The problem with the "Orange hats" argument is that although in theory all people wearing them could be justifiably inconvenienced in the search for the guilty, our criminal justice system is too corrupt and class-biased to garuantee adequate protection from a misscarriage of justice (ie. wrongful conviction) and abuse of power. Unfortunately, police and prosecutors have too much power and too many questionable motivations for there to be any faith in the criminal justice system being fair and safe. Not to mention that even though our legal system is based on a clear "innocent until proven guilty" philosphy, the treatment of suspects in captivity tends to be as if they were already guilty. The arrest and trial process is usually a form of punishment unto itself. While it's true that when investigating a crime law enforcement should be on the lookout for individuals who match the descriptions of the prepatrators, it will remain hopelessly immoral to do so as long as the "inconveniece" constitutes a hardship for the suspect. That's why I'm against profiling of any type. Furthermore it has been proven beyond any doubt that blanket or random investigation of anything rarely contributes to solving or preventing crimes and is extremely inefficient use of police time and public money. Those approaches remain popular because they offer the public a greater "sense" of safety as opposed to "actual" safety as the random subway searches clearly demonstrate. Police commissioner Ray Kelly has even admitted this to a degree.

It's not even have/have-not or black/white...it's an American thing, called entitlement.

Rich, entitled people now have 'tipped' in Park Slope...now that they are the majority they can mobilize and pick on the poor, powerless, and uneducated as usual. Maybe if there wasn't one 'good' school for the whites, asians, and smart latinos and blacks and another like John Jay for all the poor kids in every single community in this country, we would have more understanding and dialogue. the 7th Ave stop would look very different at 3PM that's for sure.

Chris: Your post is seething with racism. Ever thought that maybe you come off as a racist asshole in real life? Maybe that's why people react to you the way they do, especially blacl folks who call it like they see it. Why are so many gay men so fucking racist?

PS- to the ONE conservative who repeatedly posts under 20 different names supporting his own arguments...face it: you are a douche.

This is a case of the have's and have not's . While I do admit that there is a lot of crime in the area , That comes with moving into the hood! I'm not saying that certain people shouldn't be able to move into certain areas . There is the element of the area you are moving into that needs to be taken into consideration here . If you move into a bad neighborhood then you have to expect that there will be those living their that might not take to the idea of you being there . As for the dope that stated it was fine by him if blacks that use this station were profiled . Your an ass ! How would you feel if it was someone you know or you ! Think before you voice your dumb-ass opinons BO

Oh boo hoo, I have it so bad

Stop it, you're killing me. Why don't you stop playing the woe is me card, where's my pie card.

Let's look at the intangibles. How by your skin color you get the leg up.

And, I don't mean the Gov't cheese.

You're still in Egypt, buddy.

oh, i see, you say and it is so. brilliant logic. i'd like to know how i have gained more skin-color benefits than you. alas, you are clueless and prefer to play victim and deny what that evil white man has done for you. forget merit, you deserve the world. forget my white family poverty. nevermind income, need, or personal responsibility. let's just focus on skin. that is how you nurture hate.

Still in denial.

I don't have to know, I do know.

You benefited plenty, so instead of just a thank you and be on your way, you bitch and moan.

OH lawdy lawdy, look at all the great stuff dem negroes have. I wisha me could gets me some. they livin the high life. up in da eastside.

when ams I gonna gets me a delux apartment in the sky? I ask?

As someone who lives in the area, and uses that train station, let me tell you that it is more of an age thing than anything else. Its John Jay, the school on 7th Ave and 5th St, that lets out a few hundred kids all at once, who immediately flood the area and start making trouble. The school has to pretty much escort the kids the 4.5 blocks to the subway station to keep them out of trouble. And they're all colors, all equally punkasses. So if the cops wanted to stop and search all the teenagers, that would make a whole lot more sense.

It definitely was a misunderstanding. He really said "Guac and black beans" and it was misinterpreted as "Stop all black teens." This happens all the time when I order mexican food.

good point, egyptian prinkess. i'm a racist living the phat life. you really know how to debate a point. clearly you know how my life has worked and what benefits i've received for my skin. if blaming all white people for tossing babies out of windows seems right, then why not blame the whole of islam for 9/11?

because they stopped everyone, whether they are 15 or 50. again, they would not do this if a description was for a "white male". Oh really?

Yes, really.

Yes, every "white male" aged 15 to 50 will be stopped and frisked.

"Teenage" and "male" are also descriptors but nobody is complaining about that. Why?

And the Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

You benefitted plenty, so stop your bitchin.

"hate-breeder" that's a new one on me, you racist.

where do you come up with this "maccaca"?

You have hate all over your face.

Here's the problem with an all-black-teenage-male directive that whites will never have to face: the "y'all look the same" phenomenon. I cannot tell you the number of times white people I work with have mixed up black colleagues who look absolutely nothing alike: different skin color, different ages, different eye color, different clothing style, different hairstyle, etc. It's unbelievable. When you throw out "black" as a descriptor with nothing more than that, it gives police officers full license to nab any black dude they see. Can you imagine the police stopping every single white guy, regardless of age , whether they were wearing a suit, or other defining attributes? Highly unlikely.

grow up and live in the present dot dot. how many social programs, grants, and priorities do you expect to get because of your skin color? and don't forget it was those evil white folks that formulated this terrible, evil democracy you apparently like enough not to flee. oh, are you native? no? you too are enjoying the 'material wealth' of our shared ancestors even if they weren't quick enough to grab their own. as mine also were not.

or is your point that black people are justified in inflicting violence on whites because of who you think their ancestors were? you are a true hate-breeder.

jeez, the locals know who the troublemakers are already.

Have cops posted outside the school, outside the subways And most importantly, INSIDE the subways.

Keep surveillance and radio contact throughout.

NO need to stop every black man and child.

bklynd had a good idea about flooding the area w/ cops, but make them undercover cops dressed as white yuppies w/ ipods, cellphones and nice watches. That will be better bait than stopping a lot of innocent black males.

Traveling whilst Asian has been "an offence" since the & July bombings (at least). Sometimes with a twist.

"Racism, yeah it was bad. Last I knew my ancestors were conscripted into the Union army, and never owned anybody."

You continue to benefit from the material wealth generated by slavery in this country to this day, even if your ancestors weren't quick enough to acquire any of their own.

After getting drafted ,your (probably illegal) immigrant ancestors also proceeded to burn down the city of New York in protest, lynched all the black men they could find and threw children out of an orphanage window. The Draft Riots were all your doing.

White people.....wow.

Random stops of any kind don't make the subway safer, whether from thieves or subway-bombers. What the subway needs is what every corporate headquarters in manhattan already has - an extensive, functional cc-video system. If you have a thief on video, he'll be much easier to catch and prosicute, and there will be no need for this fairly confused thread, or the actions which lead to it in the first place.

blkynd had a good point--flood the station with cops, but make them undercover cops dressed as ostentatiously dressed white yuppies w/ ipods, cell phones and nice watches. That will be much better bait for getting the muggers than profiling and harrassing a lot of innocent black males.