Gothamist: University May Expand; Debate Already Has

go away

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:12:01 -0500

Someone here mentioned a scientist possibly finding a cure in one of the new buildings. This is not a greater good. A speculation that something might happen doesn't qualify - sorry. Says you, NIMBY. When the Chinese finally surpass us are you still going to try to blame it all on George W. Bush?

Michael

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:40:37 -0500

I'm tired of hearing people suggest that Columbia (or any other user of eminent domain) is going to screw anyone out of their property. Eminent domain is a way of forcing owners to sell at FAIR MARTKET VALUE. So, if you're going to argue with eminent domain, make sure not to claim that anyone is going to lose their land without compensation. Just not the extortionary compensation that many landowners try to get when they hold the last piece of property. And, give me a break. Does anyone honestly believe that the few holdout owners (Columbia owns 70% of the land already) really can't operate their storage/auto businesses elsewhere? Those businesses are decrepit and in need of serious work anyways to compete with many of the better self storage firms that are located elsewhere. Second, if Columbia does not go in there, what will? Private developers. I very much doubt that there is ever going to be public money available to develop that land with affordable housing, so big developers would be happy to go in there and develop luxury apartments and retail. The area has great transportation acces, proximity to Columbia and Riverside Park. And, finally, what a terrible editorial. "West Harlem" has no historical basis. That area has only recently come to be known as West Harlem, but long before Columbia was known as Manhattanville. Recent histories of the area use the name Manhattanville and there is an importance to keeping old New York names alive. Maybe we should just refer to everything anywhere above 125th street as Harlem from now on?

re kristin

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:22:37 -0500

Ollie's? Overpriced? That's the cheapest food in Manhattan. Disclosure: I'm a Columbia student and a neighborhood activist in my own right (I don't live in Manhattan). Eminent domain is generally inappropriate in this case, and Columbia hasn't said they're going to use it -- they were looking into the possibility. Which is still bad, yeah, but a university isn't one agent. It's a collection of bureaucrats. But there isn't much neighborhood down there. I spent a lot of time in Manhattanville trying to get a sense of it, and I hit up Dinosaur and Fairway whenever I have the money. For the most part, the area west of Broadway is what it is -- a wasteland. It's a rat-infested maze of blank walls and empty tenements. Is Columbia to blame for a lot of this? Maybe. But the holdout businesses in the neighborhood don't contribute jack shit to community. Most of the ones that are worth a damn have their lots preserved in the current plan, or equivalent space available in new buildings. The university has gone to great lengths to adapt the plan to serve the needs of the properties it hasn't been able to purchase. Not that the whole thing isn't shady. But Manhattanville is a far cry from being West Harlem, in terms of blight, residential population, or strength of community.

wirc

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:02:24 -0500

Why do people think that this area will stay the same if Columbia were to stay out? And this area has a character - and it's not pretty. WIth the exception of the 132-133 sts. block, there is almost none of this fabled cheap retail to disappear. Don't bring anything north of 134th into this, be cause Columbia's effect on prices seems to drop off after one block in each direction.

nick

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:56:28 -0500

re: kristin "People for it (who don't live in said neighborhood) say it's a wasteland with no character. Those people don't know what community nor beauty mean." i think it'd help your case if you didn't try to present in a "climax of a movie" sort of language.

kristin

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:44:35 -0500

If the community members want to sell their properties to Columbia, that is their right under the law. But, in my view - as a resident of the area - Columbia's plan will tear down a community that is there, though someone from downtown may not recognize it. However, what I truly fear is that eminant domain may actually be invoked in order to take the last pieces of land Columbia needs. Someone here mentioned a scientist possibly finding a cure in one of the new buildings. This is not a greater good. A speculation that something might happen doesn't qualify - sorry. Nor does Columbia wanting to maintain it's world class status. As for the development improving the neighborhood, what do you all mean? Do you mean that we *finally* get a Starbucks, a Gap, an overpriced Ollie's, and mediocre diners and restaurants? If so, no thanks. I'll take my Spanish coffee, tostada, El Mundo, and street tamales any day over that crap.

