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Derek Jeter didn’t win the MVP award yesterday. That isn’t a huge surprise because there was another worthy candidate, David Ortiz. The problem is, he didn’t win it either, Justin Morneau did and once again the baseball writers have messed up.
They do this a lot. Pedro Martinez didn’t get the MVP award once because some writers didn’t include him on their ballots since they felt pitchers shouldn’t be able to win the MVP. Same thing happened to Hideki Matsui when he lost the Rookie of the Year award because some voters decided he wasn’t really a rookie. In both instances, they didn’t like the rules so they just ignored them.
Yesterday, Joe Cowley, a writer who had been suspended from MVP voting once already, listed Jeter as the sixth-best player in the AL behind Morneau, Jermaine Dye, Johan Santana, Frank Thomas and David Ortiz. Not only is Jeter’s spot on the ballot a joke, but how can you vote for two players from the same team ahead of him?
They have to fix this for the good of the game. Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were left off of ballots when they were eligible for the Hall of Fame. Too many of these writers have agendas and it ruins the integrity of the voting process. Cut their voting power, get some players and managers involved, but fix this before we have to endure more controversy.
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Morneau wasn't even the most valuable player on the TWINS. Not even SECOND! I'd put Santana and Mauer ahead of him.
Seems like they used the bread and butter stats of HRs and RBI, primarily, in evaluations; while Ortiz led in those, Cowley implied the Twins might not have made the post season without Morneau, and the Yanks had enough superstars to win without him. I suppose he overlooked Matsui and Sheffield's absences most of the year!
I wonder if this is the same Joe Cowley who once pitched a nine-walk no-hitter.
www.forgotten-ny.com
The Twins made their run when Morneau started raking the ball with authority. That's what always ranks highest among MVP voters.
It seems to me the only ones who have to "endure" this horrible travesty of justice are Yankee fans who cry and scream every time they don't get all the accolades. Suck it up.
Derek Jeter is one of the most overrated and over-hyped baseball players of our generation.
Granted, Jeter is a great player and is very deserving of his All-Star status. However, I am tired of the media, especially ESPN, portraying him as some sort of baseball immortal. Jeter is an above-average player who has benefited immensely from his situation on the team of the ‘90s. Let me put is this way: if Jeter were on the Royals, he wouldn’t be nicknamed “Captain Clutch” or “Mr. November.”
Here’s an example of the kind of undeserving accolades Jeter receives from the media. Do you remember the play Jeter made on July 1, 2004 against the Red Sox? The one where he caught the ball in fair territory and somehow managed to dive into the fans as if he was crowd-surfing at a rock concert? The official MLB website remarks, “He emerged from the stands with a bruise on his right cheek, a cut on his chin, and a new highlight to be seen for years to come.” This was a good play, but Jeter made it extraordinary by unnecessarily diving into the stands. I quickly became sick of repeatedly watching his swan-dive on SportsCenter and reading about it online. Again, if SS Royce Clayton of the Colorado Rockies were to make this play, it would get maybe half of the attention.
The media’s obsession with Jeter’s “patented” jump-throw from deep in the hole is another example of how overrated the guy is. Many baseball fans consider Jeter to be an exceptional defensive player and point to his 2 Gold Gloves (2004 and 2005) as proof. The reality is that Jeter is an average defender who benefits from the national spotlight in New York City. Jeter’s fielding statistics prove this notion.
Yes, I’ve read Moneyball too. I know that the subjectivity of fielding statistics makes them hard to use quantitatively. For example, there’s the classic question of how one defines an error. However, despite their drawbacks, I believe they can be used as general references.
Jeter’s career fielding percentage is .975. According to www.baseball-reference.com, the fielding percentage that an average player would have in the same amount of opportunities [(A + PO) / (A + PO + E)] is virtually the same at .972. Jeter’s range factor per game [(A + PO) / G] is 4.09, while the league average is slightly better at 4.15. While statistics cannot capture every intricacy of fielding, I think they can be used to get a general idea of a player’s skill, or in Jeter’s case, lack of skill.
