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On what would have been his wedding day, Sean Bell's friends and family, as well as other activists, politicians, and members of the community, held a vigil/protest/rally for Bell, Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield. Bell was killed during a confrontation with the police after his bachelor party at the Queens strip club Kalua Lounge on Saturday morning. Guzman and Benefield were injured and remain in the hospital. The police fired 50 shots in less than a half minute on the friends' car; the three men were unarmed. An undercurrent of the shooting is race: The three men were black and Hispanic, while there were two white, two black and one Hispanic police officers.
The night's events are still being investigated, as the five undercover police officers who were involved have been reassigned to administrative duty. As comparisons are being made to the Amadou Diallo shooting, the NYPD has emphasized the the five officers were not involved with that incident (or other excessive gunfire incidents either). The NY Times speaks to experts who suggest that "contagious shooting" could have led to the volume of bullets aimed at the group.
The whole thing most likely took less than a minute. The officer who fired 31 times could have done so in fewer than 20 seconds, with the act of reloading taking less than one second, [former NYPD firearms instructor John C.] Cerar said. The 49 shots that followed the undercover detective’s first may have been contagious shooting, said one former police official who insisted on anonymity because the investigation is continuing.The Daily News reports that the officer who fired 31 times had never fired his gun before in his 12 year career.“He shoots, and you shoot, and the assumption is he has a good reason for shooting. You saw it in Diallo. You see it in a lot of shootings,” the official said. “You just chime in. I don’t mean the term loosely. But you see your partner, and your reflexes take over.”
The Post has this account of what supposedly happened:
Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.Guzman was allegedly overheard saying he was going to get his gun. However, witnesses say the police never identified themselves.When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said.
This left the cop's backup unit - which was just arriving on the scene amid shattering glass and the undercover's shouts of "He's got a gun!" - thinking they were being fired upon from inside the vehicle. That's when they returned fire with another 39 bullets. One 12-year veteran, a narcotics detective, pumped 31 bullets, authorities said.
Bell's grieving fiancee and the mother of his two children, Nicole Paultrie, walked alongside the Reverend Al Sharpton yesterday. When local politicians like State Senator Malcolm Smith and City Councilman Thomas White Jr. asked for calm and patience during the investigation, the crowd booed them and said they were angry.
The head of 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Noel Leader says that Police Commissioner Kelly has not been receptive to his group's attempts to reach out and blames Kelly of "turning a blind eye" to "police brutality in black communities." Though Kelly has not characterized the shooting as being justified yet, the president of the NYC's Detective's Endowment Associations Michael Palladino said, "Deadly force was being used against our detectives in the form of a motor vehicle.”
But according to NYPD rules, the officers may have been wrong to fire at a vehicle; a Times article states "...Saturday’s shootings may have violated department rules, which largely prohibit officers from firing at vehicles... officers can fire only when they or another person is threatened by deadly physical force, but not if that physical force comes from a moving vehicle alone. And then it's unclear whether the undercover cops had been drinking while at the Kalua Lounge for the narcotics and vice sting.
One thing that most people agree about is that Mayor Bloomberg has been much more open in communicating with the black community over the shooting, especially when compared to Mayor Giuliani's handling of the Diallo shooting. (Although it could be argued that it'd be hard for Bloomberg to do worse than Giuliani, as Rudy's actions mark the a nadir of NYPD-community relations.) Bloomberg was in Bermuda for the holidays, but he did call Bell's family to express his condolences, spoke to Sharpton and made sure Deputy Mayor Derek Walcott was present at the vigil. Upon his return to work today, Bloomberg and Kelly are meeting with the black community this morning; Sharpton told the Sun, "This is going to be a watershed case."
And the mother of Amadou Diallo was screening a documentary of her son's death in Manhattan when she heard about the shooting. The Daily News reports that Kadiatou Diallo will lend her support to Sharpton; she also said, "The NYPD also needs to be reminded that we thank them for the wonderful job they are doing, but they have to help us. This is why we need to raise awareness, until people at large in all communities will have good policing without killing people."
Photographs of people participating in vigil/protest and of Reverend Al Sharpton and Nicole Paultrie by Adam Rountree/AP; photograph of the Kalua Lounge by Tien Mao
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We are slowly inching towards Guiliani Gestapo like tactics. The gun rights group saw this coming all along. First he wants to take away illegal guns then he'll take away legal guns. All except for the police.
Is he back from the Bahamas yet?
