. i do argue, however the you are dead wrong in claiming that black criminality is "undeniably a result of slavery". slavery and poverty are factors but they are not unique. sharpton's us-against-them attitude that has been so predominate in the black community is particularly unique. farakhan, sharpton, jackson, malcolm x, black panthers and on it goes. a long line of people pointing fingers. why can't you follow your own notion that racism is far more complex than singling out one factor. do you honestly believe that a black musician today has it more difficult than a jew? yes, jews can pretend to be 'white'. the japanese could not do that during the 40s. and the presumption of criminality exists for a very obvious reason. erase that reason and the problem disappears. do you really think that sharpton's attitude (along with a resurgence of black panthers) works to solve that problem?

nycguy

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:58:44 -0500

Link to the U Delaware Article: http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2006/dec/racism120605.html

nycguy

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:35:07 -0500

The predominantly black, low-income communities were around before Sharpton. Sharpton did not create poverty/crime/attitudes in black, low-income communities. At best, he plays into them. So you have to ask, "When and how did these communities come into being?" And this question inevitably leads to, "Why?" Which is when we reach the undeniable and pervasive effects of slavery and past discrimination, including Jim Crow laws, which persisted into the 1960s. And even today, schools are re-segregating. If we are going to have a fully functioning democracy, then we need to have divergent perspectives. We need Sharpton/Jackson as much as we need any other leader. Race issues in this country are extremely complex and cannot be broken down to simply blaming a single person (Sharpton) for creating divisiveness. Unfortunately, the United States has a long and painful history of racial animosity. Additionally, you cannot always compare the experience of different ethnic groups to others. Some argue that a major reason why Jewish people have been better able to assimilate is because of "white skin privilege." For example, Bruce Springsteen simply changed the spelling of his name and few perceived that he was Jewish. If Bruce Springsteen had been black, I am not sure that he would have been as successful as a rock n roller, even with the exact same notes, dance moves, etc. In studies such as Harvard's Implicit Association Test, which can be taken for free at https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/, research has been conducted about the way people respond to black faces versus white faces. This article summarizes the results of the test: http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2006/dec/racism120605.html. Similarly you can't compare the different races. Each one of them is presented with different challenges. And each one is starting from a very different presumptioin that needs to be overcome. For example, it is more difficult to overcome a presumption of criminality, than it is to overcome a presumption of being good at math.

dug

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:26:59 -0500

not that it matters, but i grew up in poverty as well and also know first hand that low income does not cause violence. i'm not here to argue the reason for income disparity... although, regardless of percentage of income paid, you've surely seen the percentage of this country's total tax revenue paid by the wealthy... and beyond that, philanthropy. or are soros and gates racist too? please explain how tax shelters are racist. more straw men. the point is that the absurd levels of violence that infect black communities are not the same in every community as you claim. it is not simply because they are poor. nor is it simply because of skin color. i'm saying the sharpton and co blame-everyone-but-yourself mentality is a primary reason.

greg

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:44:15 -0500

LMAO PROPER ENGLISH OR NOT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WROTE, YOU'RE A VERY FUNNY PERSON. AND THEY WRITE IN CAPS IF THEY PLEASEEEEEEE. IT'S OKAY YOU TRIED=)

Kojak

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:14:53 -0500

Chill with the caps and use a spell check for Christ's sake! If you go to Irving, they seem to have neglected teaching you proper grammar.

saint

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:02:13 -0500

HOLD UP I GO TO IRVING AND I BET NONE OF YALL WAS THURR SO NUMBER 6 LOL U A CORNBALL. I'D LIKE TO C U MAKE IT TO OUR SCHOOL. ANYWAY THAT BOY IS MY FRIEND THAT THEY ACCUSSING AND HE WONT SNITCH ON WHO DID IT. IF YALL KNEW ANYTHING U WOULD KNOW THAT THE BOY WHO DIED (SISTER GOT JUMPED BY A GANG CALLED DDP) SO HER BROTHER CAME TO FIGHT WITH HIS OWN DAMN WEAPON N ENDED DYING='(. SO IF IT'S ON WASHINGTON IRVING BECAUSE IT'S OUR TURF WELL THEN HEY I DONT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YALL BUT GET YOUR STORIES RIGHT, IF YOU WASN'T THERE. I'M NOT ONE OF THESE DISRESPECTFUL KIDS, WRITING THINGS BUT DON'T CALL US SAVAGES AND THINGS. ALSO WHOEVER SAID THAT COPS SHOULD HAVE SHOT US, LOL DID YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO SEAN BELL I KNOW YALL DON'T HAVE NOTHING TO SAY NOW!!! COPS DON'T DO ANYTHING BUT GET DRUNK AND SHOOT AT PEOPLE!!! WELL JUST WANTED TO BE KNOWN. OH AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEND YOUR KIDS TO OUR SCHOOL, TAKE THEY ASS TO PRIVATE SCHOOL THEN (like that's going to help) YOU'RE ATLEAST GOING TO HAVE ONE FIGHT IN YOUR LIFE (don't expect it to be pretty.) THE WROLD IS NOT PRETYY!!!

