Gothamist: Using Cellphones to Pay Your Subway Fare

anonymass

Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:28:14 -0500

Seems this technology isn't quite as safe as one would have thought: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/23/business/23card.html?hp&ex=1161662400&en=c9a94ee516105b2e&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Spike

Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:53:56 -0500

Mr. Big and others who wonder why other cities' public transport is so much more technologically advanced than ours: I'm thinking it's the much, much greater proportion of gov't monies that go to support those systems in Italy, Hong Kong, etc. I'd be curious to know how much public funding per rider NYC transit receives vs. other cities with large mass transit ridership. Does anyone know of such as comparison?

Jersey City Mafia

Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:54:24 -0500

UM, The Port Authorityu is developing it's own smart card technology. This will of course be completly imcompatible with the smart card technology being devloped by the MTA and NJ transit. So you will still have to carry 3 different fare cards to commute from New Jersey to New York. And possibly a fourth, because many buslines in New York and New Jersey are privatly owned and will not spend money to implement this technology.

Mr Big

Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:36:05 -0500

Lame. The BUSES on the Italian island of Capri have been using RFID-based cards for years, including disposible ones for tourists. Just wave the card at the reader and get on board. Why is America so far behind the times?!?

Jordan

Fri, 20 Oct 2006 09:38:56 -0500

#27: One day, before this trial started and before my card expired, Citi sent me a replacement debit Mastercard that had a PayPass logo on the back of it out of the blue. Not shocking to me that a phone customer service rep didn't know about a contactless payment trial on a subway system in some faraway city (faraway to them anyway)... I'd call back & ask for a PayPass debit card. They should know what that means. I skipped the fob thing myself too.

mg

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:34:50 -0500

They are also almost ready to deploy the contactless CharlieCard in Boston, though if you ask a Bostonian about the new Charlie system overall, you may get punched. (Boston also installed screens and PA systems capable of giving a countdown estimate, but they "decided not to switch it on", because according to the GM of the MBTA, nobody would "want" to know. Talk about mismanagement!)

mg

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:32:40 -0500

Time countdown is delayed a year, of course. New estimate is Fall '07. Though it will be running in the L within 6 weeks (according to the MTA.)

David

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:38:21 -0500

I've been using the blue keyfob since the test program began, and I've had a perfect turnstile entrance every time. I use it daily in the morning and sometimes at night, and I haven't taken out my wallet/Metrocard in months. Added bonus: if this is widely adopted, we don't have to worry about the endless used-up MetroCards scattered around the station floors. Less garbage = good. I'd like to think that I'm a pretty well-seasoned MetroCard swiper, but even the best of us have to re-swipe from time to time. Not with my fob. I haven't had one issue since I started, short of waiting for people to exit the left-most gate on the 4/5/6 stations so I can use the fob scanner. If they added a scanner to every turnstile, and allowed us to pay with pre-tax dollars (TransitChecks, etc.) than this would be perfect, and I'd be a life-long convert. Oh, and if we're wishing, we need to get the MTA to run the show and allow us to use any credit card to back the program. I want to earn AmEx points when I ride.

zincink

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:29:26 -0500

How would this effect old people with no cellphones? I can see Cingular trying to carry out a system only to have Verizon Wireless swallow them after everything is set up. How about getting the trains to run on time instead of worrying about getting through the turnstile. What ever happened to the "time countdown" till next train..??¿¿

djca

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:26:45 -0500

Just have separate turnstiles for tourists.

jessica

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:03:47 -0500

"I swiped my card at one of those full body turnstiles (do these things have a name)" HEET. (High Entrance/Exit Turnstile). When I was fighting a ticket for evading a fare for exactly what we're talking about here (someone swiped before I went through) I did some research and recall them being referred to as "highhoughers". Alhtough now I can't find any supporting evidence for that and my spelling may be way off. An alternate name is "Iron Maiden" apparently.

JEB

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:03:14 -0500

Actually, the real potential for this is on the buses (those are the big white and blue things, for those who only ride the subway), where instead of the tedious MetroCard dip (which can take 4-5 seconds), you just tap and go. =faster boarding=less time waiting at the stop=faster buses=getting where you're going faster.

moxy

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:03:04 -0500

I live along the 4/5/6 line so I've had the opportunity to use my two Citibank passes (one is an chip-enabled ATM card linked to my checking account, the other a keyring fob linked to my credit card) a couple of times during this trial period. No problems so far, and it comes in handy when you're with a buddy that doesn't have a Metrocard on him/her. I'm all for a contactless system. I am curious about how much money the MTA would save on maintenance costs if they moved entirely to contactless: I'm not sure how much it would cost to outfit the system but I am sure that they spend a lot of $$$ cleaning, fixing, maintaining the existing swipers.