My condolences to the family. What prompted the driver of the vehicle to run over the cop(s)? twice? While I believe the hail of gunfore was excessive, was this cop not defening himself when he was run over, twice? are all the details in the news or are we listening to hearsay? any thoughts?
I hope that people listen to Ms Diallo. Despite her senseless loss, she seems to be the voice of reason in all this.
Still, what a horrible thing to happen, and just before your wedding day.
uno, new york city is the safest city in america. why? one reason: strict gun laws. incidents like this are unfortunate, but hardly reason to turn new york into an nra wacko paradise.
Enforce the gun laws, don't go after legal non-criminal background checked and clean legel gun owners.
And, he wants to be president.
You really believe that because of gun laws, NYC is much safer? Read John Lott's books.
It is much safer. It has really strict gun laws and is the safest city in the U.S. Also, John Lott is a fool. Besides, nobody is going after legal gun owners.
I think you meant to say "read the thoroughly discredited and dishonest John Lott's books".
Charles Barron, NYC Councilman: "Don't ask us to ask our people to be peaceful while they are being murdered. We're not the only ones that can bleed."
Is anyone else worried that a city councilman appears to be inciting/endorsing violence against the police?
I think that what happend was really bogus.That should not have happend thats why it aint that many good BLACK men today because all these RENT-A-COPS killing all of them.As for the wife my condolences go out to her just keep your head to the heavens becuase he will be waitingt on you when you et there,the kids to.
The meteorologist says there is a 35% chance of riot over the next week.
Nope, not worried.
Why should we be? You know something we don't?
did someone knocked down your mailbox? isn't that a crime wave?
It just amazes me that the cops seem to be already tried and convicted in the court of Gothamist comments opinions, based on the kneejerk police-bashing in the last two days. Everyone needs to calm down. There will be a full investigation. We'll find out if the cops are guilty or not. I, for one, will keep an open mind to whatever facts come out, rather than making the hasty assumptions and even conclusions so many seem to have jumped to here. Of course, even after an investigation, there will always be those who complain it's a whitewash. Some people will never be satisfied.
There won't be a riot. You know why? Because 9/11 Whore isn't the mayor any more.
If he was, right about now Guiliani would have said at least two, probably three, really stupid things that would have inflamed the situation. He would have ignored Sharpton, he would have backed the cops before he had all the facts, and he would have sent the message to his white constituents that said, "See, they're all like that" and thus used this tragedy as a way to reaffirm his standing among his voter base.
I'm not a huge fan of Bloomberg, I'm not a huge fan of Sharpton either. But the fact that the two of them got together and said that they had a good meeting took a lot of the heat out of the situation. Proving that it really doesn't take much.
And maybe one day we'll find out the truth of what really happened Saturday night.
Who wants to make a bet the cops will get away scot free? The investigation will find the actions were justified.
You know why we are never satisfied? Because we've seen this before and we'll see it again.
So why even argue, brightliner?
The usual suspects: Sharpton, Rangel, Jesse, Clarence Norman who never seem to be around when a Afro-American police officer is killed...No cash to be made... The liberal press as usual only gives you the story of the poor, oppressed, marginalized and disenfranchised "youths" who tried to run down a police officer with their car 3 times after a night of too much Cristal and hookers
"Is anyone else worried that a city councilman appears to be inciting/endorsing violence against the police?"
Sadly it's nothing new for Councilman Barron, He's playing up to what he thinks is his constituency.
My deepest condolences to the family.
No matter how it happened, it's a tragedy.
I read Barron as advocating self-defense, which is recognized under law as appropriate in some circumstances, say, when someone is trying to murder you.
In other words, "jimmie the greek," you're one of those people who will never be satisfied unless the cops are instantly stripped of their badges and given the death penalty. Why bother with any investigation since you already know everything you need to know? I guess Justin Volpe got off scot-free because that's what always happens to cops, right?
Yeah, we'll do an investigation, Brightliner - and the only witness will be a drunken informant. How's that work for you?
first off, Volpe didn't kill anyone.
He shoved a toilet plunger into a guy's anus.
We need to weed out the BAD cops and bring in DashCams. Any good cop who's doing nothing wrong have nothing to worry about.
This Department loves technology, (which doesn't) so bring in more Cameras, only this time, use it on the Department. What's there to lose?
"I read Barron as advocating self-defense, which is recognized under law as appropriate in some circumstances, say, when someone is trying to murder you."
