Gothamist: We’re Coming to America, TODAY!

Steven Hates Kids

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 22:17:28 -0500

Sorry you hate your kids so much, Steve.

Steven

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:47:59 -0500

Columbus Day is waste of a holiday. Children should be in school not home. Maybe one of the reasons why children have problems learning is they cant WAY TOO MANY DAYS OFF.

Sarah

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:57:36 -0500

To Tamara Lover: I'm sure you did not mean to be flippant when you wrote: "To the best of our knowledge, no Native Americans were harmed in the making of these delicious wines." However, the documentation of atrocities against the Arawak Indians during Columbus' reign of terror is vast. If you wanted to write a fluff piece, that's fine, but there's not reason to include a line like you did unless you were seriously trying to make a not so funny joke. Please, run, don't walk, to get a copy of Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States."

s

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:03:04 -0500

you might want to read this: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP3.HTM by your rationale, NOTHING and NO-ONE from anyone's history can be celebrated.

Ace

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:18:57 -0500

because "he sailed the ocean blue in 1492"?

Fuck Columbus

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:07:46 -0500

What is this particular fallacy called? The fact that there was plenty of other brutality in Columbus's day has no bearing on whether or not it is disgusting to celebrate a holiday for which he is the icon. And I would not characterize my attitude as one of "guilt" -- I would characterize it as one of outrage. I don't agree with the idea that because there was rampant massive cruelty all around, that which followed Columbus's exploits is any less awful. Nor does it make a lick of sense to me to engage in this counterfactual history and talk about how this or that native American group would have 'done the same thing if they'd only had the guns'. No, there's such a thing as consciousness raising, and we as a society should be pursuing it all the time. We've come to the point where knowledge about Columbus's genocides, and those which were enabled by his work, is widely spread. It is responsible to take the step of denouncing the celebration of a holiday that is named after this man, who while by no means the only perpetrator of genocide and violence, is for sure a member in good standing of the gallery of mass murderers. And don't protest that no one can be compared to Hitler, because he was worse than them all. Comparison is different from ranking. I don't care whether you give Hitler a score of 100 and Columbus only a 66, and I don't care if you find a "minor" mass murderer who only rates a 3 by your scorekeeping -- the point is that these are individuals who were responsible, in one way or another, for the systematic destruction of peoples. They all deserve our loathing. The difference between Columbus and most of the others is that they don't have days named after them. And this makes it all the more important to protest Columbus Day, to use the symbolic meaning of a state holiday in honor of a mass murderer to make a larger point about our need to fully condemn mass murder and to take real steps to prevent it ever again.

s

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:20:14 -0500

yup, well said. And, Italian wine still sucks!

jmchez

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:11:01 -0500

As a man of Spanish-Italian heritage, I ve alwayd wondered why Italians in the US celebrate their heritage on Columbus day. He was born at a time when Italy was split mostly in parts ruled by France, The Pope and Spain; it was not a real country. Columbus was willing to sell his services and loyalties to the highest bidder, either Portugal or Spain. Once the Spanish King and Queen agreed he settled there, he married there, he had his children there and he died there. Everything he discovered he did for the greater glory and richness of Spain. To this day, his heirs have the right to a Spanish title and, invariably, one of them ends up an admiral in the Spanish navy. Why is Columbus praised as a great Italian again? BTW, why are those who liken Columbus to Hitler (Godwin already?) living in this continent? Do they really believe that the Arabs on the other side of the Pacific were not going to do to the Aztecs and others what they did to the Persians? More likely still, since the Arabs had such a lucrative trade on African slaves they would have just expanded the new world into their business sphere. Anachronistic guilt for behavior that was completely normal in those days is stupid. The Aztecs records themselves show that that their priests once sacrificed 40,000 prisoners in a couple weeks, and that was way before there were any Spaniards nearby.

s

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:53:23 -0500

Italians claim Columbus as their own, and it has become their day for an ethnic parade, in the same way the Irish and PRs have their ethnic parades. It's ironic though, because Columbus was a crypto-Jew who sailed for Spain, all while evading the Inquisition. I don't have any problems with celebrating Columbus from a political standpoint. The cultures the Spanish wiped out were just as brutal and barbaric if not more, they just didnt have guns and that's why they lost. If the "locals" had the same or better military and naval capabilities as the Euros, you can bet your bananas that they would have done the same. The loser always gets the sympathy vote from the self hating guilt ridden children of privilege though I suppose, and you are so completely enthralled by some romantic image of the "indian" living in peace before the evil white man arrived, but you are wasting your energy on a fairytale. Focus your efforts on today's problems. What happened 500 years ago can't be compared to or put into a modern context, your comparison of Columbus to Hitler is completely wrong.

Fuck Columbus

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:33:58 -0500

Celebrating Columbus Day is like celebrating Hitler Day, in the alternate universe where Nazi Germany won. I don't get how so many people are so woefully uneducated that they don't realize what carnage this man is responsible for, what cultures were wiped out as a result of his "discovery". There are plenty of people who think that an anti-Columbus attitude is some kind of "historical revisionism". The only way they can think that is just to be completely ignorant of what happened. Regardless of how much blame you can lay at Columbus's feet personally (i.e., Europe would have gotten around to decimating the native populations of the Americas pretty soon in any case), it's just horrifying to honor the man who stands as the symbol of this conquest. You should be ashamed to make light of the day. This is a day for protest.

dhex

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:32:31 -0500

such is the story of man. it's not like systematic subjegation or slavery didn't exist before the honkies showed up. which doesn't explain why the italians have a hard on for him, of course.

b-dog

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:29:52 -0500

Columbus sucks. The native people he didn't murder he turned into slaves. His "discovery" of the New World opened the gates for European powers to systematically subjugate and annihilate entire societies.

s

Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:47:54 -0500

Italian wines suck. Vive la France!