Commish Says No Profiling, But Officers Say There Was

The problem with the "Orange hats" argument is that although in theory all people wearing them could be justifiably inconvenienced in the search for the guilty, our criminal justice system is too corrupt and class-biased to garuantee adequate protection from a misscarriage of justice (ie. wrongful conviction) and abuse of power. Unfortunately, police and prosecutors have too much power and too many questionable motivations for there to be any faith in the criminal justice system being fair and safe. Not to mention that even though our legal system is based on a clear "innocent until proven guilty" philosphy, the treatment of suspects in captivity tends to be as if they were already guilty. The arrest and trial process is usually a form of punishment unto itself. While it's true that when investigating a crime law enforcement should be on the lookout for individuals who match the descriptions of the prepatrators, it will remain hopelessly immoral to do so as long as the "inconveniece" constitutes a hardship for the suspect. That's why I'm against profiling of any type. Furthermore it has been proven beyond any doubt that blanket or random investigation of anything rarely contributes to solving or preventing crimes and is extremely inefficient use of police time and public money. Those approaches remain popular because they offer the public a greater "sense" of safety as opposed to "actual" safety as the random subway searches clearly demonstrate. Police commissioner Ray Kelly has even admitted this to a degree.

It's not even have/have-not or black/white...it's an American thing, called entitlement.

Rich, entitled people now have 'tipped' in Park Slope...now that they are the majority they can mobilize and pick on the poor, powerless, and uneducated as usual. Maybe if there wasn't one 'good' school for the whites, asians, and smart latinos and blacks and another like John Jay for all the poor kids in every single community in this country, we would have more understanding and dialogue. the 7th Ave stop would look very different at 3PM that's for sure.

Chris: Your post is seething with racism. Ever thought that maybe you come off as a racist asshole in real life? Maybe that's why people react to you the way they do, especially blacl folks who call it like they see it. Why are so many gay men so fucking racist?

PS- to the ONE conservative who repeatedly posts under 20 different names supporting his own arguments...face it: you are a douche.

This is a case of the have's and have not's . While I do admit that there is a lot of crime in the area , That comes with moving into the hood! I'm not saying that certain people shouldn't be able to move into certain areas . There is the element of the area you are moving into that needs to be taken into consideration here . If you move into a bad neighborhood then you have to expect that there will be those living their that might not take to the idea of you being there . As for the dope that stated it was fine by him if blacks that use this station were profiled . Your an ass ! How would you feel if it was someone you know or you ! Think before you voice your dumb-ass opinons BO

Oh boo hoo, I have it so bad

Stop it, you're killing me. Why don't you stop playing the woe is me card, where's my pie card.

Let's look at the intangibles. How by your skin color you get the leg up.

And, I don't mean the Gov't cheese.

You're still in Egypt, buddy.

oh, i see, you say and it is so. brilliant logic. i'd like to know how i have gained more skin-color benefits than you. alas, you are clueless and prefer to play victim and deny what that evil white man has done for you. forget merit, you deserve the world. forget my white family poverty. nevermind income, need, or personal responsibility. let's just focus on skin. that is how you nurture hate.

Still in denial.

I don't have to know, I do know.

You benefited plenty, so instead of just a thank you and be on your way, you bitch and moan.

OH lawdy lawdy, look at all the great stuff dem negroes have. I wisha me could gets me some. they livin the high life. up in da eastside.

when ams I gonna gets me a delux apartment in the sky? I ask?

As someone who lives in the area, and uses that train station, let me tell you that it is more of an age thing than anything else. Its John Jay, the school on 7th Ave and 5th St, that lets out a few hundred kids all at once, who immediately flood the area and start making trouble. The school has to pretty much escort the kids the 4.5 blocks to the subway station to keep them out of trouble. And they're all colors, all equally punkasses. So if the cops wanted to stop and search all the teenagers, that would make a whole lot more sense.

good point, egyptian prinkess. i'm a racist living the phat life. you really know how to debate a point. clearly you know how my life has worked and what benefits i've received for my skin. if blaming all white people for tossing babies out of windows seems right, then why not blame the whole of islam for 9/11?