Mo

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:15:46 -0500

The previous post was directed at post #84 (Dug), and not post #94.

Mo

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:14:35 -0500

This is to post #94. You obviously don't know anything about tax law. There are many "tax shelters" that favor the affluent. We are based on "progessive" tax rate, which means that the amount we are taxed is based on your income minuse deductions and exceptions. For example, Some people are taxed at 0% while others at 25% and still others at 35%. Futhermore, I grew up living in poverty, in the South. I know first hand what problems plague the poor in other places. So where are the stats you are refering to? I've completed a thesis on this issue, so please, rest your case.

dug

Sat, 09 Dec 2006 11:50:15 -0500

mr flav is no more of a community leader than madonna. you have no point. emmit hill?! wtf. do you realize how many blacks were lynched in the south compared to how many violent crimes are commited against whites by blacks? the ratio is absurd. you're talking about one event while i get harassed for my race several times a year. who's walking around like a zombie ignoring the true reality? you tell me why the black community can't take responsibility like every other ethnic group does? i gave examples, you ignore them. how is slavery more insurmountable than a holocaust? you tell me why hate-breeders like sharpton are the one's most loved by the black community and cosby is shunned for talking about responsibility? this has nothing to do with your politics, health care or what ever other strawman ideologies you want to hide behind. this has nothing to do with media or news sources (i only listen to npr, bbc, and read the nytimes, so you can stop being such a presumptuous twit). just because i don't agree with your pathetic bleeding heart ignorance at the expense of true solutions does not make me a conservative. this is about why one demographic is absurdly out of control and people like you prefer to ignore any root cause in favor of a no-win, racist blame-game. like i say, a compassionate person looks for a sustainable solution. you look to put your white guilt at ease. and thanks for the FU and wishes for my children, #85. i hope i can someday live up to your laudable standards.

Tee

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:04:27 -0500

He was my cousin

nycguy

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:47:49 -0500

Sharpton doesn't breed any more racism than the subtle racism that is bred by the people in charge and in the media. We are dealing with a number of double standards. DOUBLE STANDARD #1: I think Flavor Flav breeds more racism than Al Sharpton, but that's just me. I don't see many conservatives getting agitated when they see Flavor Flav on TV, wearing a top hat and gloves, just like a vaudeville act in the early 1900s. Indeed, Flavor of Love has garnered more ratings for VH1 than any VH1 show before it. Yet conservatives love to get in an uproar about Al Sharpton. Is it that people love to see black people make fun of themselves, but not stand up for themselves? DOUBLE STANDARD #2: White folks in the south responded violently (lynched) Emmit Till because he allegedly whistled (non-violent impetus) at a white woman. And now, you get mad, because Al Sharpton responded NON-violently (launching protests) because of the excessive use of force used by police officers (violent impetus) of a black man? Dug, if all you want to do is just walk around like a zombie, like you have been given a sedative, and like too many people across the nation have been doing for too many years, then keep watching O'Reilly, Fox, Flavor of Love and reading the New York Post. But most people are sick of that, as evidenced by the recent election. In the richest country in the world, we shouldn't have any homeless people, people without healthcare, or high poverty/high-crime areas. But we do, because this guy in the White House has got us tied up in Iraq.

send them to private skool

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:42:01 -0500

Like I said before, you go ahead and send your children to private school. And, see what happens. Did you see the news today? It's not the first time and it won't be the last. There's more coming. and a big F U to dug. I hope it's his 9 yr old boy getting molested by that rabbi.

