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Reader Jim sent us this sign he saw at one of the 14th Street L stations that was "taped to a column in the same haphazard fashion as legitimate MTA service change notices." But it turned out not to be an MTA service notice but a warning from the Lesbian Avengers!
Now, just so we're clear, I have one simple rule: I never sit on the train when there is a woman standing. Ever. Period; the end; no exceptions. There are those who would say that in this day of equality and women's lib, I have every right to sit where and when I please. And they may be right. But it seems to me that no matter how liberated we make our womens, or how absolute our equality becomes, women will still always wear heels and occasionally carry our children to term for 9 months. Those two things alone earn them a seat in my book -- case closed.Good to know, even though there are many men AND women who refuse to give up their seats to pregnant women - the Today show proved that with their segment about rudeness!
But the sign was confusing; Jim continues:
It claims to be a warning, but how? According to the sign, the threat has already been carried out. So it's an ultimatum, then: stop, or we keep your train. But stop what? If the train has already been disrupted until such time as men stop hogging the seats, then how will we know when they've stopped hogging the seats?Yeah, it's a little confusing, unless the Avengers are trying to purposefully confuse perpetrators. Or maybe it's from a splinter group unhappy with the Avengers - the possibilities are limitless when you've got the Make Your Own MTA Sign Hack!Perhaps logic is not the lesbians' forte; or the avengers' forte. Or maybe it's just the Lesbian Avengers who have cognitive difficulty. Before I had time to decide, my train had arrived.
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It looks like it was made with the Make Your Own MTA hack. Still, I am tempted to ride the L from the first stop to the last, hogging as much space as possible.
Why is this hailed or even considered acceptable? Reader Jim's argument is paper thin:
There are those who would say that in this day of equality and women's lib, I have every right to sit where and when I please. And they may be right. But it seems to me that no matter how liberated we make our womens, or how absolute our equality becomes, women will still always wear heels and occasionally carry our children to term for 9 months.
Why cant we not judge this on a case by case basis? Some women wear sneakers and are in better shape than some men. Some are not. Shouldn't seat etiquette be based on age, handicap, or other more qualitative criteria? Furthermore, the statements of the so called "lesbian avengers" are derisive. We would not accept threats from a "gay mafia" towards women. It is a sad day when extremists of any gender or orientation can bully others.
I don't think it's about men just sitting in the seats. I think this is more directed at the guys who insist on sitting with their knees three feet apart. You know, because of their massive cocks or something. And then they also make sure to leave minumum 6 inches between themselves and the man next to them doing the same thing.
You know what I'm talking about. Normally you can fit about 6 people on one of those long benches. But sometimes you'll see a whole bench taken up by like three of these fuckers.
lesnians with too much free time in their hands...can't they just follow Peaches on tour and leave everyone else alone? F**OFF!
I don't think it's about men just sitting in the seats. I think this is more directed at the guys who insist on sitting with their knees three feet apart. You know, because of their massive cocks or something. And then they also make sure to leave minumum 6 inches between themselves and the man next to them doing the same thing.
I can't vouch for the truth of the story, I got it third-hand, but supposedly a woman who really wanted a seat went up to a man sitting in that knees-spread manner and kindly informed him that unless he was giving birth, it was not necessary to him to hog so much space.
Of course only a woman could say that. A man who tried the same would get himself a beating for his troubles.
what about all the space hogging pregnant women? they come on to the train with one kid in hand, one baby stroller on the other and groceries on top of that and they take up like 3 seats!!! why should I give up my seat to a pregnant woman who obviously is poor, living on welfare and who's children I have to subsidize? They are so fucking greedy!!! I want kids too, but I'm gonna make sure when I have kids I'll be able to afford a house and a car so my wife won't have to take the subway. It's called responsibility. I see all these people who are spawning and pop out 3 kids before they are 25 and playing playstation. those kids grow up to be neglected and criminals.
Kinda sounds like some commenters have never heard of the Lesbian Avengers. Just so y'all know, they were/are (to my understanding they weren't around anymore, but maybe this is a sign of a resurgence) a lesbian activist group from the 90's that did lots of in-your-face demonstrations a la Act Up.
someone taped a sign on the platform...big fuckin deal. i will continue to not give my seat up unless it's an elderly person
I know for a fact that after the Lesbian Avengers taped up that sign, they spent the rest of the day at a flower show, then shopped for pretty bows and finally back to their place where they stripped down to bra and panties and had a tickle fight. Then Michael Richards showed up and yelled racial epithets at everybody. Yeah, it was a real freakshow.
This sounds like 'equality plus.' Preggers lady, you get my seat. The same treatment I would give a disabled or elderly male. 24 y-o investment banker chick in Master of the Universe suit and heels, if you want my job don't expect chivalry. Women cannot eat the cake of equality and have the cake of femininity.
