Gothamist: Noisy Teens Irk Some West Villagers

Max.

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:58:38 -0500

You want to live on christopher street? Deal with the noisy homos who hang out there. Just be glad we're not rioting and fighting the cops these days.

Miquel

Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:59:57 -0500

UMCer= upper middle classer "common courtesies of proper behaviour and etiquette"--spoken like a true UMCer, (note the French spelling of favorite) "I could have and still can move to Westchester"--spoken like a UMCer who is 'slummin' it' "I do pay, via taxes, rent, donations and my own volunteerism, for the flowers around the trees -- that they litter, step on, and piss in. I pay for the police that have to be brought in to keep them under control"--such entitlement, UMCer, and thank you for the trees and flowers...they drove up my rent and property taxes up 25%, dick. "But they must be courteous, respectful (of each other and the residents), law-abiding (no pissing anywhere or grafitti), and, most of all, not distruptive and disturbing."--They MUST? Sorry, boss that's just not how it works. You have a right to your opinion AND your values. You have a right to complain (on here or to law enforcement). They are enjoying the park as they see fit, as are you with your wife and child. If they are breaking the law, it is the police force's job to sort them out. You are probably the type to sit yourself down right by them with your family so you have something to complain about. My point is not that you are wrong, rather you are a rich, uptight, UMC douchebag--and people like you should take your kids and move to where you will fit in more comfortably with the rest of the Republicans, like Westchester. You could, however start a UMC vigillante task force to deal with this instead of crying...I'd respect that almost as much as the idea of you walking through the hood in Jersey City! As an aside, I spent most of the day yesterday trying to get over myself...it didn't happen. I've made that a new High Priority Goal, though.

Not Amused

Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:24:34 -0500

"Gay gangs" Interesting concept! I wonder what there colors are? Purple, Pink, or madebe Lavender!

VillageFamilyMan

Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:16:36 -0500

Did you read what I wrote? I do not own the neighborhood -- or the park. The situation is like this, Miquel: I do not own the park. They do not own the park. However, I treat the park like I do not own the park. They treat the park like they _do_ own the park. Get it? I do not own the streets around where I live, but I do pay, via taxes, rent, donations and my own volunteerism, for the flowers around the trees -- that they litter, step on, and piss in. I pay for the police that have to be brought in to keep them under control -- so they do not hurt and abuse themselves or others. I could go on...but I know my point is made. Trust me, Migs, if I walked into their neighborhood and threw myself and my crap around the way they do here, they would be pissed. And if they weren't pissed, for damned sho' their "Moms" would be pissed. No, I am not running for city council. Nor do I have any specific values (upper middle class? Ha! I wish!) other than "common courtesy" that I am trying to uphold. And I could have and still can move to Westchester any time I please, and I repeatedly choose not to -- because I love it here. This rude bunch will surely not be the reason for me to leave -- but that doesn't mean that I do not have my rights to live here and complain about them. Kapish? Good. Now please spend the rest of the day trying to get over yourself.

Miquel

Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:44:12 -0500

A masterpiece! I like the part where you get all pouty and start to whine about Harley riders! You almost made it through without claiming that you own the neighborhood...so it is public space, but you are more entitled to it, right?...and you even wrote respectfully about the kids' rights to exist...before calling them beasts. Nice! Take your upper middle class values and move to Westchester...that's where you'll be in 5 years anyway. Just one question: Are you running for City Council?

HereTooLong

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:28:57 -0500

Bravo, VillageFamilyMan!

