Minutemen Want to Sue Columbia

sheeesh, what are the self-proclaimed "tuff" [sic] boys so afraid of? what is wrong with being called what you really are? i think it is a good thing that they feel so threatened.

looks as though this entire "fracas, ""melee," "riot," or whatever-you-wanna-call-it was truly worth it.

YEAH!!!! to all those you participated in and supported the pro-immigration banner act.

unfortunately, things just may get uglier for some.

Hey Rubenstein, move away from the computer - you are going to hurt your prescious little meat head.

Chicano Caucus is a racist organisation, it attacked (african-american) speaker with racist slurs and called other speaker nazis etc.

Just to remind racist leftist fundamentalist: opposing criminal behavior (say, illegal border crossing) is not racist. Hurling racists slurs at african-american speakers is racist.

I hope Columbia U expels these Chicano Caucus lunatics who violently prevent other people expressing their opinions.

so what are they suing the university over? improper security measures?

the minuteman guy on the colbert show didn't say anything particularly inflammatory and he didn't take colbert's bait.

I love colbert, but he was really kind of trying to get the guy to go on some sort of racist rant - which he didn't do.

Hey Roy,
Your precious buddy Rubenstein of the College Rpublicans called the lefty protesters Nazis...
so your argument is BUSTED

now, slowly move away from the computer before you hurt yourself.

They had the right to speak even if I don't agree with what they stand for. Also how exactly are they "murderers" or even racists, considering that they have a mixed membership?
If a caucasian tries to cross the border illegally would they stop him?

Mixed membership = tokenism

Now we are back to the classic battle-

Liberals: Let's kick some ass
Repblicans: We'll sue.

I can't figure out whether Republicans are robots or broken records...they constantly say the same moot point over and over and over...I guess even a broken record will one day stop. OK, Robots it is!

Most of us in this city wouldn't be here without America's relatively friendly immigration policies.

My ancestors came here legally. And my grandmother had to go back to Jerusalem to wait for a visa despite being married to my grandfather who had permanent resident status. But that was 70 years ago.

in the big thread about this before, i asked numerous times for proof of them murdering anybody.. i guess i'll ask again here.. will someone please find a news story from a credible source that has prof that the minutemen have killed anybody. being armed and killing people are two different things.

also: if the chicaco caucus and the rest of the protestors from that night, then the minutemen speech would have been extremely under-attended and would have been forgotten by the end of the week. instead, its almost a month later and we're still talking about it.

way to go!

but just so it doesn't get lost, i'll ask again. any news story reporting a murder by the minutemen.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.
If you're a member of the GOP, then lather with a hot young stud.

Hopefully Gilchrist will sue not only Columbia, but that loud mouthed drooling Marxist pendeja from the "Chicano Caucus" and every one of those vile left wing savages they can identify. Some of them need to go to prison over this BS.

"Chicano Caucus" - LaRaza - MEChA

Who are the racist again??

The Minutemen, a group of small-minded individuals, are using this unfortunate incident to try to mar the reputation of Columbia. This is the best publicity for them, possibly ever. Of course they are filing suit---their cause is a sham, so why not try to play the martyr?

As much as I think the whole incident was pathetic and deplorable, I don't understand how they can sue. Maybe over the stolen items, perhaps, but there's no way they could stick that on anyone specific.

But "defamation"? WTF?

But "defamation"? WTF?

Minutemen were publicly called racist, nazis etc and there were clearly racist slurs at the african-american speaker. Not sure if this is a hate-crime (possibly) but at least defamation and the minuteman will certainly win the case in court.

Columbia U allowed this to happen (security guards did nothing) so probably minutemen can argue that university is responsible for the hate-crime (Columbia has a long history of bias).