dug

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:07:10 -0500

"reverberating effects of slavery" blah blah blah. i refer back to that list of other ethnic groups with equally harsh histories who overcome their difficulties without these aggressive media whore agitators who seem to think the black community is uniquely entitled. compassion has nothing to do with saying 'you're right, poor victim, you are helpless and need someone from above to fix the system for you.' do you really believe that is compassion?? real compassion is helping someone to rise above, not leading them to cry louder. sharpton isn't waking anyone up, he's breeding racism. and what is this 'don't complain' garbage? universal healthcare and taxes treat everyone equally. they are not divisive, race-based initiatives. #83 you are absolutely wrong. check stats.

mo

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:38:52 -0500

Some people speak/write before they stop to read/listen. "Tejada" who was also injured in the fight is a Latino. It's not all black on black violence. The problems that plague the NYC black community are the same problems that plague every other segment of the American population that lives in poverty. Poverty does not discriminate.

fedupwhitegirl

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:35:16 -0500

I work in the Union Square area. The "kids" from Washington Irving High School are a bunch of filthy delinquents. I wish they would all go straight to hell. Well, they will, but they'll take a few others with them. They are interesting in eating, fucking, and getting stoned. The girls will get pregnant and the boys will end up in jail or, God willing, dead by 35. They have extremely low IQs and are not capable of academic achievement, or indeed any other kind of achievement except, as I said, fucking and breeding. I think that in their heart of hearts everyone reading this knows it.

john

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:11:54 -0500

i am a student at washington irving right now , i dont know how this all happend , that park is full of people and kids after school , and there are usolly alot of cops around there , in school the kids really arnt that bad , there are some fights and gangs , but there are fights and gangs also at most high schools in new york.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:30:05 -0500

I have to admit a bad word choice in #78, above: I meant "atrophic" not "entropic."

teacher

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:52:51 -0500

76 - thank you. I teach in the after-school program at WIHS and can also attest to the fact that the school seems to really be making strides, and is not just a building of 'wild animals' as stated above. I have had students who are exemplary people, citizens, and of fine moral character. The whole incident is shocking to me, but should not reflect all of WIHS.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:39:53 -0500

There are two kinds of civil rights activists--those who are in your face, and those who are not. Jackson/Sharpton, as much as people may disagree with them, are important voices. Civil Rights activism needs people who are agressive and who are not afraid to blow the whistle and demand scrutiny. Too many times throughout history, black people have been told to wait. Well, black people are tired of waiting. And someone needs to say that loud and clear. And maybe activists like Sharpton and Jackson need to piss off a few people--everything else seems to go in through one ear and out the other. On the other hand, there are several black leaders who do not do this, such as Barack Obama and Charlie Rangel. We need both styles. But we do not have enough of either. I hear a lot of people saying, "Why are blacks always complaining? They are jealous." and all this other nonsense. I reiterate: all of these problems are the reverberating effects of slavery and if we had more compassionate people in this country, we would not have this many problems at home or abroad. All people want to here is watch television, and be in an entropic, zombie-like state. They resent anything that wakes them up out of their peace (ie. laziness). And if Sharpton is waking you up, then I say, "Good." Jackson has set up several initiatives through the Rainbow/Push coalition. Activism means demanding change from the powers that be. And if it means holding decision makers accountable, that's what democracy is about. If you want to stop the woe is us mentality, then let's, all of us, not complain about anything, ever. High taxes? Don't complain. A need for universal healthcare? Don't complain. Until you have absolutely nothing to complain about and hold government accountable for, don't complain about others who complain.

intruder alert

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:21:10 -0500

I too, don't understand the hate against the Great Reverend Al Sharpton. but whatever it is, he must be doing something right to get you whiteys all riled up. Keep on keeping on, Reverend Sharpton.

Geo

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:44:37 -0500

I am a former student of Washington Irving and in my four years attending the school, actions were implemented to reduce violence. Did they work? To an extent. The matter is, schools cannot control the mindsets and internal affairs of students. All that is within the school's power is maintaining some kind of order within the grounds. It is unfortunate that incidents like these occur, but they should not reflect an entire student body; one that consists of over 2,000 students. I graduated last year and I am somewhat of a testament that we're not all violent savages that amount to funerals or your local gas station attendant. The failure of parents enforcing the importance of education and the fancies of youth are to blame for their dabbling in stupidity, I'd say. I can only pity them for if a voice is projected above them, they'll only drown it out in stubborn ignorance. And, for the record, this is not a white person posting. Minorities can acquire education too! I know, it's a wild concept, but it happens.