ttorrison

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:43:33 -0500

I agree with some of what Aaron says. The area isn't as blighted as others in Harlem, and it would be a shame if the area became a sort of extended shopping mall. But of all the developmental ideas for the area (that aren't pipe dreams) a University expansion has to be among the best at avoiding the sort of suburbanization that IS coming to, say, 125th Street. Universities in my experience, tend to be surrounded by much more interesting sorts of street life and activity that would, for instance, the existing vacant lots being turned into condos or large format shopping malls. The fear of gentrification is usually irrational. And New York's strong rent regulations prevent the sort of evictions and rent increases you would find elsewhere. Columbia WILL expand. It's going to gentrify somewhere. Harlem would be missing out on something potentially great in exchange for something like Atlantic Yards in circa 2013? The story of the 1968 'Morningside Park bulldozing' is a canard. Wikipedia gives something closer to the real story: "Protesters believed the planned separate east and west entrances amounted to an attempt to circumvent recent federal law that banned racially segregated facilities. The distinctive local geography and demographics would have opened one end of the gymnasium to African-American Harlem residents and opened the other end to the predominantly white university. University administration under Grayson Kirk denied that this reflected racial bias and stressed that greater park services would benefit the Harlem community. The university abandoned the plan after students occupied administration and classroom buildings and shut down the university for several weeks." In that case, the malcontents won. But, hey, it was the 60's. Let's not repeat their errors for old times sake.

Samantha T

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:52:13 -0500

"But who can deny the positive economic impact of an area having a world-class University in its midst? Look at the areas around Oxford in England, Palo Alto in California and most of Boston for crying out loud! Harlemites should be dancing in the streets with joy." Or, you could also look at Penn or Yale where the university stands in stark contrast to many (though not all) of its surrounding neighborhoods. As often as not, schools like this will take a "siege" mentality and keep outsiders...out. **Disclaimer: New Haven has changed a lot over the last 15 years, but there are still some very depressed areas near the school.

Aaron

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:29:19 -0500

ttorrison makes some good points, as does kristin, but you have to look at history to understand why harlem residents are 'up in arms' about the Great University's exapnsion. In 1968, many of us remember (or remember reading about) the takeover at Columbia. This was when (among other transgressions) the CU Administration wanted to bulldoze morningside park and put in a sports complex slash gymnasium, claiming "greater good" or some such BS. They may claim the same thing here, and it's no doubt that the land value will increase and the University's prestige will improve accordingly. The ironic tragedy, however, is the juxtaposition of one of the world's richest universities and the "crime and poor schools" that ttorison mentions. Maybe these "malcontents" are somewhat bitter about Columbia's continued expansion, which benefits only the "community's" rich real estate owners, drives up rent, and forces people further north. The average west harlem resident may get a nicer view, but along with it will come increased rent, increased cost of living, and increased presence of over-privileged, sheltered rich kids.kristin is absolutely correct about the neighborhood having plenty of character, and anyone who denies it simply hasn't been to West Harlem. The character may not jive with Columbia's image, but places like Dinosaur BBQ, Fairway, City College, WHGA, not to mention AFFORDABLE shopping outlets, provide the neighborhood with viable resources and help its residents get by. One needs only to compare Broadway from 110th to 120th street to Broadway from 130th to 140th street to see the difference Columbia's expansion would make. 110-120th: gourmet delis, niche shops, overpriced groceries; 130-140th: same products, half the price.

Kojak

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:27:19 -0500

Everyone has a different definition of what it means to be a ‘World Class’ University. You could determine what universities are world class by rankings, or what services they provide, etc. New York has several, but then that’s my opinion.

better than enron

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:25:10 -0500

I don't see what Columbia being a private university has to do with anything. They are still a non-profit. I wouldn't lump them into the same category as a huge for-profit company. If you want outrage, ask why Goldman Sachs needs tax breaks to build a new hq. And when you talk about using eminent domain for the good of "the general public" perhaps you are thinking too narrowly. If Columbia builds a new lab and a scientist makes a medical breakthrough does that not benefit society?

anonymass

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:07:08 -0500

Why doesn't Columbia just expand by building separate campuses (campi?), like, say, every other major university in the US? It could build a mini-SUNY brand but "world class" (whatever that means).

chris26

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:06:14 -0500

Did I hear somewhere that the #1 property owner in NY is the catholic church... #2 being columbia. was someone just fukking with me or is it for realz?