Joe

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:51:54 -0500

They've had the tap card in Chicago for a while now (it refills automatically, connected to bank or credit account). I think it costs five bucks to replace (and buy), but there was an extensive promotional period. This just goes to show that technological advances are possible outside of Asia.

interlard

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:34:44 -0500

Other commenters have mentioned using their cards, rather than fobs to pay. How did you get this?? I called Citibank several times to get on the trial. After I spoke to someone who knew what was going on they sent me 2 new ATM cards (with no PayPass chip) and a huge plastic key fob (with a PayPass chip). At this point I gave up. I was hoping to carry LESS crap, not more. My AmEx card has a chip in it for 'tapping' (they call it ExpressPay), why not Citibank cards? BTW, when I threw out the new ATM cards & the fob, I broke open the huge lump of plastic to discover a tiny chip that would easily fit in a card.

publictransportrocks

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:03:28 -0500

too much technology: (1a) The test run should help determine major glitches in the system. There are already wide-scale examples of this implementation elsewhere. We might learn from them. Derrick's post speaks to this. (1b) All new technologies (which the metrocard was, at one point) run the risk of failure. As we become more knowledgeable, we can refine our systems to be better than they were before. (2) Regarding the lines at the token booth (versus "at the turnstiles"): Another option would be to work on alleviating the technical problems that produce the lines at all. During this phase of experimentation, it may be difficult to account for the glitches that might arise as greater numbers of riders participate. I should hope that you were as quick to dismiss the possibilities of the metrocard, since it supplanted the oh-so-convenient token. Change isn't always a matter of trading in the "devil you know" for the "devil you don't know". Sometimes it springs from true human needs-- our imaginative forces working to solve real problems. (3) Regarding token booth obsolescence: This has already been implemented at some stations near me. Perhaps this is an anomaly?

Tunnel Rat

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:56:52 -0500

"I swiped my card at one of those full body turnstiles (do these things have a name)" HEET. (High Entrance/Exit Turnstile). /the more you know

anonymass

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:51:25 -0500

How can you use your cellphone to pay your fare in this phase II trial? Wouldn't you need a signal? Or does it read from your SIM card?

should have been

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:49:59 -0500

Also, someone swiping before you walk through invalidates your fare? That hasn't happened to me yet, but dude, I would be SO PISSED OFF. Actually what happened was I swiped my card at one of those full body turnstiles (do these things have a name) and stepped forward but the reader had not read the card. Before I could step back and "swipe again at this turnstile" some dude had already swiped his card. This invalidated my "swipe again" ability so I walked down to the token booth, told my sob story and the clerk let me in. I could have walked through on the other guy's fare but I wasn't an a-hole.

Toby

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:47:29 -0500

I still think that the good old MetroCard has this beat and there is less to go wrong.

yvo

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:40:15 -0500

I wonder if I can just hold my purse near the thing and it will register, because I am all for not having to open my purse up. (For my work keypass, I just place my purse on the censor and it reads it.) Also, someone swiping before you walk through invalidates your fare? That hasn't happened to me yet, but dude, I would be SO PISSED OFF.

Brightliner

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:39:35 -0500

I don't know about this. It's not as if people aren't already pulling out knives and saying "Yo, gimme your cell phone!" This would be just one more incentive.

derrick

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:28:05 -0500

the sad thing is, japan, seoul, hk and the rest of asia is already light-years ahead of us. they already have cellphones/cards that can pay subway fares, vending machines, bank loans, etc. meanwhile this past weekend, the credit card machine didn't accept credit cards, the a/c uptown wasn't running at all, and the 2 express was local. maybe we shud get our trains to actually start running properly first.

too much technology

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:16:50 -0500

The machines very often fail to read debit/credit cards; and in some stations, they fail to work at all And you don't think the new technology will fail? creating excruciating long lines at the token booth Where would rather have the line, at the token booth or blocking all of the turnstiles? (which are supposedly obsolete, no?) Not according to the Transit Union who will fight to keep their jobs. Nor the politicians who will pander to the union and say it promotes safety.

