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Well, there's nothing like blaming the victim. The NY State Public Transportation Safety Board says that the August death of Natalie Smead, who fell into a gap at the Woodside LIRR station, was her own fault. The board issued a report saying that 19 year old Smead had been drinking with friends earlier and lost her balance when she fell in the 8-inch gap. When her cousin tried to help her, apparently Smead "pulled away" and crawled under another platform, where she was hit by a different train.
The board's commissioner Thomas Madison Jr. said, "This was certainly a tragic and terrible accident and our heartfelt condolences go out to Ms. Smead's family ... but there's also a level of personal responsibility when you ride public transportation." Well, if it's not a problem at LIRR, why are other gaps being mended?
The Smead family's lawyer Robert Sullivan said the report was a "cover up" and added, "To put in, as the cause, alcohol and nothing else, is unbelievable." He said the train doors closed on Smead twice, which could have jostled her and that the MTA was basically "investigating itself. Also interesting: When Newsday measured platform gaps, they found instances of 9-, 10-, and 11-inch spaces.
The Smeads are suing the LIRR for $5 million. Smead's death has also sparked other people who have fallen into LIRR platform gaps to sue the agency.
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She certainly looks like a drunken tart.
OMG 9 inch gap OMG!!! SCARY!!!!
If you are paying the least bit of attention to what you are doing, it is impossible to fall into the gap.
The girl's blood alcohol content level was .23. That means that almost a quarter of her bloodstream was alcohol. That's a HUGE impairment. Where is the outrage at/of the parents for an underage minor drinking Red Bull & vodka. I'm sorry she died, but if her death can teach others not to get drunk and do stupid stuff, then she did not die in vain. And if it can teach Americans to do something they never do, own up to their mistakes, then it is a public service announcement from the grave.
so does this pave the way for drunken drivers and collisions?
"The girl's blood alcohol content level was .23. That means that almost a quarter of her bloodstream was alcohol. "
Whoa there. While I do agree with the statement that .23 BAC is a "huge impairment", your math is incredibly suspect. It means that almost a quarter OF A PERCENT of her bloodstream was alcohol. That's how BAC is measured. No one has ever had 23% alcohol in their blood. Ever.
Hey idiot commenter #2:
.23 means that there were 2.3 grams of alcohol in her bloodstream for every 1000 grams of blood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol
How dumb do you have to be to think a quarter of a person's bloodstream can be ethyl alcohol?
She also DISOBEYED ORDERS. They told her not to move--the train was stopped, for God's sake. And she crawled to the other side and got hit. And for this the taxpayers have to pay $5 million to her parents--the very people who raised this fool?
"No one has ever had 23% alcohol in their blood. Ever."
I Did.
This ignores all the sober people who have fallen in the gap and the fact that the LIRR had a big gap when they shouldn't. What is really needed is a truly independent investigation, i.e. not one done by any branch of New York State government.
stoopid white girl, my fams work on the LIRR, dey iz good peoples!
They're closing the gaps because they keep getting sued by people who can't be responsible for their own actions.
Even if Smead were blameless for the fall - which a bac that high would make unlikely - it wasn't the gap that killed her. She ignored those trying to help her, crawled onto another track and was hit by a completely different train. Should the suit include the LIRR's audacity to be running trains in general, as well?
I stand corrected, but check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content
And from another website:
0.20 BAC: Feeling dazed/confused or otherwise disoriented. May need help to stand/walk. If you injure yourself you may not feel the pain. Some people have nausea and vomiting at this level. The gag reflex is impaired and you can choke if you do vomit. Blackouts are likely at this level so you may not remember what has happened.
0.25 BAC: All mental, physical and sensory functions are severely impaired. Increased risk of asphyxiation from choking on vomit and of seriously injuring yourself by falls or other accidents.
In any case, she was DRUNK and she payed the consequences for her own actions.
Her judgment was impaired by the alcohol in her system, causing her to fall. Her drunkenness also contributed to her walking to the other side and getting hit by an oncoming train.