It definitely was a misunderstanding. He really said "Guac and black beans" and it was misinterpreted as "Stop all black teens." This happens all the time when I order mexican food.

because they stopped everyone, whether they are 15 or 50. again, they would not do this if a description was for a "white male". Oh really?

Yes, really.

Yes, every "white male" aged 15 to 50 will be stopped and frisked.

"Teenage" and "male" are also descriptors but nobody is complaining about that. Why?

And the Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

You benefitted plenty, so stop your bitchin.

"hate-breeder" that's a new one on me, you racist.

where do you come up with this "maccaca"?

You have hate all over your face.

Here's the problem with an all-black-teenage-male directive that whites will never have to face: the "y'all look the same" phenomenon. I cannot tell you the number of times white people I work with have mixed up black colleagues who look absolutely nothing alike: different skin color, different ages, different eye color, different clothing style, different hairstyle, etc. It's unbelievable. When you throw out "black" as a descriptor with nothing more than that, it gives police officers full license to nab any black dude they see. Can you imagine the police stopping every single white guy, regardless of age , whether they were wearing a suit, or other defining attributes? Highly unlikely.

grow up and live in the present dot dot. how many social programs, grants, and priorities do you expect to get because of your skin color? and don't forget it was those evil white folks that formulated this terrible, evil democracy you apparently like enough not to flee. oh, are you native? no? you too are enjoying the 'material wealth' of our shared ancestors even if they weren't quick enough to grab their own. as mine also were not.

or is your point that black people are justified in inflicting violence on whites because of who you think their ancestors were? you are a true hate-breeder.

jeez, the locals know who the troublemakers are already.

Have cops posted outside the school, outside the subways And most importantly, INSIDE the subways.

Keep surveillance and radio contact throughout.

NO need to stop every black man and child.

bklynd had a good idea about flooding the area w/ cops, but make them undercover cops dressed as white yuppies w/ ipods, cellphones and nice watches. That will be better bait than stopping a lot of innocent black males.

Traveling whilst Asian has been "an offence" since the & July bombings (at least). Sometimes with a twist.

"Racism, yeah it was bad. Last I knew my ancestors were conscripted into the Union army, and never owned anybody."

You continue to benefit from the material wealth generated by slavery in this country to this day, even if your ancestors weren't quick enough to acquire any of their own.

After getting drafted ,your (probably illegal) immigrant ancestors also proceeded to burn down the city of New York in protest, lynched all the black men they could find and threw children out of an orphanage window. The Draft Riots were all your doing.

White people.....wow.

Random stops of any kind don't make the subway safer, whether from thieves or subway-bombers. What the subway needs is what every corporate headquarters in manhattan already has - an extensive, functional cc-video system. If you have a thief on video, he'll be much easier to catch and prosicute, and there will be no need for this fairly confused thread, or the actions which lead to it in the first place.

blkynd had a good point--flood the station with cops, but make them undercover cops dressed as ostentatiously dressed white yuppies w/ ipods, cell phones and nice watches. That will be much better bait for getting the muggers than profiling and harrassing a lot of innocent black males.

Random stops of any kind don't make the subway safer, whether from thieves or subway-bombers. What the subway needs is what every corporate headquarters in manhattan already has - an extensive, functional cc-video system. If you have a thief on video, he'll be much easier to catch and prosicute, and there will be no need for this fairly confused thread, or the actions which lead to it in the first place.

At least you had eggs to put in a basket.

It's good to be white? ain't it?

Ken Lay never tried to rob me on the 4 Train at 125th Street.

Racism, yeah it was bad. Last I knew my ancestors were conscripted into the Union army, and never owned anybody. At some point that logic is going to get a little tired, and so will the "poor disenfranchised" argument.