VillageFamilyMan

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:06:00 -0500

Wow. Interesting comments, but so many are either theoretical or emotional and aside from a few "living on Greenwich Street" experiences, mostly void of fact or real-life anecdotes about how this is effecting the West Village and those of us who live there. I do. We do. Myself and my wife and my child. We have lived in the village as a childless out-at-night couple and now we live in the village as not-out-at-night-as-much parents. Here's the straight scoop (and some people have said this amidst the back-and-forth comments, but I want to make it clear): You can be who you want whereever you want and whenever you want. But to enjoy those "rights" you must be aware of who you are being, where you are being that person, and what time it is. When you don't -- whether that be inside a bar/restaurant, on the street, at someone's home, whatever -- when you don't, you are a nuisance. Plain and simple. And I will tell you that far too many of the group we are discussing here are being just that, a nuisance. Some of the things I have experienced recently: -- Groups of GLT (Gay, Lesbian, Trans) kids/adults sitting immediately adjacent to me, my friends and our children (approx. 4 years old) and cursing, smoking blunts (and we were downwind) and behaving disrespectfully to each other. This happens EVERY TIME we go to the short pier (up from #45). Without fail. -- Public urination, blocking sidewalks, disturbing the peace, and lots and lots of littering/showing disrespect for the neighborhood. Every Friday and Saturday night from the West Side Highway to Sheridan Square along Christopher Street. -- Smoking crack, heroin and the usual substances on the quieter sidestreets (Grove Street is a good example) -- making even the alternatives to Christopher Street feel uncomfortable to those of us who live and walk around there at night. -- To a lesser degree, there is a definite "feel" that these groups are "commandeering" the pier/park (sort of "ruling the roost", if you will) -- again, simply by behaving badly (shouting at each other from 25 yards apart, not showing basic courtesies -- blocking paths, not saying "Excuse Me", etc.) and just generally treating the place as if it's their "turf". But the pier/park is not their turf. It's not my turf either. It's public turf, and everyone there should extend everyone else the common courtesies of proper behaviour and etiquette. This group is not doing this -- I know from daily and weekly experience. The neighborhood streets, actually, are in fact a bit more "my" turf, and not theirs. Even more so that they should not be a nuisance. Yeah, yeah -- they don't know any better, that's what it's like where they live, blah, blah -- whatever. Simple: take a cue from the people who live in the neighborhood you're visiting and behave accordingly if you want to be welcomed back (or welcomed at all). Think of it: in the NYT article, a deli owner -- and I happen to know that it's not a very frequented deli because of its location, but because of these "crowds" he enjoys much more business than he would if they weren't here -- he is basically saying "get these people out of here even though they are bringing a bunch more business to my front door -- because they are annoying, disrespectful, and a nuisance". You think it's that easy to throw money away like that? It's that serious, folks. It's that common (not a few "bad eggs"). It's that frequent (you can set your clocks to it). I like a lively neighborhood as much as as the next GLT teen or NYU freshman does. That's why I live down here. The NYU freshmen occasionally might do something that irks me. The adult Harley riders might occasionally come through with their loud pipes and piss me off. But neither of those groups is trying to purport that these streets are theirs to do with as they like. Neither of them abuses my streets with the frequency and uniformity that the pier/PATH group does. These groups don't have to go away. They don't have to go home where they may or not be wanted. But they must be courteous, respectful (of each other and the residents), law-abiding (no pissing anywhere or grafitti), and, most of all, not distruptive and disturbing. I mean seriously: I don't care who you are and how discriminated-against you are, what neighborhood is _not_ going to put up a fight against you when you're a bunch of trouble-causing, ill-mannered beasts? Change your ways, and the neighborhood may change the way it feels about you.

Mr. Archive

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:07:14 -0500

Also, once a few GG's attacked malatesta restaurant and threw the drinks and wine on the sidewalk while innocent diners watched in horror. If that's your idea of what living in the village is supposed to be like, I think some people are sorely mistaken.

Mr. Archive

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:01:20 -0500

I used to live in the Archive in an apartment looking over Christopher St. I knew these people as the GG (Gay Gangs). They are often drunk and/or high. Also, they have lots of loud women with them who scream and fight. If these kids were respectful, this would not be an issue.

Chief

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:42:03 -0500

I live on Christopher St in a street-facing apartment. I can tell you that the people of my neighborhood generally welcome these kids. We moved here knowing what the culture and climate are like. However, what we don't welcome is some of these kids' boorish behavior. Having to deal with incessant screaming, littering, urinating on the streets, violence and graffiti is unacceptable. These kids bear a responsibility to treat the neighborhood they're sharing with respect. As far as the work of FIERCE goes, much of what they've done has been divisive. There has been a demonstrated reluctance on their part to work in conjunction with community members. Showing up at community board meetings interested only in protesting and not engaging in constructive dialogue has a left a bitter taste in the mouths of many in the neighborhood. Hopefully in the future, they will use their position as community activists to foster a spirit of cooperation instead of sponsoring divisiveness.

