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Recently, after a show we co-sponsored at CBGB's, we mentioned the payment at the end of the night was a bit unfair ($25 to pay three bands with). We have worked with a few venues here in New York and have had great experiences (The Knitting Factory and Tonic, to name a couple), so when something like this happens it's a surprise. Non-payment, over/double-booking, not following through with promises...these things do not a good venue make.
It seems The Annex has now stiffed some bloggers for a show they put on last night. This time, no one saw any money (except the venue). From The Underrated Blog:
We were all having fun…until it came time to pay the bands. Now, I've been in the situation where I've djed before and gotten little to no money. I'm totally fine with that; I'd dj for drink tickets and free entrance into a show. But I will not stand for letting bands go home empty handed. So I tried to get compensation for djing, which we were promised, so I could then hand that over to the bands. But apparently four and a half hours of djing isn’t enough to be recognized.There were people there. In fact by the time Levy went on, we had a good crowd. Explain to me how a venue can sleep at night knowing that every single person who did anything productive to give you a fun night gets jipped? I was furious. I felt incredibly guilty. It costs bands money even to get to the venue, let alone play. And somehow by me asking them to play, they were losing money.
Any more venue horror stories out there? We've got one more but we're gonna keep quiet on that for a while.
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I want a "Fuck Pianos" shirt, like, ASAP.
i've seen the annex do a couple double bookings, completley bumping bands from bills altogether, (after the bands paid for transportation to the venue, both ways, loaded in, then waited around for hours only to have to call a car service and load back out without playing a note, getting paid a cent). i would never waste my time there if i were a band, patron, or dj.
What are the best venues in regards to staff/management to play? The folks at fat baby seem cool, though I can't speak for how they pay bands....
Annex is a coke fueled crap hole. The owners only care about how hipster friendly they can be. I am sure this will happen again and again. Also the booking girl shouting is nuts, she once called our band up at 6am to ask about our drum kit. When we didn't answer she just kept calling.
I had a wonderful time at the show last night. The DJ's and The GoStation are close personal friends of mine, I am horrified that they were treated with so little regard.
The Annex and their weird lurpy bouncers can go fuck themselves. I won't be back.
Brownies was awesome.
gyped like gypsies
i don't to say anything bad about a club in NYC, so instead i'll mention the good experiences my band, morning theft, has had in NYC.
the mercury lounge has (and most likely will always be) the best. everyone who works there is courteous, we got paid fairly, we got treated fairly, etc etc.
the old luna lounge was also great. it was booked as a non-paying gig, but if your band did especially well, the bartenders would give you money from their tip cups for bringing in boozing patrons.
despite the sound problems, lit lounge was also a pleasant experience. the booker was great and the door people especially nice.
the delancey has also treated my band and friends bands incredible well. the knitting factory has always been more than fair, as well.
welcome to nyc. for most of these crapholes this is the rule, not the exception. it's awful and that's why i say good riddance to CB's.
A little advice to those "booking" or promoting shows. Just get the deal in advance from the club. A lot of bloggers, etc. do things independently out of goodwill. You want to think if you bring 50-60 people out to a club, that the club will take care of you. Find out what the club's expenses are (sound, door, ads, etc.) per night and ask for a healthy percentage after that. The only club I don't worry about is Mercury...and the aforementioned and oft-missed Brownie's. Every night is different, every club is different. If you notice, most of the shitholes, booked by coke-fueled 22 year old con men, seem to go away fairly quickly. Hope that helps.
Sin-E is very fair (sometimes more than fair), so is Rothko. I have to say, despite the shit that Piano's gets they don't screw any bands over if they've made an agreement (splitting the door for the downstairs space, not sure how the upstairs lounge gigs work).
Honestly, all shows should have a head count for each paying person at the door for each band. Usually after x amount of dollars the venue should split the door money with the band. That's why even if a band has an allowance for guest lists, they should have friends pay to get into the show. In the end the band gets a little more money, but more importantly the venue is more likely to book you again if you brought in more customers in the official headcount or at least give you a better time slot.
Luna Lounge was great for bands starting out. Too bad.
yeah, i forgot to mention that sin-e and rothko were also very good.
on a rainy tues night, rothko was ok with allowing a bill we were on with bravo silva to become a free admission gig, just so we could get people to come out in the rain. that was one of the most decent things i've ever seen a club do in order to help the bands playing that night. but i guess if they're not getting anyone in the door anyways, what could this hurt?
"Non-payment, over/double-booking, not following through with promises...these things do not a good venue make."
That is Standard Operating Procedure at that shithole CBGBs.
I hope that place dies off soon. It has been limping along for years living of the past glories of 30 years ago. All the sentimental bullshit trying to save that place is a joke. If Hilly can't run his crappy business properly and pay his rent he should be booted. CB's would fuck a band in the blink of an eye without a second thought, and continues to do so.
Pay your rent Hilly, You have been ripping bands off for years you should have a pile of cash stashed away by now.
Hilly you are a bad business man and a Douche Bag.
CBGB's is a festering shithole.
my band played CBGBs last year. we brought in a lot of people. some of my friends watched as the doorman, for their group of 4 people there to see my band, only marked down 2 next to our band name. i assume they were doing this all night. explains why we got paid shit even though we had a big crowd. they suck.
pianos is good, money-wise.
I'm not in the bar-music biz or the blog biz, but I gotta say that I can't understand how anybody can book an event without also taking responsibility for payment. The Underrated guys should have had cash in pocket as a backup plan - just saying "gee, sorry, we feel bad you got screwed" seems inadequate if they were the middleman between bands and venue.
Amen, bklynd. I'd be pissed at both the Annex and the band manager. While it was bad that the Annex didn't pay, the person who brought over the band should've taken responsibility. Anyone who's worked for more than five minutes in this business already learned the hard way how to protect themselves and their bands. If a place is offering a screwy deal, then DON'T PERFORM THERE. This is why the quality of CBGB's bands, in general, suck. Knowledgeable, street-wise managers can sniff out rats, so they simply never play there. Only fools unwittingly perform at places that screw musicians, and apparently fools also have little talent.
Word to Bklynd!
Word. A post like this really makes me appreciate Chicago all the more. After doing shows myself for over a decade, though, I do have to wonder if these bloggers worked out the money deal (i.e. expenses the club expected to take out of the door money) ahead of time. The quoted post seems to indicate that they hadn't. Either way, it does suck to have a band play a show and then not be able to paay them. I've lost money on a few shows paaying groups out of my own pocket, but it was always because the draw was super low, not because the club intentionally stiffed me.
As for the DJing for free thing? She's right on the spot with her thoughts on that, in regards to shows.
i'm glad this place is closing!!!!
What are some good venues in NY for a rock/metal band 2 play? They are 18 year old guys who kno how 2 rock! They already played The loft, crannell and chance in Poughkeepsie.