It’s pretty clear cut as I see it. Nonetheless, her family might get a little money from the lawsuit out of pity, but not that much.
But in actuality, her family doesn’t deserve shit. its a (stupid) tragic accident.
Sorry to be so cold, but its true.
When this story first hit the news, didn't they report she was disoriented and that is why she refused help? This makes sense. If she was drunk, crawling under the platform probably made sense to her at the time.
I have to say, I find this lawsuit suspect as well. Are these gaps new? How many people over the years have fallen into the gaps? How many of those people were inebriated? This is tragic, but, I think the report is correct. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility in riding public transportation.
drunken accidents do not fair well in court especially in new york state.
"How dumb do you have to be to think a quarter of a person's bloodstream can be ethyl alcohol?"
Apparently not as dumb as someone who has to resort to name calling to make themselves feel superior to someone else. I suggest you find a therapist to discuss the issues that haunt you in the waking hours. If you are not an adult, then I forgive you for the name calling. Now get off the computer and do your school work before you end up at the local fast food counter where the only English you'll need is "You want fries wit dat?"
"the MTA was basically "investigating itself"
Of course!. It's like having had the nazis investigate allegations of prisoner abuse at Auschwitz. Whadda YOU think would be the result?.
Lots of people get drunk and go places on the train. That's one of the good things about having public transportation in this city. Yes, Smead could have fallen anywhere in her state of impairment but the city should not be helping by not doing anything about the gaps. It's negligence.
Sorta evil comments across the board here to accuse the parents of some sort of purposeful wrong doing. OH, I get it; you are all so above it, and Lordy No! you've never been drunk enough to make a bad choice. Of course not. Drunk or not, she shouldn't have been able to fall through. The gaps are big enough for 18 year old girls, they are big enough for 12 year old kids and they are big enough to be a problem that the LIRR and the MTA and the city need to make changes. Also, if the city is so down on drinking why don't they enforce underage drinking laws in their bars a little more stringently? Oh right, because alcohol is taxable.
Think how many drinks you could buy with $5 million......
If she had bigger boobs, she would've been caught in the gap instead of falling right through.
Let this be a lesson to all those flat chested women out there!
At some point, people have to take responsibility for their own actions. She chose to drink to excess; she bore the consequences of that action.
Sad but, C'est la vie.
There was an 8in gap. If you read the article, gaps are designed to be 7in or greater so there won't be a possibility of the train hitting the platform when it is coming into the station. On LIRR trains the gap between the door sill and the platform (8in in this case) is smaller than the gap between the rest of the train and the platform. In order to close this larger gap (which is probably the one she fell through) the trains would have to be redesigned. I agree that the door to platform gaps should be reduced at other stations where they are larger, but that was not the case here. Modifications to the platform would not have helped in this case. Should MTA replace all of their trains to make up for lack of common sense?
gap has a good point. They need that gap since they sometimes run express trains on the local platforming tracks at high speed. If it was any more narrow it would knock into the platform.
Have you ever seen pictures of people riding on the outside and rooftops of trains? It's usually in relatively poor areas of the world where the infrastructure isn't very good. People in those parts of the world take responsibility for their own lives and if they fall off the train, they don't sue. Not that they could afford to or have the legal system to do so.
My point is, that our legal system is not there to fill in the gaps to people's lack of common sense.
Unfortunately, you can't take away people’s rights to be idiots.
"That's how BAC is measured. No one has ever had 23% alcohol in their blood. Ever."
Maybe Keith Moon.......
Sorta evil comments across the board here to accuse the parents of some sort of purposeful wrong doing.
Doesn't seem to me as though anyone's accusing the parents of some purposeful wrong doing. Rather, folks here are saying that the MTA should not be held responsible for the wrong doing when this girl was practically passed out drunk AND ignored instructions intending to help her. Why should the parents get money from this lawsuit because the daughter was the one who was in the wrong?
So the penalty for riding the trains drunk is death? Should I drive instead?
If a person can't be aware of their surrondings and walk correctly they don;t deserve to have a law suit in their honor. This is ridiculous.......all these people are suing because of their own stupidity.
