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Longtime readers may remember the Vision42 plan we covered at the beginning of 2005. Sponsored by The Institute for Rational Urban Mobility, the project would close 42nd Street to cars and lay down a light rail from river-to-river. Yesterday, Vision42 released their economic benefits study, which, if you believe it, says that a light rail would cost $500m, but generate more than a billion dollars in value. Don't get too excited yet-- according to the Sun, the project hasn't gained a lot of traction:
First, though, Vision42 will need to garner support from elected officials in the city, which up to this point has been largely unsuccessful. In 2004, the city council speaker, Christine Quinn, cosigned a letter to Mayor Bloomberg asking him to review the project, but the mayor has yet to contact the group, Ms. Warren said.Obstacles also may lie in the proposed extension of the no. 7 subway train between the Hudson Yards and Times Square that would cost the city $2.1 billion. The extension would make crosstown travel more accessible to New Yorkers, which could lead city officials to view the construction of light rail as a needless expense.
However, Vision42 vehemently argues that the light rail would complement the 7 train. "Subways are for long-distance travel, while the light rail is for low flow pedestrian travel," Ms Warren said.
Sounds like less expensive plans, like the Bus Rapid Transit Corridors, might be easier to actually get built.
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transportation alternatives seem to be the flavor of the week... never gonna happen, alalthough id love it too.
besides that it is just a good idea and will save money, maybe would could disallow tourists on the 7, and they could take the light rail and stay out of my way.
to*
wouldn't it also make all the streets around 42nd street have much, much worse traffic? and those streets are a lot smaller and less equipped to handle that traffic. and if traffic is still supposed to flow n/s, what is the point in the end?
and besides, why should we add yet another mode of transportation that prevents people from actually getting off their fat asses and walking for once. god forbid anyone walk crosstown!
a rise in crime, crime, crime.
how do these "studies" get financed? I mean, really, this is one of the more pie in the sky urban planning wankery that really doesn't help anything because it will never get done!
Hey, who won the Meatloaf tickets???
hmmm,
It appears there will be more room for pedestrians on 42nd St if this was to happen, which it won't, but still it would technically lessen the traffic on other streets.
obviously there have been times in New York's history where we have said, "Yes, yes, yes."
Every subway stop and tall building had to be approved and in some cases financed. We said yes then, we may say yes in the future.
Granted, the light-rail is for shorter distance travel, and apparently the subway for greater distance travel; but then what of the Shuttle train? Seems silly, in the end, to have the 7 running underneath 42nd Street, the S shuttling between TS and GCT, and ALSO the Lightrail, which clearly services the East side of 42nd since nothing else does...
I recall a MTA display in Grand Central Terminal maybe ten years ago that showed plans for a light rail line on 42nd Street that never got off the ground.
Apparently Ms Warren who said, "Subways are for long-distance travel, while the light rail is for low flow pedestrian travel," hasn't been to places like Toronto or even over the river in New Jersey where "light rail is not for low flow pedestrian travel," but instead as another transportation option. Ms Warren seems to want some sort of people mover instead of something more practial that could benefit the greater scheme of things and isn't stopping every block.
This plan is just pie in the sky and would make traffic worse. If you want to reduce traffic use the London model of congestion pricing and don't close major crosstown links.
Kevin, I don't know if they had NIMBYs in 1900 but if they did, they must have been powerless. How else can you explain Seventh Avenue South?
This will never happen if only for the simple reason that the companies that spent billions building new office towers in Times Square are not going to allow something that makes their lives more difficult e.g. disrupt the speed of livery cab service.
Where would the partybikes with fat tourists go?
Bad idea, just more traffic for the side streets and avenue. Plus this would not decrease tourist traffic anyway.
Better yet, close all streets in Midtown to passenger auto traffic. Just taxis, busses, emergency vehicles, and trucks making deliveries to Midtown businesses.
Could someone explain to me why you would need to drive a car in Midtown? Or why the city should allow it, given how congested the place is?
As for the tourists, maybe its time to come out with a brochure, available at the airports and Penn Station, about how to walk on a crowded sidewalk.
SInce they built a light-rail in Houston a few years ago, something like 14 people have been hit by the train. This is in Houston, where NO ONE walks. I imagine that the death toll would skyrocket here.
Here’s the instructions for Tourists:
Dear Midwest/Southern Goober or Eurotrash Visitor,
1. Do not stand in a group on any NYC street corner. Never. Ever. New Yorkers do not come to your town to stand in the middle of the road and block car traffic. If you would like to stop to talk to the rest of your group, please stand along side the curb or the building at the opposite side of the sidewalk.
2. You will notice that people like to walk briskly on the sidewalks of NYC. Walking slowly & 5 people across is stupid and selfish. Imagine if each lane of your local highway had a car in it doing the exact same speed and you wanted to pass.