Bob A Booey

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:40:12 -0500

#72 No one is saying that Blacks commit all violent crimes but there is a huge amount of crime being committed within black communities. This is a huge problem compounded by an asinine “Stop Snitching” mentality and hatred towards the police who are trying to protect the community. Then you have the huge problem in the black community of children being born out of wedlock in single parent homes. Kids who try to make something of themselves and study hard are ridiculed as acting “white”, the rest of the kids act like animals in school because they have no parents watching over them. There are large problems in the black community and it seems that the only time black people get organized and complain is when they perceive that “white cops” have done something wrong. Many blacks view joining the police as “selling out”. Bill Cosby offered his opinion about problems in the black community and was pretty much dead on (and a bit hypocritical considering his checkered past). He was ridiculed for telling the truth. Most blacks would rather listen to a Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson who never offer to do any real help for the community other than foster the “woe is us/we’re always vicitims of the big white man conspiracy” attitude that is poisoning the black community.

dug

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:30:47 -0500

#69, true, it has nothing to do with race. oj. mexicans, while still largely below poverty, don't account for an outrageous proportion of violent crime. violence doesn't come just from race or poverty. brown skin does correlate with lower incomes but that's not the same as causation. a large proportion of brown-skinned people are coming from poorer countries. just like a poor white immigrant or my blue-collar family, they're not going to start at the top. you get there on your own merit or the coat-tails of your family, not blaming others for problems while ignoring causes within your own community. #72 yes, the conservative moral framework is weird. no argument and good riddence. of course there have been huge contributions from every race. again, full agreement. but we were talking about sharpton and other leaders of the black community who come to the fore whenever there's an opportunity to cry racism. surely there is another reason beyond historic racism and poverty that has created such violence in one demographic. i'm merely saying that his divisive race stance is counter-productive and it doesn't exist at that level in other ethnic groups most of which have drastically lower violent crime rates and aren't subjected to as many police excesses or mistakes. other ethnic groups have troubled pasts but their leaders don't use mass media to focus their problems on their ethnicity or difficult history and that just might be part of the equation. #71 the sharpton talk originated with the multi-named poster who is still crying racism and praising him. advocating violence against white people. sharpton jumped into the whole spectacle on race until the ethnicity of the officers was revealed.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:10:53 -0500

I think the hyperlink in my last post is broken. I hope this one works: http://afgen.com/pioneer.html

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:07:04 -0500

#68, If you believe in logic, then you should use it (and reading comprehension) -- I didn't call logic weird, I called the conservative moral framework weird--which many people agree that it is. Which is why most of them will be gone from office in a few weeks. If you have some research indicating that blacks commit 90% of the violent crimes, I would be interested in seeing it. But you should also consider some of the major accomplishments of African-Americans. Instead of, again, making these blanket statements (ie. generalizations, as you call them). You continue to imply that there is something inherently wrong with blacks, vis-a-vis other minority groups, with the whole, antiquated "people overcome past discrimination" argument, and then listing some accomplishments of several minority groups, except blacks. What's that about? Here is a short list of some well-known African Americans who were doing other things besides engaging in violent crime: http://www.black-collegian.com/african/aaprofil.shtml. But it is far from being a comprehensive list.

Linda

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:02:06 -0500

I don't understand what all the Sharpton racist talk is coming from. I watched Larry King with Sharpton and the girlfriend of the victim and they stated repeatedly that they felt it was only the officer(s) involved that should be investigated and punished regarding this incident. The girlfriend was very eloquent and never once cited rage against white people about this tragecy. I'm white and I feel terrible about any one being killed, whether by a violent act or state execution. Reading these posts I feel that incidents like this give racists a chance to spew, and it saddens me that the same mentality that thought it was okay to enslave and constitutionaly strip a segement of the human population of their rights it alive and well in this country today.

al sharpton is crazy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:51:32 -0500

Just to point out, which most of the Al Sharpton cronies are unaware of: ONLY ONE OF THE FIVE OFFICERS WAS WHITE. Two were black. Two were hispanic. And yet, it's the NYPD being RACIST? Please.