Trouble is, It's almost up there to G. Gordon Liddy's comments:
Doctortd, I think you forgot at least a few others in your "usual cast suspects": the cops, the dead man, no weapon (besides the car) found and the hail of bullets. And remember... Amadou Diallo WAS innocent. Also, at least two of the police officers are African-American.
I am a little confused as to why Mr. Bell would attempt to run away in the car; however, if he didn't commit a crime, panic might have set in (I'm getting married tomorrow, I can't afford to be arrested, blah blah blah), alcohol was probably an issue, and it was very late. Sometimes black folks panic when stopped by the police, too.
The whole thing is harsh... I feel particularly for the bride and their kids.
In Liddy's example it's unclear whether the ATF is taking lawful action but in any event it doesn't seem to be action that's putting one in imminent danger of death or serious injury, like, say, 50 bullets coming through your windshield. So someone following Liddy's advice would go to jail, and someone following Barron's advice would be exonerated.
From everything I've read upstanding citizens don't go to the Kalua Lounge for bachelor parties. That was Bell's first stupid move. Mowing someone down with his car (twice)was his second stupid move. If Bell was smart --or if his friends gave a damn about his well being as well as their own-- they would not have been partying at a place like that. Ask around and you'll hear this club was being probed for all things ilegal including prostitution, gambling and drugs. Throw in a bunch of undercover cops with itchy fingers that lead to "contagious shooting"(remember Amadou Diallo anyone?) Then mix in a group of drinking/tipsy minority males into the situation --innocent or not--and this was a time bomb just waiting to explode.
My condolences go out to Bell's two children who are now fatherless because of the domino-effect of stupidity. No bachelor party is worth losing your life over.
Head shots are too difficult. Go for the belly or crotch. signed Chris bartlow and snoop.
there's bad elements in ALL if not MOST strip clubs.
You think Scores is 100 percent clean? What about the exalted Rao's?
No gun was found and a person was killed. How bout that big question?
When a group of drunken idiots try to run over a cop they should expect to get blown away. The usual rabble rousers will make hay, and the usual Gothamist crybabies will strike their politically correct poses but the cops will probably be judged to have acted reasonably. And who cares how many bullets they used? If some guy were trying to run me down I'd keep shooting till I knew he was dead, too.
As for the gun control zealots around here - we had the same strict laws in the 70s and 80s. Care to explain why crime was so high then? Just admit that Rudy saved NYC already.
why are the cops policing strip clubs? the reason people go to strip clubs is to look at naked ladies, yell real loud, take drugs,drink alot and act like idiots. It looks like the cops are trying to shoot fish in a barrel which is fucked up. It could be anyone of us that got shot from exiting a strip club. I can understand if the place was a den of prostitution but if it's just a strip club then it's the same as a bar and the police shouldn't be on people's back if they just want to see titties bounce
timbnyc, in all respect, Councilman Barron's comment seems to be more about payback then self defense.
This is a really bad situation with too many questions.
Clearly, if they would have just decided NOT to have the bachelor party...
yeah, right...because of the twenty-odd bachelor parties I've been to, none have ended in having my car shot at 50 times.
Why is it OK to blame a victim if he is poor and black?
Questions & Answers:
Hmmmm the Kalua Lounge!!! We all can't be priests and nunns.
Anytime that a woman or man gets up in front of a crowd in his or her birthday suit and parades his or her jewels in front of strange people, you will have sleezy people frquenting a sleezy places. We have always paid to see freeks perform. The curious are just a freeky.
That is their choice. They had the right to be there.
It all sounds like a bust that went wrong. The cops fingered the wrong guys. The cops had a story and determined the outcome before giving the guys due process.
When there is a demand of goods and services there will always be people waiting patiently to to meet it. The cops didn't have the correct story and people. They trusted the wrong signals.
If everything were lined up properly the cops would have had a different outcome. Key Stone cops screw up everytime. They can't stop bumbling and bumping into problems.
when is running over a cop (twice) ever a good thing?
when is running over a cop (twice) ever a good thing?
[32] Posted by: edEx | November 27, 2006 3:44 PM
_________________________________
Killing another person is something I would try not to do at all cost. However, I was a member
of the armed forces for many years. I do
condone killing for the correct reasons.
What if they were running for their life. You weren't there. You don't know the story.