I move to counter-sue these people for being terrible human beings.
No, #28, the penalty for riding the train drunk is not death. The penalty for riding the train drunk and not having the wherewithal to know your surroundings while not being intelligent or mature enough to know your limitations along with not having the presence of mind to listen to instructions when your life is on the line is death.
Well, seeing as the LIRR is now on a rider education kick, I suppose we'll now be following "Watch the Gap" with "Don't Drink and Ride."
Her dad's going to have to face up to the fact that his daughter was culpable in her own demise. If she was that wasted it could have been anything. That evil, malicious gap was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
She deserved death just for being on her way to a Dave Matthews concert.
Pregaming much?
Sorry, but in NY State law (and all tort law), remedying a situation after an incident cannot be considered akin to guilt. You cannot hold fixing the gap after the fact against them.
But you can hold self-intoxication against the kid.
If the family is really with it, they'll file against whomever served her. Now that's a correlation that needs to be made.
By the way, drinking is allowed on LIRR trains, which is another fact the Smead family lawyer is bringing up to show the LIRR's negligence.
Apparently an employee of the LIRR held Ms. Smead down and made her drink. Or at least, that would have to be the case for that argument to hold up. What if she walked out of a bar into traffic and was hit by a car? Should the city put up fences between the sidewalk and the road?
I'm not judging a dead woman -- goodness knows I've been stupidly drunk before -- but the lawsuit may be a bit much. It was an accident, the LIRR is working to close smaller gaps, and I hope the family can move on with their lives.
"Sorry, but in NY State law (and all tort law), remedying a situation after an incident cannot be considered akin to guilt. You cannot hold fixing the gap after the fact against them."
There's no "guilt" in tort law, only liability. You're right, though - subsequent remedial measures are not admissible into evidence in NY.
The many complaints/injuries concerning the gaps preceding the death will, however, be admissible. The LIRR was entirely on notice that these were a hazard and chose not to fix them. Her intoxication will be taken into account, but is unlikely to relieve the LIRR of culpability entirely (should this even go to trial).
Wow, this really erodes the family's credibility. She was wasted.
Personally I was looking forward to other LIRR improvements, but now it's being squandered on out-of-court settlements and gap repair... why don't we just install glass walls on the platforms while we're at it?
#21 (Jeebus),
d00d, what are you talkin bout? Her titties are NICE. They're the kind that fit just right in the hands and have a nice, soft weight to them. Sweet, sweet titties.
I love the holier-then-thou attitudes I'm seeing on all the boards about this event.
One of the reasons public transportation exists is so people don't drink and drive. I know people forget that one but it's important to us in the anti-drunk driving world. It is a real solution to our problem but it's only in large metro areas and not usually convienent enough to make a dent in the problem. You all are lucky in a way because you don't HAVE to drive if you don't want to. You can go out with your friends and maybe have one more beer then you should have because your bonding went on a little longer then expected. Then you can get on the train and/or a bus and get home safely. Well theoretically since there's huge holes people are falling down.
I get your personal responsability point. Really I do but almost 900 people in a 10 year period should be a lot in anyone's book. Go seek out who those 900 are and I think you'll find they're not all drunks. Most of them are elderly and small children. I even saw a bunch of blind folks in that mix. Should they practice better social responsability? Should they have thought twice before being blind? Or old? Or a kid?
I know it's the American way to judge everyone from afar but think about what if it was your daughter, drunk or not, or your grandfather or you someday. I've seen crowds pushing and shoving both intentionally and unintentionally all over the country at train and metro stations. Accidents happen. While you can stamp and complain that your monthly pass might go up a little because of one drunken tourist, just remember the other 880 something people that have also fallen into the gap. Imagine how easy it would be for a mother carrying a child to get bumped the wrong way at the wrong time and both of them tumbling down the hole. Imagine what you would have done if you had one too many and fallen down a hole. I doubt you'd be as clear headed as all you arm-chair emergency response professionals think you are!
And for Christ's sake people; value human life for once! Her name is Natalie and she was a human being not a robot.