publictransportrocks

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:10:28 -0500

Perhaps "necessary" is too strong a term to apply to this case. However, I am all for innovating the system. Metrocards are not the utmost convenient instruments. They cause way too much waste product (you can't refill/recycle unlimited cards), and I've seen more than one person slip and fall on a littered metrocard. As for the hassle associated with the vending machines-- there are many. The machines very often fail to read debit/credit cards; and in some stations, they fail to work at all, creating excruciating long lines at the token booth (which are supposedly obsolete, no?). I have slipped under the turnstile a couple of times because I was stuck at a vending machine on a workday morning, with the line at the token booth snaking to the streets above. We need to bring our transportation up to speed (no pun intended).

too much technology

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:08:04 -0500

Not to mention the smartcard system would work a lot better then the ones we have now, and will be able to move more people throughout the system with less delays and bottlenecks at the turnstiles. I'll believe it when I see it. In the old days people didn't stand there reswiping their tokens. And now you have the idiots behind you that swipe their Metrocard before you even turn the turnstile thus invalidating your fare.

geo kash

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:04:27 -0500

No need for GPS, they have all the info they need for tracking you when you signed up. then it's just backtracking to which subway stations you were and to cross reference all the contactless users in the area. Bottlenecks? You mean we are so impatient now that we can't wait 5 more secs for a second swipe?

Kojak

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:58:57 -0500

You Hermit Its 2006! We need to do things faster better and more efficient then we did before! Not to mention the smartcard system would work a lot better then the ones we have now, and will be able to move more people throughout the system with less delays and bottlenecks at the turnstiles.

too much technology

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:47:49 -0500

Is this all really necessary? Is using a vending machine to buy a Metrocard too difficult and time consuming?

Kojak

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:45:36 -0500

The funny thing is that MTA reps visited Tokyo not too long ago to exchange ideas with their counterparts in the Tokyo Subway about these types of systems. The Suica card works like a charm there, same goes with the Octopus Card in HK. I guess when you add technology with ideas from the MTA, you get a half-baked half-assed system that doesn’t work too well.

K

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:39:03 -0500

#7, its still a trial. If its a success, it will be all over the place. #10. nyc has a century old system, changes take time.

MTAneedsREFORMING

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:34:51 -0500

They've been using this for some time in Tokyo and Hong Kong. Get with the program...

Jordan

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:27:08 -0500

I tried it a few times when they first launched it... I thought the best part was that to use my PayPass debit card I didn't have to take it out of my wallet. I just pulled my wallet out of my pocket (rather than rubbing my ass in the general direction of a subway turnstile) and waved it near the sensor. I hated the idea of having to take my card actually out of my wallet in the middle of a subway station.

Spike

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:08:13 -0500

I got one of the blue fobs from Citicard--along with copious promotional materials about the subway use--but I haven't used the fobs or the subway promotion. I haven't used the fob 'cause my key ring is already fat enough (and don't they have GPS devices in them? that creeps me out). I haven't used the subway option because I use an unlimited card and there is no such discount through the Citibank payment. That said, I'm all for contactless payment. A six-month stint watching such a system move Washington, DC, commuters pretty speedily has me convinced.

Michael

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:07:27 -0500

I have one of these fobs, but I buy monthy metrocards, so there's no point in using it. The only time it would be handy is when paying the $5 for the Airtrain (when you can't use your unlimited metrocard). So I went to JFK last week, excited to try it out, only to discover there weren't any readers for the new system. So explain again how is this supposed to make my life easier?

Some Bloke

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:54:46 -0500

Citibank is probably subsidizing this trial, not something it would be inclined to do when it came to preventing an "implosion" of the system. Just as the Metrocards negated the need for tokens, this trial (if successful) will negate the need for Metrocards. Why is that bad?

Urban Thought

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:51:02 -0500

It won't be useful for everyone until they include the unlimited option with it.

lisad

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:45:51 -0500

I used the system a couple of times because they were for free rides (all last week for example) and for a couple of times when i forgot my metro card. worked fine. Usually get my metrocards via mail from payroll deduction so not really something i use every day (pretax dollars) but worked fine. you take the think that lives on your keyring (looks like a blue flash drive) and put it up to the star thing and you hear a beep. thats it. Refills, prepayments etc are done online

land

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:44:22 -0500

You don't have to tap it; you just have to hold it near the reader. The "tap" concept was developed for idiots who don't believe that information can fly through the air.

k

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:43:04 -0500

gotta love that MTA, improving ways to pay before improving the system so it doesn't implode everytime it rains too much or there is an "earlier incident".

nick

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:38:03 -0500

i dont get it. "tap" payment reader for a "contactless" payment. wha wha whaaa??