lackey

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:48:01 -0500

yeah, dug, #68 and it takes more than skin color too. I believe that poverty has a lot to do with criminal acts that are committed. And when rich people do comitt violent acts, they hire a good attorney and get off. And since when are the majority of Mexicans living above the poverty level. Fact is, the browner in this country you are, the more chances of you being poor.

dug

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:40:55 -0500

hehe... now i'm a conservative? against civil rights? nothing could be further. call it weird but i admit, i tend to think logic and rational thought are good things. it is also interesting that when someone is frustrated with their shakey ground, they pretend to be morally superior and start generalizing to avoid directly answering a difficult argument. anyway, yes, poverty is a problem and it is not the fault of any one race. all races are equally greedy. people are able to overcome past descrimintion. it has happened to nearly every race on the planet at some point (not to mention the unattractive, overweight, short, socially awkward that you never hear from). the thing is, jews went through a holocaust and they don't claim 90% of the violent crimes. the japanese were in internment camps. where are they now? chinese had zero rights in america for decades and were forced laborers building our railroads. mexicans are still working their asses off with very limited rights. what do they have in common? they help themselves get out of poverty and don't follow divisive leaders who do nothing but blame others for the hardships in their communities. and just to be clear, i'm not talking about crime in general which does correlate with poverty, it's VIOLENT crime that creates dangerous situations where cops are more likely to make mistakes. it takes more than poverty to make people violent.

Rosalind

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:29:05 -0500

Savages! Yikes... If you consider teenagers engaging in a gang fight savage, what would you classify the 19 year-old that raped his mother as? He was white so I guess you would consider that just a 'bad choice.' http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=5599487

Kanye West

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:21:53 -0500

Al Sharpton don’t like black people. How do I know? He never does anything to help black people improve themselves. If black people improved the problems in their communities, he would be out of a job

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:18:13 -0500

#63, Boy are you smart. Do you need some more boxes?

russ

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:13:27 -0500

#23, How do we know Sharpton is a racist? You could start by asking the folks who remember Freddy's Fashion Mart back in the 80s....

sighsville

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:13:20 -0500

t seems like conservatives are always making strange, amorphous arguments that appear to have a logical foundation but really don't--especially when it comes to acknowledging the effects of past discrimination. It's how they create a catch-22--to give themselves a moral framework for restricting civil rights. But the moral framework is just WEIRD, and their logic (if you believe in logic) ignores details, which is why they are packing up their offices on the Hill. Poverty, which also affects a disproportionate number of minorities, is an effect of past discimination. Crime is rampant in high poverty areas, whether these areas are predominantly minority or not. We have a societal problem, which is not any one race's fault. Some douchebag always comes along and tries to turn everything into a political issue where there is none. How about some examples Mr. Expert?

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:10:33 -0500

Supplementing my previous comment: The societal problem is not any one race's fault. We can each race for some of the problems that have led up to it. However, conservatives, who are typically non-minorities, tend to perpetuate the problem with faulty policies and bizarre concepts.

confused

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:09:46 -0500

"the point was that racists like rev al start screaming when a white person does something..." not that it really matters, but while we seem to be doing racial headcounts here, i thought only two of those six cops were white, the rest were black and hispanic.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:07:10 -0500

It seems like conservatives are always making strange, amorphous arguments that appear to have a logical foundation but really don't--especially when it comes to acknowledging the effects of past discrimination. It's how they create a catch-22--to give themselves a moral framework for restricting civil rights. But the moral framework is just WEIRD, and their logic (if you believe in logic) ignores details, which is why they are packing up their offices on the Hill. Poverty, which also affects a disproportionate number of minorities, is an effect of past discimination. Crime is rampant in high poverty areas, whether these areas are predominantly minority or not. We have a societal problem, which is not any one race's fault.

dug

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:44:48 -0500

#52, yes, he was probably innocent, but my point is that mistakes are more likely to happen in the neighborhoods where police are called to most. if the community would live responsibly (ie. without violence), the police would have no reason to be in those areas making those mistakes. if that were the case, and excessive force continued disproportionately, you (and rev al) would have a very valid point.