Lesbian Avengers - The logic train has blown through the station.
Wow. Humorless posters. I think this is actually very funny. They're not directing it at all men, just at men who hog seats by having their legs spread way the hell out with their Ipods blaring so as to ward off sharing space with anybody. We've all seen them, so why the anti-female tirades?
Chris - you're absolutely right. The Avengers have been around for a while.
The smegma who splay out their legs and press them against women they don't know were doing this long before ipods. Yeah guys, you have the right to a seat if it's free and there is no one elderly, pregnant or disabled who needs it more than you, but fucking leave us alone!!!
I think if I were a women I would not want random men constantly insisting that I was too weak to stand up for a 10-minute subway ride; but that's just me.
THIS is the issue they come up with?
Of course only a woman could say that. A man who tried the same would get himself a beating for his troubles.
So Peter, what's your explanation for why men do this? Women aren't the offenders...I swear I see some guys DELIBERATELY stretching their legs as wide as possible.
I personally love slipping into the space that isn't between two guys with their legs open so they are forced to sit next to each other and negotiate the openness without touching their legs. :)
The best thing to do when you encounter one of these knee-splayers is sit down right next to him and bump your leg into his until he puts it into an appropriate position.
Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but that has worked for me scores of times.
I like to stand on the train. I sit on my ass for eight hours a day at work - what is the big deal about standing?
That's the best the Lesbian Avegengers can do after 10+ years of silence? What a frivilous problem among the many more pressing problems facing the ladies today. Please, boys, no need to stand up--I'm not such a shrinking violet that I need that seat more than you do, no matter what the special-rights demanding Lesbian Avengers tell you.
Wow, folks. I think these posters are intended as funny and provocative. Something a little more thoughtful and fuzzy than "we hate men." A complicated but not too heady comment on "gender roles," a comment on how men tend to take up/over (physical, social) space (in general..in meetings, in social groups), and a little goof on the mta. Sounds like more of a "hey folks, pay attention to how you act towards other people" than something flatly directive.
It's clearly not a "special rights" statement...not actually about a group of women who want men to stand up and give them their seat. Jeez, people. Calm down.
The Avengers seem like a cool group... a sense of humor, willingness to disrupt a bit, give people something that's not super clear cut. And based on these comments, seems like they did get people talking, even if we're all too accustomed to super explicit, directive advertising to get it.
Humorless posters? My "tickle fight" bit from Seinfeld up there at #9 was a laugh riot, people! Don't make me go all "Kramer" on you..
The freedom of this country was won by the blood of men. Now with that said woman should stay in the kitchen and bedroom and men in the boardroom, case closed.
You can't have it BOTH ways. You got equal rights SO DON'T ASK FOR preferential treatment. I give up my seats only to elderly or pregnant women. No one else.
Why can't 'these' women just ask a man if they can have a seat?
People aren't mind readers. If you don't like that attitude, then move back to the Midwest!
A vagina is not a disability
I (white male) gave up my seat on the 6 to a frail elderly black woman. Nobody else in the car would move a finger. The smile she gave me was more than I needed. It's all about respect.
I have no problem giving my seat up to the following : A pregnant woman, Elderly Woman, Or Handicapped Woman ! All others are at my convenience ! I've stated this before, I pay the same $2 that all you femme nutcases pay and I will sit where the hell I feel like sitting ! I will do this for as long as my trip takes ! I will sit with my legs open to forefill my personal comfort level ! If any of you don't like it please do me a favor and lick my nuts, Followed by a blow job !
Pregnant, Elderly, Or Handicapped, That's it ! You Femme Nutcases can bitch all you want ! I don't care, I pay the same $2 you all pay and I'm going to sit where I want with my legs open if I want ! I don't do this to cause a problem, It's because it's comfortable for me . If you can't handle it then too bad !
Of course this sign was on the L train.
What about fat people? Man or woman, they usually take up at least 1 and a half seats on the trains and buses. Some airlines charge them extra because their fat encroaches on the seat next to them. Maybe the MTA should consider this policy also.
On that note, let’s take a quick survey. Do you consider a fat person disabled? If you see a fat person struggling to stand, do you give up your seat?
a fat person is definitely disabled, he lacks the ability to put down the twinkies
i'm glad we got your attention.
-GRL
(lesbian avenger)
yeah, the L train wasn't a coincidence. glad, you caught that, if not the point!
Well, I'm all for getting up, but when the arthritis in my knee is acting up too much, I don't get up for anyone under 50, unless they are inded pregnant or hobbled worse than me. And I also loved how when my arm was in a sling for 3 weeks, people were content to let me hang onto the pole for dear life, and even bumped into to the bad arm! Consideration HAS to go both ways.