Lets not forget ythat the people who are so upset that the minutemen do not want tem in their country are the true white supramacist.The second you ceoss the border you confirm that you are inferior people from an inferior culture unable to creat a compasionate advanced civilization that only whites can creat. Well maybe the Japanes.

i'm glad that this particular thread has been far more civil (for the most part, not entirely)than the previous responses to a minutmen/columbia postings on gothamist.

anyhoooo, i just want add that having a lawsuit involving the minutmen and the claim ("defamation?") that they are murderers may spark some research into that question during the discovery process (though that step depends on where and how the entire case goes). just because there is no direct evidence or reporting on "murders" committed by the minutemen, does not mean they're not happening. it could very well mean that something is not being reported or it is being presented as something other than a homicide. consider, for example, that someone dying from injuries sustained in a confrontation with the minutemen much later unlikely will garner press coverage at the time of his/her death. also, many victims and immigrant-sympathetic folks may fear discussing or reporting the truth to the police, other authorities, or the press - who do you turn to then?

by the way, for so-called hard working, often unionized folks in this country to sympathasize and follow up on the minutmen tactics because they fear for their jobs is a complete disgrace to the founders of america's unions. just think of the hardships many workers suffered to unionize, etc. now the minutemen may practice intimidation and scare tactics on other laborers - in this case non-unionized workers - that could pale by comparison to what big company bosses did in the past (again under-reporting could lead to lack of information on this).

#35 - Your argument for calling an individual or a group "murderers" is pretty lame. What you said can apply to any group or organization whose lines of duty involve any type of confrontational situation, such as the army, national guards, ins agents, nypd etc. I was asking for any news evidence or investigative reports of even alleged "murders" committed by the minutemen, and obviously there's nothing so far. You might as well call them "rapists" as well if that's your logic.

The unionized laborers in the US might not agree with their tactics but they would certainly agree with their ideas to increase patrol along the borders and tougher laws on big companies on hiring undocumented workers. It's the big companies that would embrace a more relax immigration policy.

"ignorant hillbillys"

Isn't that the kind of ad hominem insult used when you don't have a persuasive argument? By the way, there's nothing "disadvantaged" about the Latino community. Thanks to changing demographics, it's become quite dominant and will be more so in the future.

As an American citizen who happens to be a Hispanic, I am deeply respectful of the immigration issue and the abdication of duty that our elected officials have undertaken in order to furnish employers with cheap labor. Illegal immigration is a federal crime. So is slander and calumny. It should not surprise anyone that those who advocate and in many cases practice crime would try to smear those who point at them and accuse them of their deeds. It is a federal crime to encourage the arrival and permanence of illegal aliens, and any organizaton that provides them with political standing is engaging in this crime.

Here's the clincher... There are large numbers of Hispanics who not only do not support illegal alines, but who actually act against it. We are Minutemen and belong to organizations such as "You Don't Speak For Me" which seek to educate our elected officials and the media that the vast silent majority of legal immigrants, who don't have a friend or relative here illegally, do not support this abuse of the American taxpayer and blue collar worker.

Sue them all! Take their money and plunder their funds. That takes a page off their own playboks and turnaround is fair play.

"there's nothing "disadvantaged" about the Latino community."

I was clearly refering to the (individual) poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free...that cross an imaginary line where laws change...and are likely harrassed as a form of sport to some of the Minutemen.

#45 - Where does it say that just because you're a hispanic you have to support illegal immigrantion, or because you're a minority you cannot have moderate/conservative views. You know many legal immigrants and their parents were also once poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free, so why are the current illegals any different that they can't go through the same processes to be citizens?

I had to vomit myself after reading your ignorant and self-righteous nonsense. Shame on you for your rant just because another hispanic has opposite views than you.

Mexico is not the poor, disadvantaged country that you seem to claim it is. It is the third-richest country in the Western Hemisphere, behind the US and Canada. To spout nonsense about families starving to death there is a red herring that has no basis in fact.

If the Minutemen were 'hunting Mexicans' on the border you could bet that all of the ACLU and other 'observers' would be trumpeting the info far and wide. Your continuous clarion call of 'racism' is the last, weak weapon in your arsenal, and rings very hollow to anyone who digs deeper than 'sound bytes'.

"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."

Run that through Babelfish and tell me who the 'racists' are...

I quoted no 'data', therefore the claim of bias is fraudulent. The FACT that Mexico is the richest country south of our border CAN NOT be disputed.

"Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada."

Run that through Babelfish and tell me who the 'racists' are...

For The Race everything. For those outside The Race nothing.

Now THAT'S RACIST!

If calling a fact 'biased' isn't disputing it, what is it?

