Gothamist: "I admit I did cut him one time for my own safety."

William

Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:30:36 -0500

On a side note, I do know from personal experience what sexual harrasment feels like. I was at a gay friends birthday party and we went to Marque. I was dancing with a bunch of people and this one guy started putting his hands all over me. I do admit that I was not really giving a fuck what gender the people I was dancing with was, but I did not make it clear that I was interested in any sort of physical contact. He started telling me how he was going to drag me back to his place and "break me in" so I could find the "inner homo that I was hiding in myself". I felt incredibly violated, on par with any time I've been mugged and beaten up by a bunch of kids on the street. The only way to rememdy the situation, as he would NOT leave me alone even after I repeated a dozen times that I didn't like what he was doing and I was not interested in any kind of contact with him, was to tell him that if he was going to threaten me with physical interaction of some sort, we should take this out to the street and actually get physical. He finally got my drift and stormed off. This was of course an isolated incident because I've never had any other instance of someone being disrespectful of my heterosexuality. I'm sure members of the gay community have many instances of someone being disrespectful of their homosexuality, so I realize how much easier I have it being straight. The difference, again, was that someone was being physical with me and threatening to be even more physical. If this guy had just told me that he found me attractive or asked me out on a date, like has happened a few times with gay men I've met, I would politely decline and just take it as a compliment. Hey, even us guys need to feel special about ourselves from time to time. I just want people to get to know as much as they can about all of the sub-cultures that exist in this great city of ours, so they can truely empathize with people and make proper judgements about their behaviour. So, I guess this is a discussion much closer to the original topic, and not a byline at the end. In my opinion, any time a group of armed people attack a single unarmed person on the street, they are definately escalating the situation in a very criminal manner. Skin color, gender, or sexual orientation should have no effect on the judgement passed on a situation like this. I do realize that certain things I'm saying can seem quite paradoxical, but my life experiences tell me that these eteranl ethical paradoxes are quite the norm. Wisdom is what lends you to make the correct decision at any kind of ethical road-block one faces in life. Wisdom does not come without a lot of effort to understand and experience things that weren't sitting directly in front of your face during your childhood. Throughout ones life, as experiences are haphazardly dished out, wisdom inherantly grows, hence its association with age. I would hope that people of all ages would strive towards a truely adult frame of mind. As they say, you make your own luck, but I think you can also make your own wisdom blossum before your golden-years set in. I've got a lot more to say about this rather open-ended topic, but I've got a Mets game to worry about...

William

Thu, 05 Oct 2006 17:49:15 -0500

All that I was trying to do was point out an obvious cultural difference that is more a sign of inherent racism in the white ex-suburban populace of NYC than of rampant sexual harassment in the city. Of course there are sick people roaming the streets spewing out perversities. This is New York City. There are nut jobs all over the place. I've seen homeless dudes jerking off enough times that it seems more like an homage to Vito Acconci than some kind of obscene and threatening act of violance towards society. That being said, there are plenty of people who go way overboard. Exposing themselves in public, or discussing explicit sexual acts with strangers... of course that is creepy. That creeps ME out. I don't think this is a sex-based issue. Most people on this planet are going to get freaked out if someone pulls out their genetalia and starts making comments about doing things with it to you. I guess I should have made it clear in my above post that verbal harasment that is threatening physical contact of any kind should not be tolerated. It is the threats or the actions of physical contact that is the issue. Everything else? Who gives a fuck. This is the wrong city to be living in if your skin is that thin. I'll tell you how I formed my opinions on this matter. I'll watch a white woman walk by a bunch of people on my block, and they say some things to her, and she acts like she's about to be raped by the "dark men". These guys are harmless. They've got tons of female friends, and when they dish out compliments to them, they're fine with it, because they're not terrified of people with dark skin. I very rarely see NYC natives being bothered by this kind of stuff. My friends here who grew up in neoyuppie neighborhoods like Boerum Hill were used to seeing people shot up and stores getting robbed. Their sisters are used to walking by the projects and seeing a difference in the way that men and women in that culture interact. Together, with a real perspective on other cultures and what constitutes a real danger to them, they can tell when they are actually in danger and when they're not. All of these people moving in to this city from some secluded all-white suburban neighborhood don't have this ability to judge the situation because they are harbouring inherent ethnocentrist attitudes that have been developing since birth. See, the worst thing about racism is that most people don't have any clue just how prejudice they are. Their actions are always rationalized based on their own personal cultural upbringing. Do I cat-call? No. Do I talk about explicit sexual acts with random strangers? Only if they're Yankees fans. Do I wish for people with opinions differing to mine to fuck off and die or wish for them to never have children? No. So what the hell is up with all of the violence and verbal harassment in your responses? Of course, looking for a good discussion with people of moderate attitude and the ability to control their emotions will never be found on an online forum such as this, so I guess I should expect it.