Sometimes it sucks to be grouped in with people that have committed crimes. It has happened to all races and religions throughout history. So, whether or not you want to admit it, your number is going to be called somewhere at sometime anywhere in the world. Aint it a bitch?

while enron did bad things, the former employees should have known better than to put all their eggs in one basket.

slavery? enron?... what does that have to do with nypd tactics? this is about protecting individuals from violence, not rebuilding society. it is not about retribution for history, it is about people alive today. yes, a killer on the loose is far more dangerous than some corrupt ceo that i can freely choose to avoid.

Anyone remember Barings bank?

Or Enron?

Retirees are eating Canned Cat food and working as the greeter at Wal mart.

again, blacks and latinos don't commit the biggestt crimes, just the most stupid violent crimes. They will kill you for a slice of pizza while trying to scale a 30 foot fence into your property. meanwhile, a white guy in a suit is hacking into bank accounts and stealing millions and transferring those numbers into swiss bank accounts. Now which crime hurts society more?

for every 1000 crimes committed by blacks against whites? sounds like a good start. lets roll up our sleeves and make a tally of crimes of whites against blacks and vice versa. i'll start off, slavery. your turn.

every day i wake up and thank my parents for being a rich white straight male. life is just so much easier ... I almost coast through it.

"People of Color"- a term that "disadvantaged minorities" use to pretend like white people have some ridiculously unfounded fear of all people non-white. Unfortunately for people like you, that's not the case. I know that not all Black and Latino people are bad, but it certainly is the case that I have ONLY been harassed by Blacks and (Carribean) Latinos in this city. It happens ALL the time, so naturally I'd like to stay away from them. I have no problem being in close quarters with East Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, Eastern Europeans, Hasidics, Arabs, and South/Central American Latinos. I'll stay away from the Blacks and Boriquas, thank you.

Wow, what a bunch of shitty comments. Anyway, cop geniuses, you want to make the station safe? Just patrol it during the problem time - you don't have to set up a racial dragnet.

For ever 1,000 crimes committed by blacks against whites, 1 crime is committed by a white person against a black person.

If that isn't racism, I don't know what is.

Well it's nice to see racism still alive in old NYC. I wonder if some of the people making comments here are the same that are smiling and drinking with me in the local Slope bars eventhough I'm Black. I pay my taxes like any other citizen and expect to be treated the same. You live in NYC so beware of your surroundings or go back to all white small town USA. Or just start putting up White-Only signs in the neigborhood and see how many more people of color rush the hood.

no one seems to mind when insurance companies, universitites and employers racial profile, but god forbid the police do it and all of a sudden we're living a police-fascist-state...

tools.

"Our country is a bit too concerned with being "correct" than "just," if you know what I'm saying."

what's just about singling out 100% of a group when a very small percentage of that population group is causing problems?

Locals say it's the new satelite school for troublemakers that's the problem. And, it happens between 3-4pm.

NOT some elderly black man who looks like Fred Sanford.

next time, the nypd will be stopping All white people, they use a color chart, if you're below this shade of tan, you're gonna get stopped.

I mean if you got rid of 100% of blacks you would get rid of 90% of the crime. Unfortunately, the other 10% of crime from whites is like high scale Enron embezzlement which trickles down and affects generations. So white people are the devil. so pick your poison, either get stabbed in the subway or lose your stock options,401k and apartment.

crossfader – your post is ridiculous. the ASIANS are for laundry. the wetbacks are for delivering food from the diner.

sheesh – some people.

ah, the warm prickly embarace of fascism. it warms the soul. bo, is of course on the winning end. welcome bo. we'll get these darkies. next the a-rabs. then by next week the dirty jews. we'll keep the wetbacks cause someone needs to do laundry right?

if there was a rash of crimes being committed by people wearing orange hats, would it be profiling and discriminatory to stop and question a guy wearing an orange hat? sure, some law-abiding orange hat-wearing people would be inconvenienced in the process, but it would be foolish to do otherwise.

Call it racism if you will, but if profiling lowers crime I do not see the issue. I'm sorry, but where I live, the few whites here do not often commit the crimes I see. If this is the same in that area of Park Slope, then it only makes sense to investigate based on color. Our country is a bit too concerned with being "correct" than "just," if you know what I'm saying.