mdowning

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:40:19 -0500

why can't we all just laugh, wish more had died, and then go along with our days? as a former straight baller, i can tell you i used to congregate with my thug friends who were about to start fights, and i did it often. and yo, they'd make me fight too, yo. i'm sure humanity just lost one of its best in little ol' taishawn. stereotypes save time. and good work, edEx.

freed

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:30:49 -0500

God i hate children

not sure about today

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:14:42 -0500

I thought the US army was like 65% black? I don't know about now but during the first Gulf War it was a commonly accepted myth that blacks were doing all the fighting. Back then the statisitics showed that while blacks were overrepresented in the Army as a whole (that is a larger percentage of the Army was black than the 11-12% of the general population) they were underrepresented on the front line. The reality was that more blacks were joining the military as a career and were doing jobs in support roles. Whites were enlisting for one or two tours either for the money or the adventure and then moving on. As newbies, they were the ones in the infantry. Same for officers. More whites were ROTC for the scholarship money and had no intention of staying past their commitment. They suddenly found themselves in the desert.

Kojak

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:14:10 -0500

The Gothamist content block is retarded. Look at what Kramer got away with, and I can't even post something about loose m*lfs Oh yes, and what happened is terrible.

Kramer

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:08:40 -0500

50 years ago we would have had all these kids upside down with a fvcking fork up their a$$! They're niggers! They're niggers! They're niggers! They're niggers! Hey wait a minute, what happened to my career?

what's your point

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:08:10 -0500

maybe black people will start protesting black on black crime when white people protest white peoples involvement in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq. Most (not all) of the deaths in Iraq are Iraqis killing other Iraqis, with Arabs from other nearby states joining in.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:04:17 -0500

#51, The problem with your argument is that the fellow in Queens was not commiting any crime. Neither was Diallo. Abner Louima was breaking up a fight. We are talking about excessive force in those three cases--not whether behavior was informed by statistics. If we accept your argument, one could equally argue that these cops used the same crime statistics, which indicated that blacks commit more crime, as an EXCUSE to use excessive force. You just don't know--that is the problem. So no one can plausibly make any blanket statements about anything.

dug

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:50:33 -0500

#31, the police wouldn't be killing a disproportionate number of blacks if they weren't commiting a disproportionate amount of violent crimes. as humans are involved, mistakes are bound to happen at some point and it would be absurd to think that they would be somewhere other than the areas they are most often called to. anyway, the point was that racists like rev al start screaming when a white person does something but never speaks to the root of the problem within his own community. that comment was probably too absurd to even deserve a response, but some of the antiwar protests in nyc were in the region of half a million people. i do seem to recall a few white folks in there.

nycguy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:44:25 -0500

I went to a specialized, charter H.S. in New York. No one was violent there. Except there was a fight in the cafeteria once--a guy had a fish sandwich squished in his hair.

public school

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:40:48 -0500

As a product of PRVIATE school I can honestly say that you are throwing your money away if thats where you decide to send your kids to school. as evidenced by your spelling

The Empire

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:34:09 -0500

Read a newspaper: kids kill people all the time. We shouldn't be disturbed by their skin color, we should be disturbed by how many kids have killed their parents, classmates or significant other just this year. BTW - I went to private school. Some teens are violent regardless of how much their education costs.

Clyde Frog

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:26:07 -0500

As a product of PRVIATE school I can honestly say that you are throwing your money away if thats where you decide to send your kids to school. There are plenty of respectable public high schools in the city, you just have to know which ones (apparently, Irving) not to send your kids to. --Did anyone else laugh when reading the comment about the mom slapping her child leaving the police station, anyone with an overprotective mother could appreciate that one!--

Edumacation

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:23:22 -0500

Gawd Bless 'Merica! Feeling my eye Q bleeding out my ears each subsequent post I read please stop posting, people--save me my addiction to reading stoopid sh*t that stoopid people write.

love

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:21:17 -0500

I have a template too: I love _________ because _____________.

cato

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:17:15 -0500

______ _________ _______ White Men ______ _____Iraq! I have created a template that sanctimonious people can use to create a comment for any situation. Enjoy

love

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:09:18 -0500

I don't understand why, in a city as ethnically diverse and beautiful as New York, there are so many racist stereotypes. These problems are the effects of years of discrimination and hatred--years upon years upon years--all the way back to 1607, when the first slaves arrived at Jamestown. In an historical context, these kids just got here about two seconds ago. This evinces a problem: The kids are not the problem. Hate is the problem. Racism itself is the problem, and it is part of our national heritage. And we really have to love.

budda

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:07:36 -0500

H&M is full of warrior esk clothing lets all go and then rumble again.

kid rock

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:02:12 -0500

i'm really excited. the H&M around the corner from this crime scene is opening today.