el shithead

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:20:57 -0500

I don't know, something seems off here. I think the girls overreacted but I think this guy had it coming to him. He's 28 years old and hitting on a teenager. And he was selling bootleg DVDs on the street. Come on, we all know that these guys are really agressive. He said hello, how are you doing? Sure, right buddy. And William, you should fuck off and die before a group of angry lesbians with steak knives comes after you. Estupido...

solidago

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:58:08 -0500

The most brazen harrassment I have seen in the city was by one of these gangs of "queer women of color." The gang was catcalling as they passed these two preppy white girls, and then turned around and started grabbing these girls asses and chasing them down the sidewalk, but let up after the girls started screaming (in a crowded street on a Sunday afternoon). If it was this same group or a rival faction, this whole gay thing is a McGreevey/Foley-esque smokescreen. They are a bunch of thugs, plain and simple.

Max.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:19:04 -0500

These were queer women of color being sexually harassed by a straight white man. I'm all for these women defending themselves.

me

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 17:28:47 -0500

Good. I'm all for a few straight people getting a small taste of what EVERY SINGLE GAY YOUTH goes through, some on a daily basis. I'm gay, and a youth (or was, fairly recently), and I used to hang out in the Vill, and I still think that the situation was messed up. Just because it happens to queer youth on the regular doesn't mean that such an attack is acceptable. The point is, it's not right for anybody, for any reason, to get beaten up with odds like that. (Seven to one?!) I'm all for self-defense against harassment, but this crossed the line.

dhex

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:15:50 -0500

"Good. I'm all for a few straight people getting a small taste of what EVERY SINGLE GAY YOUTH goes through, some on a daily basis." this makes perfect sense. no, really! it does! it totally does.

La Leone

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:31:54 -0500

Picador, oh forgot to mention, yes I think all Latinos are named Juan and Pablo. And therefore all Latinas are named Juanita and Paulina. (Giant eye roll.) This is sarcasm, by the way.

La Leone

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:25:43 -0500

Picador, You're right, I'm sorry. I made an unfair generalization (just like William does) and figured that he was not Latino. But I did so based on this: "Latino girls in my neighborhood love it when a group of guys make it well known that they are impressed with her looks." I just figure that most people would not be so quick to make a sweeping generalization about their own culture. I hate when people do that to my culture so I try not to be self-defeating and do it myself. But my bad, maybe William is Latino. I am not a racist heap, however, but thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

Samantha T

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:08:14 -0500

"Ok, this guy allegedly spat on them and used "fighting words", which means the girls would be entitled to punch him under the law in self defense." "Fighting words" have nothing to do with being privileged to strike somebody - it's a First Amendment thing.

Tim N.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:49:34 -0500

Umm... gay gangs are nothing new. They were around when we lived in the WV in the early 90's. And, yeah, they were friggin' scary. I remember a bunch of them walking around with the word "FAG" stickered to their jackets, just hoping for a fight. 'Course, this was the same time when a popular pastime in the 'burbs was coming into town and beating up gay folks. Violence begets violence. Which is another reason for the cops to not stand by and be amused by this. Because at some point some other gang will take on this crew. That's why we have cops, right? They don't have to billyclub them into the gutter to head this off. If they think they do, they're not very good cops.

Max.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:46:05 -0500

Good. I'm all for a few straight people getting a small taste of what EVERY SINGLE GAY YOUTH goes through, some on a daily basis.

Picador

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:31:00 -0500

"You are neither Latino..." How do you know that? Are all Latinos named Juan or Pablo? Racist heap.

La Leone

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:46:29 -0500

William, I can't believe I am responding to you, but here goes. I have no idea if you were being serious or just trying to get a rise/response out of us women. You are APPALLED at that Hollaback website? Well, it's a way to vent in a city where men of all cultures generally harass any woman that moves and breathes. Many men are so blatantly dismissive of sexual harassment, so I'm GLAD a site like this exists. Yes, I personally think that some of the complaints are overreactions, but it's their feelings & their perogative to post them. That's what the site was created for. Don't go to that site if you find reading those kinds of rants so apalling. You are neither Latino nor a woman, so how DARE you say that "they love when a group of guys make it well known that they are impressed w/their looks." You should be careful, because it's not a Latina birthright to be accepting of cat calls. Please don't exaggerate or generalize. Lots of us love compliments about our looks, or feel good when a guy is impressed by them. Please save the "we live in a big city, move to suburbs" crap for people who complain about their newspapers being stolen & stuff. Sexual harassment is a real and "actual" crime w/all kinds of acts constituting it. It's strange that you consider rape a serious crime though. Well thank god for that, I guess. The real crime would be if you ever reproduced. And if it was a girl? I hope that you would not transfer your generalizations about ethnicities, women, sururbanites, and your borderline misogynistic attitude towards women. Please don't breed. Grazie!