3. There are thousands of good restaurants in NYC, you can visit Fridays or the Olive Garden when you get back home.
To complement toby's post, other cities employ long-distance light-rails, while also using undergroudn trains, like San Francisco. While Toronto uses both in different directions (light-rail east-west, subway north-south), San Francisco is kind of all over the place with it, and it works.
Posted after: PleaseShutUp | October 25, 2006 12:57 PM
___________
Thank you.
Turn it up!!! Paaaleease Shut up!
"CHUG CHUG CHUG WENT THE TROLLEY....DING DING DING WENT THE BELL..." Bring back a modern trolley. The underground is TB desease, and rat infested. New Yorkers have better attitudes above ground.
For God sake give the contract to a private company, like say SONY or TOYOTA. Do not give it to the M..T stupid ..A. The Japanese, one of their people, should build it and run it.
What politician do we have to put in office to make this happen?
We need a smart one. Do we have any around here? We could import one from UTAH, the mid west if need be, no Republicans.
Can it happen in my lifetime please.
Wouldn't that basically cut New York in half? If cars aren't allowed the length of 42nd Street the only way for them to go around would be at the rivers. If anything closing off Times Sq would be a good idea, but anything more would be a disaster for the whole island. And why do we need a light rail? We have the S train already.
Response to [15] Posted by: TLC | October 25, 2006 1:49 PM
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the subway platforms are much narrower then a street and you have postal people, pushy platform rage ranting New Yorkers, Bellvue escapees and the norm mixed in. We still do not have casualties that high below ground or above.
You don't have a strong point.
I think the solution would be to have NJ Transit extend the current light rail from New Jersey to New York via an underwater tunnel/bridge and have the light rail run down the length of 42nd street. This would relive overcrowding at the Port Authority bus terminal and Penn Station, and cut in half the commute time to midtown from Hudson and Bergen County. 50 percent of the population growth in the New York City area is coming from Northern New Jersey, and there needs to be a direct rail connection to 42nd street.
No, they would still be allowed to drive on the avenues, just not on the street.
I appreciate all these references to Toronto: when the current mayor is re-elected in November, LRT lines and streetcar improvements will finally happen.
Honestly, though, everybody here wants more subways: we simply can't afford them. We have 69 subway stations compared to New York's 469, which for a city that is poised to become larger than Chicago is frankly embarassing.
>Toronto uses both in different directions
>(light-rail east-west, subway north-south)
Toronto has subways north-south and east-west, as well as streetcars in all directions. Streetcars serve all surface routes south of Bloor St. (downtown, east end + west end) and buses serve the areas north of Bloor St.
The only streetcar uptown is St. Clair, which is getting a highly-contentious right-of-way this year.
They should keep the S. Have it run at specific times of the day.
However, it would be nice to have direct transportation above ground. No limited stop buses in time square. I like the idea of no cars. No smelly exhaust from buses. The idea reminds me of Amersterdam Holland. They have trollies, old time electricity above the train. They also have the equivalent of the Long Island Railroad. Their cars are alot smaller too. No SUV's the last time I was there.
It wouldn't cost much more money to extend the Shuttle east to the river than to build a light rail line from river to river, especially given the need to built a depo for the cars.
With the Flushing Line extension, a Shuttle extension would provide the equivalent of a river to river light rail line, but with much more capacity, no loss of street lanes, and no need to wait at stoplights.
Tourists are NOT the only cause of congested sidewalks. Are you going to tell me that the people in business suits staring into their Blackberries are tourists?
And I see plenty of locals standing on groups blocking the sidewalk or walking six across and not making room for people walking the other direction.
ADDENDUM TO RULES:
Dear Midwest/Southern Goober or Europeans Visitor, and all other tourists.
One mans trash is another man's treasure!!!!
ALL TOURISTS. IGNORE ALL RULES BELOW AND JUST HAVE A GOOD TIME. We need the revenue or else we may slip back to the 70's. Nobody wants to go there. Not even Bob A Booey. The 70's thugs would get Bob A Booey.
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Below:
[16] Posted by: Bob A Booey | October 25, 2006 1:56 PM
"1. Do not stand in a group on any NYC street corner. Never. Ever. New Yorkers do not come to your town to stand in the middle of the road and block car traffic. If you would like to stop to talk to the rest of your group, please stand along side the curb or the building at the opposite side of the sidewalk."
"2. You will notice that people like to walk briskly on the sidewalks of NYC. Walking slowly & 5 people across is stupid and selfish. Imagine if each lane of your local highway had a car in it doing the exact same speed and you wanted to pass."
"3. There are thousands of good restaurants in NYC, you can visit Fridays or the Olive Garden when you get back home."