IamBond

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:48:41 -0500

Whew. You folks forgot to take your smart pills today. The army is diverse racially and they follow ORDERS given by a group of old white men who got deferments when it was their turn to serve. Wars aren't started by the rank and file soldiers.

jamon

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:43:22 -0500

I thought the US army was like 65% black?

IamBond

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:37:41 -0500

I think some of you are missing the point the writer made regarding the war.

edEx

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:34:11 -0500

While I do not condone or agree with the war in Iraq I can say that in the rules of war when the enemy uses civilians as shields, and in this situation it is very common, civilians are not off limits (at least we have the courtesy to paper bomb the towns to warn of impending attacks) to missle and other attacks. that's is the rule of war and has been so since before WWII. How many total civilians do you think were killed in WWII (by both the allied and enemy military? Do you have any idea? Total civilian deaths in WWII (this does not include the holocaust or military deaths): 32,326,700 get off your soap box and educate yourself before pulling this race card crap.

IamBond

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:29:53 -0500

#34, I think the writer meant that white people are responsible for starting this war. Besides a few generals and condi rice, we all know it was cheyney-esque like humans that opened this pandora's box.

god u peeepal

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:27:30 -0500

Damn, you people are racist. I'm glad you have this outlet because you know you don't have the balls to say this elsewhere. yeah yeah, keep talking. You're all just talk. You have cell phone cams, show us what you did if you're so tough.

the market

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:22:16 -0500

*maybe black people will start protesting black on black crime when white people protest white peoples involvement in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq.* probably one of the most retarded things ever written on gothamist. why is it that black people believe that our nation's army is "white" do you have any idea how racist you are? probably not, and that's the root of your problem. pathetic.

cato

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:19:05 -0500

NotAgain!, Do you even attemp to make a logical connection between any event and Iraq anymore?

IamBond

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:15:56 -0500

Why can't we do what we did to the first group of people we called savages? It worked out well for us. -sarcasm off-

Pants

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:15:28 -0500

If you idiots can't see the difference between a state-sanctioned armed group gunning down innocent black men time and time again and kids getting into gang fights.... Well, you're stupid! And racist, but that goes without saying. Anyway, I was walking by that McD's on Monday and I noticed all the kids in front, blocking the sidewalk and annoying passers-by. I was a bit intimidated myself, but I put on my old grumpy cracker face and they let me through. I did think it's stupid that McD's allows the children to just mill around aimlessly, and I thought the cops could easily get them to disperse. But then I guess you fools want the po-po to go ahead and plug a couple of them, no questions asked! Isn't it wonderful how us white people never did anything bad when we were kids? I know that I've never broken the law!

ron burgandy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:14:41 -0500

I just got a chill. I have it from a reliable source that public school kitchens regularly use flat leaf parsley in the place of cilantro. Where are our tax dollars going, people? If my black bean soup had been sullied in such a manner, I might also resort to wielding a plank. Don't even get me started on their relentless use of dried herbs.

NotAgain!

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:07:48 -0500

maybe black people will start protesting black on black crime when white people protest white peoples involvement in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq.

dude

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:07:05 -0500

edEx - You're a racist for telling the truth.

kid rock

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:06:01 -0500

it's pretty scary, i think public schools serve iceberg lettuce in their caprese salads...

edEx

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:02:00 -0500

the black community and al sharpton should be comdemning this violence. oh wait, that's right, they only come out of the woodwork when there's a shooting in their communities involving the NYPD and or white offenders. while sharpton and his cronies were off protesting at NYPD headquarters (and speaking to the media of potential future violence against the police and public [to get their point across]) last night maybe they should have marched up to union square to a real issue—set the record staright, peacefully.

montesorri brearly

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:58:14 -0500

If you think Private schools are much safer, you're in for a surprise. But it's your child and your money.