Starving New Yorkers or starving Mexicans? Sorry, I choose New Yorkers. Americans should help other Americans FIRST.

Hate speech? I'm sorry, but I don't see 'Secure Our Borders, Enforce Our Laws' as 'hateful' to anyone. More importantly, how can you?

That's not anger seething, I have a speech impediment.

I've ALWAYS cared about poor Americans, I AM ONE.

I've never voted for a Republican in my life, but that's changing this year.

Typical Communist, it's people like you that have driven me from the Democratic Party.

Rat Riot, you fact isn't "biased" as you point out, but you are obvously choosing a fact that really isn't saying that much. How do you define "richest"? Is it based on GDP? You need to give your fact's context. If you were talking about GDP levels, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of immigration. The FACT is that there are, regardless of GDP, a whole lot of poor Mexicans who see opportunity across the border. I'm not sure what you were trying to prove with your fact, maybe that you believe all Mexicans are rich and cross the border to piss you off?

And as for "Communist"? Since when are Democrats communists? If you are yourself poor, as you say, yet voting Republican, it must be for a social conservatism (ie you don't like the idea of gay marriage, you want a wall between the US and Mexico as big as they can build it, abortion will send us all to hell, etc). This is fine, and you are welcome to your opinions, however, if you are going to debate immigration, you have to bring up relevant facts.

Here are some to choose from:
Mexico has, with pressure from the US, adopted neoliberal economic policies (NAFTA) that in essense, make the poor poorer and the rich richer.
Those same policies, which enforce tariff-free trade across borders should also have relatively loose immigration policies, but post-9/11, the US has severely shut the borders.
Those policies have lifted barriers for US companies so that they may move across the border and take advantage of cheep labor and essentially no work-place regulation (no costly safety standards, etc)
And to address the inherent racism in this debate, the US-Canadian border is a lot more open. If you met an "illegal" Canadian (or Briton, Caucasian in general) would you feel the same way? Please, honestly ask yourself that question and try to think of immigration taking these facts into consideration.

Wow, so many stereotypes, so little time...
First of all can we stop bandying about the word "Communist" and go back and learn some U.S. history about the Communist Party in America, their many noble (IMO) accomplishments, their ideological split from the Socialists, and how the hell can you even mention a modern-day Democrat and a Communist in the same breath! (btw, we're talking a Hillary Clinton Dem and not a Lyndon Larouche Dem, I'm hoping?)
Second of all, this remark has just got to go:
"Legal immigrants that we hand pick are the rich ones who want to assimilate as quickly as possible so they can make tons more cash at whatever expense...even their own personal history and family heritage."
I mean, wtf???? Are you even aware of the immigration process? Do you have any idea how hard it is to enter this country legally? Have you ever spoken to an immigrant fleeing persecution in their country of origin working a shit job and sharing a room with seven other compatriots as they nervously await their status???
"We hand pick?" What do you mean... like a bunch of wealthy whitefolks having high tea on Ellis Island while Dubya himself stands on a platform and says, "I'll take you, and you , and you..."
Damn Miguel, I usually like what you have to say but sorry, that was just nuts.
Yeah, I know that NAFTA and globilization in general has created intolerable economic conditions in many other countries but come on, there IS more than two sides to this debate. And framing it as a either/or issue plays right into the hands of those crooks we love to hate... I believe the shorthand is "Republican." (Again, we're talking Karl Rove Republican, not Abraham Lincoln Republican, right? Ah, labels...) Intentionally or not, iIlegal immigrant workers bring down the minimum wage and weaken the power of unions, not a good thing for any of us. And no, there's no easy answer to this issue, so why is everyone so quick to dismiss the other, equally valid point of view?
As for The Minutemen: I'm not fooled by these guys, they claim to just want to "protect the border" but the truth is they're in bed with a lot of nastier organizations, Gilchrist himself is on a hatemonger watch list. Which is why the incident at Columbia was such a fiasco, the students could have substituted conversation for confrontation and easily shut him down; instead he comes off looking like a level-headed moderate and the protesters, whose hearts were in the right place, gave him credibility and a platform he doesn't deserve.

Yes, yes. good, good points Jane and ethos. I was coerced to the dark side. It's easy for me to be reduced to 0/1 mentality once I get fired up. I retract the either or comments above.