How many commercials and pre-game shows have you seen in the playoffs lauding Derek Jeter for his playoff accomplishments and ability to step it up in crucial situations? The idea that Jeter performs at a higher level during the playoffs is yet another myth. Here are some career statistics that prove this:
Regular Season 162 Game Avg. AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB 655 123 206 33 5 18 81 23 6 68 116 .314 .386 .461 302 SH SF IBB HBP GDP 6 4 2 11 15 Postseason 162 Game Avg. AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB 650 114 200 25 4 22 66 22 4 70 127 .307 .379 .463 299 SH SF IBB HBP GDP 11 4 - 7 -
Jeter’s postseason numbers are virtually the same as his regular season averages, and are slightly worse, if anything. Forget the importance of Jeter’s record for having the most postseason hits in history (142). How many hits would the Babe have tallied if he had played in the ALDS and ALCS rounds of the playoffs? Further, Jeter’s hit total is more of a product of having extremely talented teammates who allowed him the opportunity to come to bat so frequently.
The media’s lovefest with Jeter is not going to stop anytime soon. Sadly, I know he will be a first-ballot Hall of Fame inductee. Bill James has compiled a few measures to determine both a player’s deservedness to be in the HOF and likelihood of reaching it. The first test, named the HOF Standards Test, is based on a complex evaluation of a variety of batting stats, mostly percentages and lifetime statistics. It shows how deserving a player is of HOF status. The average HOF player has a score of 50. Jeter’s is 45.9.
James’ second test is called the HOF Monitor Test, and is mostly concerned with single-season batting statistical benchmarks, postseason involvement and awards won. This test reveals how likely it is for a player to reach the HOF. A score of 100 means the player has a good chance of getting in, and a score of 130 assures that the player is a virtual lock. Jeter’s score is 161.5.
The disparity between how deserving Jeter is of HOF status and how likely he is to be inducted clearly shows how overrated he is. While his personal achievements might merit HOF consideration, he will almost certainly be enshrined in Cooperstown due to the hype that surrounds him.
Make no mistake; Derek Jeter is a great player. I respect his skills and the professionalism he brings to the ballpark every day. It’s not his fault he is surrounded by amazing teammates and is so overrated. I blame the institution of sports media. The media loves to latch onto one player on a successful team and undeservedly make him into an icon. Just look at Tom Brady.
People who only look at numbers to judge a player don't really understand the game and what being a "valuable" player is all about.
Valuing numbers above all else means you'd want Barry Bonds on your team. Or thought that getting Jason Giambi was a great decision.
Not saying Jeter is the greatest player in baseball history either, but you have to look at more than just numbers gleaned from a bunch of complex mathematical equations that don't tell you what watching a player every day will.
Funny how, almost invariably, the Yankees get the short end in MVP balloting.
Just as an exmaple: When Ron Guidry won 25 games with a 1.78 ERA, he got the Yankees to win the pennant by 1 game. That says MVP right there but the writers said that he was going to win the Cy Young anyway and he didn't play every day. Then, more than once after that, they've given the MVP to the likes of Roger Clemens or other pitchers because "without him the team would not have been able to compete".
Talk about a double standard.
Hey, Spam... blah blah blah blah numbers blah blah blah blah OPS blah blah blah blah metrics blah blah blah blah Bill James blah blah blah blah hate blah blah blah blah Yankees blah blah blah blah hate blah blah blah blah Yankees blah blah blah blah Jeter blah blah blah blah winner blah blah blah blah four rings blah blah blah blah hate winners
Gary - completey right. Absolutely agree with you.
Morneau was the best player on the Twins (better #s than Mauer, after he peaked with a .398 avg or something) for their ENTIRE hot streak, which started in mid June or so and lasted until they got swept by the A's in the playoffs. Stop talking about Jeter. Just stop. Ortiz or Jeter for MVP? do you even watch baseball besides the yankees?