AT

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:43:01 -0500

I'm still at a loss as to why being "underprivilaged," as these youths apparently are, is an excuse for not behaving with common courtesy. I guess it really is too much to expect people keep it down to a dull roar at 3 am. How silly of me.

miquel

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:32:42 -0500

You have the solution, Rickthecabbie. Don't pay the Door to try to enroll kids in a program they don't think they need. Pay them to help organize kids in the group who don't want to lose their priveleges. Help them start a task force made up from these kids and have them police themselves. What is happening to our City Council? They seem to cave any time the rich yuppie residents whine.

hurhurh

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:26:52 -0500

Here's my question: Why in god's name, if you want peace and quiet, do you move to New York City? Why??? Who are these people??? Just move to fucking Rutherford, NJ, or Westchester if you want no noise what-so-ever. The new New York City - the city that falls asleep at 11:00 pm so it can be awake and fresh for that important meeting. What a lame ass place this is becoming.

MT

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:47:46 -0500

Didn't you guys do a whole story about this earlier this summer? It's the same story now as it was then: a bunch of over-entitled kids who are screaming 'discrimination' the second they don't get their way. It's not discrimination if people are against idiots who go running yelling through a residential neighborhood at 4 a.m. You don't have to be a loud freak to be gay. There are in fact a number of us out there who lead very active lives as gay people in this city and still manage not to cause a public nuisance. If we do feel like being a screaming freak, we save it for the Pride parade. And to all those who are going the you should-have-known-better-than-to-move-there route, Greenwich Village has always been one of the quieter residential enclaves in the city. If this were Midtown they were complaining about then I'd say you have an argument. As it is, shut your self-righteous mouths because your know you're full of BS.

ultraclay

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:43:59 -0500

poorkid: exactly! My entire life the Village has been an 'up all night' neighborhood. It's what attracts people there in the first place. It's asinine to move into a place like that and then suddenly complain that you don't like all the noise. There are plenty other quiet residential areas of New York you can live in. Don't live over a bar if you don't want to hear the noise.

poorkid

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 07:36:29 -0500

It's amazing to me that people who move to the village are shocked by how noisy it is. Did they spend no time there before they bought their rich, fancy apartment? People love the village because it's lively. Don't complain about the rent you pay when you could live in a nice, quiet upper east side apartment for the same amount. If you want to live in the village, it's going to be loud. Deal.

RicktheCabbie

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 05:26:05 -0500

Everbody's right, as usual, so here's my solution: Thru outreach groups have the word put out that the Pier will stay open until 3AM, on a trial basis- but if the lousy behavior continues then it gets closed outright at 11PM. Give it some time to see if it works. I think the key to that working is having the kids realize if they want to be respected as individuals then as a group they have to respect the neighborhood. Most of them probably don't even realize the history re: the area in terms of "the lifestyle". This could work if people on both sides get involved and a measure of responsibility is employed.

soph

Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:09:53 -0500

I lived at the corner of Christopher & Greenwich Street for 3 years, 50 ft from the PATH and next to what at that time was the gay bar Two Potato. Many nights, at 3 or 4am, I would call the bar begging them to make their customers go inside, instead of screaming and hollering and sometimes banging on (and other times, throwing things at) my window - but because many were underage, they weren't allowed in the bar. Other times, I'd open my window and ask that they keep it down, with varying degrees of success. While it's undeniable that many of the young gay folks who hang out in the area have nowhere to go, as someone who was paying a lot in rent and consistently disturbed by the noise, I can't help but feel anything to discourage them from staying out all night on those corners is a good idea!