Admittedly, I know little about immigration, but much about the politics of race in America and I know the difference between someone believing in a policy because it works and someone believing in a policy because it supports his/her interests. I'll still never understand why people who comment here are so brutally racist with seemingly little exposure to the people they chide. Or why they feel that exclusionary policies are in their interest.

One thing, though. I still believe people are hand-picked to come here. It would not be America if we didn't try to steal the best and brightest from other countries in some sytematic way.

Commie.

Ethos, I don't believe I ever attempted to make an "either/or" argument. I never even discussed my own personal view-point on the matter. I understand the problems inherent in high numbers of unprotected, undocumented workers. My goal in posting comments was to point people to issues that affect immigration so it may be less of a debate based solely on race and racism and more on international processes and economic policies, which are the general causes of immigration flows.

I'm sorry if this seems defensive, I got a little freaked when I saw you believe I am playing into the hand of Karl Rove (??!!?!?!?) by discussing national and international policies.

Jane,
Mexico's government doesn't take care of Mexico's people because they are corrupt. The elites (Spaniards all) have been sloughing off their poorest 'mestizos' on us for the last half-century. They prefer to let US pay for their greed. They compound that greed with $25 BILLION in remittances, making it their second-largest source of income, after PEMEX.

Our government IS NO BETTER. They allow BIG BUSINESS to import these 'cheap workers' with impunity, undermining the wages and opportunities of our neediest CITIZENS. It also absolves them of the responsibility to pay taxes, Social Security, Workman's Comp, unemployment, etc. That's what makes them 'cheap'. In the meantime, taxpayers are picking up the tab for ALL those things.

To address the 'inherent racism', let me say this. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, "57% of ALL Hispanics in America are foreign-born, and over half of those are here illegally." If you put pencil to paper, .57X.51=.2907 .57X.55=.3135
Suffice it to say that 3 of EVERY 10 Hispanics in America are here illegally. Going further, 2004 USBP data show just over 1 million arrests at our borders. Of that, 44,000 were OTM's, leaving 956,000+ Mexicans. Of the OTM's, 33,000 came from Central and South America, i.e. Hispanic. That leaves 11,000 non-Hispanic arrestees, or 1.1% of the total. Hispanic illegal immigration constitutes 98.9% of the problem. It's not racist to acknowledge the obvious.

Ethos,
I promise not to use the word 'Communist' in this post.
NAFTA-CAFTA-FTAA hurt ALL the countries involved. We can see the damage being done. The only winners are the Corporations that maximize their profit on the backs of the 'Middle Class'.
Who owns the Corporations?
America's 'elite', on BOTH SIDES of the aisle.

As for the Minuteman Project and Jim Gilchrist, I think you should dig a little deeper than Mo Dees and the SPLC. They're the same folks that count the KKK as valued clients.

I don't blame the people for their plight. However, I'm not willing to PAY for it, either. The responsibility for these people lies with their respective governments, not ours. The bottom line is that American tax-payers, already hit with a cheaper dollar and less ways to make them, are getting stuck with the bill that illegal employers are leaving. It is not our responsibility to pay for the social services of the 30 million illegals here, or their dependents back home.

I'm not trying to endorse ANY racism. I point out the percentage because when you think about it, it's mind-boggling. And for the most part, the 7 legal Hispanics KNOW who the 3 illegals are and condone their illegal behavior. Like I said, when 98.9% of illegal aliens are Hispanic, it's not racism, it's REALISM.

Race is a factor, as is economics. As one commentor pointed out, we are not concerned about our Norther border in the least.

"Hispanic illegal immigration constitutes 98.9% of the problem. It's not racist to acknowledge the obvious."

Thanks bud. Now lets stop pretending that we are concerned for our nation's safety and security, as others have suggested. This is a racist and classist agenda, that pits US (American taxpayer) against THEM ( 98.9% poor Mexicans).

"I'm not willing to PAY for it"

And stop pretending that immigrants are draining resources. Immigrants, illegal or legal
make a strong contibution to our economy that could not be replaced if the Minutemen had their way.

Egocentric.

My last comment was deleted.

I guess we know the editorial bent of the website now.