Morneau had 2&1/2 players on his team. Mauer, Santana, and an unhealthy Liriano. Take ANY of those guys off the team and the Twins are finished. Guess what they did this year: Santana got Cy, Mauer Batting title, Morneau MVP. If Liriano was healthy, he would have won ROY too. Notice a pattern? Sounds about right to me.
Take jeter off the team (even when everyone was hurt) and the yankees would have EASILY won the east, no question. Everyone realized boston sucked by the end of june.
Baseball really needs to be fixed.
The two best teams did not play each other in the World Series, there are too many teams and too little talent, and Barry Bonds needs to be banned for cheating and being an asshole.
The Twins are one of those teams that should be eliminated, along with the Brewers, Philles, Nationals, Royals, Diamondbacks, Devil Rays, and Marlins.
The numbers you are about to read have been endlessly trucked out in recent weeks, but they bear repeating here:
Through June 7, Morneau was hitting .235 with five home runs and 23 RBI, and the all-but-out-of-it Twins were stumbling along with a 25-33 record.
From June 8 through the end of the season, Morneau hit .362 and he knocked in 92 runs, the highest total in the American League during that stretch.
And guess what: From June 8 on, the Twins posted the best record in the majors (71-33).
"Funny how, almost invariably, the Yankees get the short end in MVP balloting."
hmmm...but didn't Arod win the MVP just last year? And then was rewarded this year with a chorus of boos all season long. stay classy Yankee fans!
what a joke...ortiz even deserved it more, and that's coming from a yankees fan. dude hit .320 with 34 hr's, 130 rbi, and only a .375 obp. nowadays about 10 guys do that in each league.
Even the guy who put Jeter sixth can be forgiven. You can make a solid argument that all the players ahead of him -- even Frank Thomas -- were more valuable to their teams.
That's the old "value to team" vs. "best statistical season" argument, and that's not going anywhere.
American Baseballs sucks. It's all about stats and individual awards these days. The World Series doesn't even mean anything anymore. This is why football is better. Winning the Superbowl actually means something. I don't even remember who won the World Series this year.
The st. louis cardinals won the world series
Spam,
Why don't you put your statistical wizardy to this season? That's what I did. That's what I do ever year to judge MVP candidates. By the two best predictive stats for MVP (Runs Created and Win Shares), Jeter was the best player in the AL. Ortiz shouldn't even really get a mention because by some measures (Runs Created for instance) he was a less productive offensive player than Jeter. On top of that Jeter plays a crucial up the middle position. It should've been between Mauer and Jeter and no one else. It's as simple as that.
You didn't really address the Jeter "hype" over his 2006 season, which is odd because that is what the post is about. Do you think he deserved to win the MVP? If not, why not. By what statistical measure was anyone better?
When i wrote above that "that's what I do every year when I judge MVP candidates," I should have been more clear. In fact, looking at Win Shares and RC is what I do to create a list of candidates not to finally judge them. I fully understand that there are limitations to both of these stats, but they point me to a group of candidates from which I would chose a MVP.
Sorry......
2006 Jeter: AVG.343 HR 14 RBI 97 SB 34
2006 Ortiz: AVG.287 HR 54 RBI137 SB 1
2006 Morneau. AVG.321 HR 34 RBI130 SB 3
I guess we might as well address your ridiculous rant against Derek Jeter as a HOF candidate. You used Jeter's numbers through 2005. His HOF Monitor is 192, not 162. That puts him 7th in the ranking of players not yet eligible for HOF consideration (behind Barry Bonds, ARod, Ivan Rodriguez, Griffery, Piazza, and Roberto Alomar). Other than Pudge and Arod, those players are either retired or on their last legs. Jeter will easily surpass Alomar (with whom he is virtually tied), Piazza, and Griffrey. Probably Pudge within a year or two as well. So he'll be behind Bonds and Arod on the HOF monitor ranking. If Bonds were clean he'd be considered the best player to play the game perhaps behind Ruth and A-Rod is a first ballot guy even if he were to retire today.