ron burgandy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:56:56 -0500

I think that might have been part of the problem. Statistics show that violence often coincides with the appearance of root vegetables at our nation's greenmarkets. Personally, the mere sight of a rutabega throws me into a violent rage.

church of todd

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:56:50 -0500

How do you people know The Great Reverand Al Sharpton preach racism? Were you ever in his church? I'm willing to bet a NO. Why don't you just admitt you hate black people.

kid rock

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:51:42 -0500

well, it IS a crime to use heirlooms after their prime time in the early fall.

dude

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:51:18 -0500

I knew that someone (#18) would eventually attempt to blame this subtly on the "establishment". The only people to blame here are the idiot kids who came to fight and their idiot parents who care more about their kids basketball skillz than their math and reading skillz.

ron burgandy

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:48:20 -0500

I work nearby and believe it or not it all started over an heirloom tomato. I guess there was only one decent one left in the whole market and two kids from warring high schools reached for it at the same time.

dug

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:45:58 -0500

because al is silent. he's a flamer for racism. can you get it #16? the police (among myriad social programs and handouts) are our effort to 'change it'. maybe it's time for community leaders to take some responsibility? you never hear al talk about the real root of this problem and it couldn't be more obvious. oh, it's so much easier to hate and blame it all on white oppression.

MeAgain

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:45:02 -0500

Savages are amongst us, but some of them wear suits and flags on their lapels while organizing and ordering the violent demise of others...

cato

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:35:49 -0500

Everyone is hurt by incidents like this. The individuals involved, the ones that survived, have shown a savage propensity towards violence which will make them an anchor on the rest of civilization. Additionally, I shudder when I see this kind of violence by women. When I was in HS a 16 year old girl was jumped by another HS girl and her 22 year old boyfriend. They hit her with a sledge hammer and cut her face with a razor. I would never subject any child that I have to these animals. Private schools all the way.

any else hurtz

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:11:46 -0500

any white people hurt? NO. why the hate against the Great Reverend Al Sharpton? If you care about Black on Black crime, mr. baba booey, why don't you make an effort to change it. instead of posting on a message board.

Bumpy Jonas

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:10:34 -0500

Lemme guess: somebody probably "dissed" somebody. Naturally, lives are going to be lost over that! Social Darwinism at its finest. Can't wait for the rappers to release a "tribute" song for this one. Amen to posts #6 & 7.

Bumpy Jonas

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:09:14 -0500

Lemme guess: somebody probably "dissed" somebody. Naturally, lives are going to be lost over that. Social Darwinism! Can't wait for the rappers to release a "tribute" song for this one. Amen to posts #6 & 7.

Bob A Booey

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:06:37 -0500

Al $harpton won’t protest because this because black-on-black violence is an actual problem plaguing the black community, $harpton only shows up when he can protest cops. Plus there is no money to be made from cleaning up your own mess, only from crying “racism” like the boy who cried “wolf”.

dude

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:00:53 -0500

#10: Thanks Herbert Asbury.

nick

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:58:42 -0500

its always sad when the world loses a "straight baller"

Rosalind

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:56:11 -0500

This is not the first gang fight on the streets of Manhattan, nor will it be the last. The color of the faces may change but street fighting went on before there were paved streets in NY.

bklynd

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:54:13 -0500

Yeah, the cops should have gunned those kids down. But, thanks to Sharpton, they are all on desk duty now.

stupid

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:53:18 -0500

Another example of how white people and the establishment are conspiring to kill black people in the US. Oh, wait. Wrong post.

ojackco

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:52:23 -0500

This is why I can't have children until I have a million dollars. I would never let my children go to public school with these barbaric savage monkeys.

dude

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:44:13 -0500

Maybe they should clear some space for them, put up a fence and let them kill each other. Seriously - Battle Royale for stupid HSers. Last one standing gets an education.

jojo

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:42:54 -0500

Where's Al sharpton to denounce these kids? I bet if there were cops this wouldn't have happened. Where are the cops? oh yeah, they've got their hands tied

snacks

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:41:42 -0500

f'ed up

Al Sharpton

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:33:52 -0500

uh, no cops, no comment.

S.D.

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:22:49 -0500

Sadly, Washington Irving High School used to be a top notch Girls only school.

ryan

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:05:57 -0500

Rumble, Union Square. Presents, stabbings, Christmas cheer. Happy holidays.