R. Thurmond Larson IV

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:58:59 -0500

I'm shocked -- SHOCKED! -- that underprivileged teens are attempting to use public space, and even seeking policy changes. Urban planning policy isn't open to just any riffraff who can hop on the PATH train. It should be the sole provenance of white, heterosexual males in top hats. I demand an immediate end to their raucous conversation and fraternization in public spaces, and call for them to be forwith removed to reformitories for the insane and homosexual. These youngsters deserve the birch rod, not some namby-pampy "social services." R. Thurmond Larson IV, Heterosexual

richwhitequeen

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:13:54 -0500

richwhitestraight: As someone who never had to face anti-gay bigotry at home (let alone racism from public officials), have you ever considered taking a second to understand the circumstances of people less privileged than you? They should go home to their parents? There's a reason many queers run away from home: Many face more violence and intolerance from their parents than they do from anywhere else. And for all the harping about "special laws": Rich whites make up the vast majority of the house and Senate; how many elected officials do young queers have on their side? The kids in Chelsea want some legal protection for the public space they need; I don't see why it's so damn difficult for you to understand that they have as much a right as you do to participate in the political process to secure their community needs.

rightlightgreenlightgo

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:03:20 -0500

get rid of em! these "disadvantaged" are loud, they litter, they crowd the sidewalks, they're vulgar beyond belief, and I'm sure alot more. Dump 'em in the river. Get over your guilt. And I'd say the same for stupid frat boys and their little princesses as well, who come in from jersey and elsewhere to drive a knife through the heart of this area! this city is finished!

dallas

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:00:40 -0500

richwhitestraight: have you tried to be a gay black or latino kid? most communities (even in ny) aren't that welcoming of queer kids - no matter what their race or income status. For many of these kids though, they cannot ever be who they truly are at home. Imagine what that would be like for two seconds before you tell assume that that the place where they'll get beaten up for being gay is the best place for them to be. Also - sometimes laws are incorrect and need to be changed. It's happened before and it should happen here.

Jen

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:54:29 -0500

Solution: bear traps. Lots of 'em.

richwhitestraight

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:35:18 -0500

hey dallas; does being disadvantaged as you characterize them entitle them to either avoid the laws set down, or worse to have special laws enacted to serve them? If they are kids, ie. under age, then the only question is why are they not at home or being supervised by their parents? It takes a parent to raise a child - I don't see hillary anywhere nearby raising these kids!

dallas

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 16:28:52 -0500

I'm amazed and the insensitivity being seen here. I went to the community hearing about this issue and the callous, bigoted cruelty of the rich, white, straight west villagers was astounding. These are kids who have no place to go and instead of helping find easy solutions (leave the pier open till 4am and allow them to leave slowly in their own time) to this "problem" some of the most advantaged people in nyc decide to blame some of the most DISadvantaged people. If you want to learn about the issue from the kids point of view, check out the work that a group called FIERCE is doing.

Toby

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 15:19:11 -0500

WNBC had a report on this a few months ago. Nice to see The Times catching up.

Hiromi

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 15:16:41 -0500

A LOT of them come from Newark. The PATH on Christopher (down the block from the 'party pier') is the flood gate that allows most of those gay crackheads to roll through.

krupke

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:59:37 -0500

Step 1 - close off the pier from the street side while they're on it. Step 2 - walk the plank!

bronxite

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:55:51 -0500

Home may be the least safe space they have! Desk Sgt -- you show the kind of mentality that has people resent policing. ASSuming that late night-->criminality. Leave the park open and go solve a real crime! If they were white, male hetero, and around columbia I bet your answer would be different.

tamar

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:32:13 -0500

"And this still doesn't answer where these kids are supposed to go after the pier closes." how about they go home?

Desk Sgt.

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:31:45 -0500

They should go HOME after the pier closes. Wandering around after 1 am on a working day will not only contribute to their 'gayness', IT'LL CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CRIMINALITY AS WELL. Next question?.

Desk Sgt.

Sun, 01 Oct 2006 14:31:22 -0500

They should go HOME afetr the pier closes. Wandering around after 1 am on a working day will not only contribute to their 'gayness', IT'LL CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CRIMINALITY AS WELL. Next question?.