So, basically, what are you talking about? Why are you so dumb? And why can't you read or think critically? Those are the questions I would like to pose to you (Cowley and the other moron writers can answer them too if they can manage to string two cogent sentences together).
It isn't the fact that Jeter got robbed (I wouldn't have said anything if Mauer had won) that gets me angry, it's the fact that there are people out there completely incapable of formulating a sensical argument or making analytical decisions that really bothers me.
The sheer convergence of stupidity around the time of the MVP announcements is always astounding. I think Spam took the cake this year.
As far as HOF Career Standards goes. Here is the actual list of players not yet eligible for the Hall.
Bonds, ARod, Piazza, Thomas, Bagwell, Griffrey, Manny, Larry Walker, Sheff, Palmero, Biggio, Pudge, Rickey Henderson, Jeter.
One more season like 2006 and Jetter will pass Henderson, Palmero, Walker. Again, most of those players on the list are either retired or on their last legs, Jeter will pass most of them. Everyone but ARod, Bonds, and Manny. How do the James HOF standards systems show any disparity?
Are the St. Louis Cardinals in Arizona? Isn't Matt Leinart their start pitcher?
Are the St. Louis Cardinals in Arizona? Isn't Matt Leinart their start pitcher?
Jeter might not have deserved to be MVP, but he should have been top 4 in voting. No way to justify giving him 6th place. I am a Mets fan and always thought Jeter was overrated, but he had a great year. Mourneau and Ortiz probably had better years than Jeter, and they didnt have the protection in the lineup that Jeter had, so there is not much of an argument for Jeter in that sense. In terms of the Hall of Fame, there is no debate - Jeter gets in, no questions asked.
Baseball Sucks,
Ok so my overuse of the dramatic continued questioning device was worthy of mockery, but you suck. So, ah, whatever.
Spam,
You suck. Cowley sucks. I am going to put on some Derek Jeter Driven Eau de Toilette and go out and get drunk.
By the way the answer to my question about HOF rating disparity lies in the fact that players get points for playing C, 2B, SS and that Jeter played on tons of postseason teams. I'll conceed that he shouldn't get points for the Gold Glove awards that he won and didn't deserve (just like virtually every other GG winner).
Yet as you can clearly see, Jeter will be near the top of both those list and will be a deserving first ballot HOFer. God you suck.
"The one where he caught the ball in fair territory and somehow managed to dive into the fans as if he was crowd-surfing at a rock concert? / This was a good play, but Jeter made it extraordinary by unnecessarily diving into the stands."
Spam, I think he "somehow" managed to end up in the stands because he was running full speed up to the point where he was about three strides away from the fence. Many other players would have chosen to go with the ol' excuse-me slide with the glove lamely "outstretched", but he kept going so he could actually *make the catch*. You can make all the arguments and statistical comparisons you want about Jeter -- and you did, and they merit serious consideration -- but I don't think you can say the guy is or ever has been a showboat in any way, shape or form. Nor do I believe he'd risk serious injury by knowingly diving at full speed into metal and hard plastic, just to make it "look good".
Your use of this play as an slam-dunk example of over-ratedness reveals either a bias against the guy -- which you of course are entitled to -- or a lack of any real knowledge about the game. People can quote Bill James and all that other crap as much as they want, but it usually means they've had their heads buried in all those books for too long instead of actually watching (or, horrors, *playing*) a game every now and then. Then, typically, somebody writes a computer program to prove that Sid Bream should have batted leadoff for the Pirates. Give me a break.
BTW good point by "88 D. Strawberry". A-Rod wasn't even the most valuable player on the *team*, as anyone who watched the team even a little would have known, let alone in the "lig".
Morneau had 20 more homers and 33 more RBIs than Jeter and his .559 slugging percentage dwarfed Jeter's .483. Quit whining New Yorker's. Mornneau was better! Final