Zac

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:53:40 -0500

Let Columbia expand all it wants. But it had better pay its fair share to do so. The idea of Eminent Domain being used in this situation is absolutely abhorrent.

Columbia grad

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:44:32 -0500

Have you ever been to the place where the expansion is proposed? Yes, a McDonalds, warehouse storage locations, and car washes are true "neighborhood character".

ttorrison

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:22:17 -0500

So...keep Harlem ugly and poor? Let Columbia move its expansion to New Jersey? Please. The fact that a private developer wants to buy anything in Harlem should be welcomed by the 'community'. This is obviously a ploy of the current owners of parking lots and storage facilities and a few poorly maintained rental properties to increase their payouts. I have no sympathy for these rent-seekers. Don't get me wrong: they should receive high and fair prices for the trouble of moving. But who can deny the positive economic impact of an area having a world-class University in its midst? Look at the areas around Oxford in England, Palo Alto in California and most of Boston for crying out loud! Harlemites should be dancing in the streets with joy. Many of the the true ones, in fact, are. The opponents who don't own the land in question seem to be the usual agents of non-change. Malcontents who reflexively stand against anything that could bring 'gentrification'. Meanwhile, the area contininues to languish with crime and poor schools during the greatest real estate boom since the Lenape Indians owned the place. The area of Harlem that Columbia promises to transform has undergone many changes since the Dutch first surveyed the place. To keep this area in its current of decrepitude to please a few greedy property owners and/or to score some 'I fought The Man" points for these tired 'community activists' would be a tragedy.

snark alert

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:15:33 -0500

OK, Kojak. Maybe you could have told us just where you think NYU ranks globally instead of being snarky.

Kojak

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:11:24 -0500

"city's only world class university." Ehh, I wouldnt say that...

Sean

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:11:23 -0500

Columbia is not presently intending to utilize eminent domain. It has explored that avenue, and I believe such a tactic should be vehemently protested. But until they actually display intent to have the state invoke eminent domain, stop complaining.

eminent domain is a necessary evil

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:07:48 -0500

Considering the usual "blue states are better and smarter" and "New York is the greatest city in the world" postings on Gothamist you would think there would be more support for the city's only world class university. At some point you need to step back and realize you live in Manhattan. This isn't some little town frozen in time. Things change and evolve. And if any of you that live near Columbia patronize the bars and restaurants of the other gentrified neighborhoods then you're just being hypocritical.

Kojak

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:02:49 -0500

Welcome to Columbia University, the next NYU...

Monkey Fist

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:59:31 -0500

The idea of a PRIVATE university pushing for the state to exercise eminent domain, and pushing in such an underhanded way, makes my blood boil. Aren't these people aware at all of the huge backlash around the country after the New London case? Or do they think that even if they proceed down this road, the long term damage to their reputation will be limited?

kristin

Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:58:25 -0500

Eminent domain was created so that projects that broadly favor the general public could happen, ie, a much-needed new road or bridge. Expansion of an elitist institution that caters to an extremely small portion of the general population does not fall under this category. I am reminded of this conflict every day when the 1 train takes me past that storage facility around 125th street. Up until recently it had huge banners posted for subway riders to see that read, "Stop Eminant Domain, Pare a Columbia." I live on 135th between bway and riverside. While the project would raise my property value and "improve" the neighborhood I am vehemently againt Columbia to invoke eminant domain to do this. It will destroy the neighborhood character. People for it (who don't live in said neighborhood) say it's a wasteland with no character. Those people don't know what community nor beauty mean. -Kristin