I don't know what happened Saturday morning. I don't know if the officers were right or if the young men were right. However, I would like any one to direct me to a similar case, anywhere in the US, that involves NON men of color. Does anyone know of a situation that involves white men pummeled with bullets from law enforcement officers?
I'm not doubting that it hasn't happened, but I haven't seen it and just need some reassurance that this and other attacks like it are not race related.
I'm not condoning the killing since i do not know the story. however, it seems by many reports that the men deliberately crashed into the police after he ID'd himself as a cop... plain clothes or not... the badge was allegedly out in plain site. also, there was one white cop, the others were black and hispanic.
Miquel - How many of those bachelor parties involved attempting to run over a police officer?
Rock - Three of the five cops in question were not white. Does becoming a cop automatically make you hostile to blacks? If you are not aware of any whites being shot by cops maybe that is because nobody riots when that happens.
"Cops were under investigation" my ass. I love how the media and Police Commissioner tries to spin that these cops were on some sort of stake out....when they actually were off duty at the titty bar getting liquored up. And then they overreacted with the possibility of someone have a gun nearby---which was not true.
Although I wasn't there, I doubt Sean Bell was creating trouble since he was getting married that day and that was the last thing he needed. He probably accidently rammed the cop car and was trying to gett he hell out of there.
In fact, did the cops even identify themselves?
I feel sorry for his family, wife and kids.
Of course, if Sean Bell was a WHITE male more people wouldn't be trying to put on the blame on him---typical. It's seems to become more common nature that when a case involves a BLACK male he is automatically blamed for anything gone wrong and no one else.
Is this another media hype?
This story is in hot.
I wonder if it would be told if he were white.
Of course, this story would be told if the victims were White. Just like those girls who came to NYC to party and died.
What makes you think otherwise?
Do you want to become the first victim as an experiment? You seem so interested.
Is this another media hype?
This story is in hot.
I wonder if it would be told if he were white.
[38] Posted by: John Morrison | November 27, 2006 7:10 PM
______________
I guess you need a little of attention. OK here is, your attention. I have read you "denial" thread. You would like for the focus to be on you. Here is your one second of sypmpathy. OK? OK your time is up. Go back to your misery. Nobody cares what you think.
'..."Cops were under investigation" my ass. I love how the media and Police Commissioner tries to spin that these cops were on some sort of stake out....when they actually were off duty at the titty bar getting liquored up. And then they overreacted with the possibility of someone have a gun nearby---which was not true."
To add to your speculation, which is a good one:
Maybe the cops were defending their territory. Maybe KALUA is one of their(cops) regular hangouts.
Maybe one of the cops didn't like the fact that the young guys from the bachelor party were enjoying their lap dance. Maybe guys from the bachelor party were taken to the back room and the cops didn't like that either.
"It's hard out here for a pimp...you aint' knowin.... when you gotta make the money fo the rent...you ain't knowing..." HUSTLE AND FLOW
You can't make this stuff up!
After reading most of these comments, none of you make sense that are behind the cops. Please please someone tell me when is it justified to fire 31 shots without stopping to see whats going on and who you are shooting at. It is plaing fact that there were so many bullets shot, the officers didnt even know who or what was shooting. They were shooting at themselves.
Before shooting they should have had a very very clear idea of what was going on. There will DEFINATELY be 3 HUGE lawsuits. I wish each officer that fired their gun was dismissed from the NYPD and of ever firing a gun again. It is so frustrating that some of you actually justify this. It makes me sick and GOD DOES NOT LIKE UGLY.
To doctord and brightline
you want to wait until all the evidence is in and the investigation concluded, before we determine innocence or guilt? How about after the dead man's funeral? these officers were in a titty bar, and as most cops do, they thought they were above the law. so after these cops got drunk, while off duty, they followed the dead man and his friends outside. they tried to provoke the dead man and the dead man went to his car to leave and a pissed off, drunk police officer felt dissed and shot the dead man. The police dept. wants us to wait; doesn't want us to make make any knee jerk assumptions. Here's the facts: 1 man dead, 2 critical, 5 - 7 police officers on paid vacation. put your mother or daughter or son in the dead mans place doctortd/brightline, if the tide were turned the dead man would have been "rodney king-ed" in the middle of the street and maybe never even made it jail. the police would have murdered him without an investigation or due process or a cooling down period or any of the shit you want us to do. city councilman Barron is right; we aren't the only ones that bleed. Until "they" realize this, things will never change. That's a very understandable premise.