Blah

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:25:32 -0500

Ok, this guy allegedly spat on them and used "fighting words", which means the girls would be entitled to punch him under the law in self defense. Definition of fighting words from Wikipedia "Fighting words are written or spoken words, generally expressed to incite hatred or violence and to place the targets of the words in danger of harm. Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction."

are you f-ing kidding me?

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:14:21 -0500

William, you are an asshole and a fucking idiot. Just because cat-calling is part of Latino culture does not make it right, or flattering to anyone, and it is still harrassment. Eat a dick, asshat.

William

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:50:39 -0500

Hey folks, we live in a big city. There's going to be lots of clashes between different kinds of groups. As far as verbal harassment goes, or something as innocuous as a snowball or a water gun, I think it would be in everyone's best interest to just get used to stuff like that. The cops in this city are never going to give a crap about petty social infringements because there are actual crimes going on, like murders, robberies, rapes, and arson. I am totally appalled at that hollaback web site. It is completely ethnocentric. Cat-calling is a big part of a lot of cultures. Latino girls in my neighborhood love it when a group of guys make it well known that they are impressed with her looks. The big line that is crossed is when things start to get physical. Before that happens, however, just deal with it, or move back to the 'burbs.

Not Amused

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:47:07 -0500

You know this is third time I've heard that term . "Gay Gangs" So they really do exist, Well they should be treated with the same scrutnity the cops treated the "Decepticons, Autobots, Raiders, Bloods, Crips, (damn there are so many that I know and have peeps associated with )and every other group out there ! No exceptions what so ever .

warrior kum out to pla

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:55:47 -0500

with winter coming, time to break out your, batons, blackjacks, brass knuckles, saps, sap gloves, and whatever items of persuasion cops used to use. Yes, I know some of the items above are the same. I just a fan of regional differences. and for you ny'ers, them nunchucks or however they are called or spelled. Thems is the most confusing of them all.

will

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:54:30 -0500

yeah, if there's one part of the village i don't miss after moving away it's there. has that corner become a lot worse over the last year or so?

Schadenfreudian Mensch

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:52:47 -0500

"We really should rally behind their right to assemble, harass, and stab innocent civilians - poor kids." Absolutely. It's only right since they're being abused at home that they should bring the abuse to the breeders and everyone else in the village. Share in the abuse is what I always say.

Jessie

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:46:28 -0500

They are a bunch of ghetto trash. One of them harassed my friend for several blocks with rude comments about her size and called her a "stupid white girl", she was afraid and hurried away, but they continued to bother her. When she finally turned around to confront them and said "please leave me alone" the other girl punched my friend in the face. They just walked away, and there were people all around! This city can be so cruel and the police are scared of them too?! That is just ridiculous. Bust out the billy club and do some enforcing for petes sake.

Tim N.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:35:34 -0500

Sounds like the spirit of Valerie Solanas lives on... some people will do anything to keep the 60s alive.

bob

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:35:11 -0500

this area can be kinda sketchy.

pedestrian

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:33:34 -0500

1-2, you do when you're from Newark.

koch

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:49:46 -0500

oooh I just thought of something; these must be the same disadvantaged gay teens that are getting kicked off the pier at closing! we really should rally behind their right to assemble, harass, and stab innocent civilians - poor kids.

ABC Girl

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:46:42 -0500

That area sucks. I was with a female friend right past that same theater and some idiots pulled out a big water gun and started spraying us as we were walking by. We were shocked and then scared because we had no idea if it really was just WATER. We were relieved to notice there was a police officer at the corner so we ran over to tell him what had happened. The police officer said -- and I quote, "Don't mess with those people. If I were you I'd forget what happened and just go home". Even the police are afraid of those thugs!

koch

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:45:42 -0500

As retarded as the concept of hate crimes is - I REALLY REALLY hope this guy gets to file his complaint as such. It's time for the activists of every ilk to get some of their own!

1-2

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:36:16 -0500

I'm with Mr. Buckle on this one. That area, the West 4th Street and 6th Avenue, is a haven for these gay gangs. I was once walking to a theater i used to work at near west 4th street and was harrassed all the way to 7th avenue by a gang of lesbians... they're not village or chelsea lesbians, they're the trash that comes from the hood and attacks decent people... they're loud, obnoxious and litter like it's their own rat infested crack den. a kitchen knife? sorry no one carries a 12–14" blade for self defense.